Quality Control?
ledhead
Posts: 1,586
I just purchased "Kostia for V5" and the only item that shows up in Smart Content is the shape. I found the materials under DAZ Studio Formats, but none of them are tagged as Materials.
Are any of these items checked before release? How can that be missed?
I was going to make some assumptions, but that is a no no, so I am holding my fingers in check.
There has got to be a better process done before content is released for sale.
How about a check sheet. People have been using them for years.
There have been several new items that I have been installing that are not set up correctly.
It is beginning to seem as though we are being used for the QC by filing bug reports.
I have not filed a bug report up to this point, but once I start I'm afraid I'll bombard them with this and that.
Felt like having a rant. I'm done for now.
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Comments
I wanted to start a similar thread.....I think vendors should download and install their products after they're in the store and not simply rely on testers before and DAZ for the final process.
They should check that all the files were put in the right place, and that the Metadata works.
If they don't understand Smart Content they should learn and test that their products show up properly where they're supposed to be.
If things don't work properly they should be mad as hell because it reflects not only on DAZ but on them as well.
Considering many of us don't even use the crappy CMS, then it's no surprise to find that many products don't have metadata or properly done metadata, as most of the vendors don't use the crap system either.
Didn't you get the memo? That's the way the world works in this modern era. Responsibility is apparently now a thing to be avoided at all costs. :-(
And it's nothing new at DAZ except that now they force us to use the bug reports.
i.e. Caveat emptor.
I feel it's only crappy for some because there is no right or wrong way to set things up. It's just set up however someone feels like it should be and there is no standard to go by.
It is actually a very helpful tool if the content is organized a certain way, not this way and that. I read that there was a thread on this at one time, but it didn't come to a very good conclusion and only a select few were involved.
It needs to be addressed once again with the help of those who have a good working knowledge of how the content works and those who are well organized, not saying that a person could not do both. There needs to be a better understanding of how it works and how it needs to be utilized.
But this is a whole other subject. Lets at least get the crappy stuff to work right, then we can go from there.
I agree that someone who understands how it works needs to test it before it is up for sale.
Didn't you get the memo? That's the way the world works in this modern era. Responsibility is apparently now a thing to be avoided at all costs. :-(
And it's nothing new at DAZ except that now they force us to use the bug reports.
i.e. Caveat emptor.
I think DAZ still has a lot on their plate, but that is no excuse for turning out a product that has not been tested. I have no idea the time involved in getting everything set up properly, but I do know it only takes a minute or two to see if it works or not.
I feel your pain. It is a rare treat to install a product that actually has complete and accurate metadata. Sometimes I write bug reports. Other times I just sigh and fix the metadata myself.
Redacted
Georgina Hair materials do not work at all. The materials are there (no metadata), but when selecting a material the texture does not change. How frustrating that you pay for this stuff and a large percentage does not work correctly.
Hello DAZ. I should not have to file a bug report, especially under an email address I never use because your system does not recognize a Road Runner email address, I should be able to purchase content and it work as advertised. I mean it is advertised that it works isn't it?
Is there small print somewhere that says there is no guarantee any of the content purchased at Digital Art Zone will work as expected?
How frustrating.
Edited to add:
At least Georgina Hair for Genesis works properly.
I don't even use the system for categorizing/tagging specific items, I only use metadata to find the basics in Smart Content (and pray it works however it's supposed to in Shaping and Parameters, Lights and Cameras).
I can't even imagine going through a categorization/tagging process unless I can actually find the product to begin with.
There is a standard. There WAS a standard. Unfortunately it appears none of the DAZ staff read it, and there were a number of community members, myself included, who were chomping at the bit to help DAZ get the metadata strightened out. The collaboration turned into a great big stinking pile of poop TWICE.
What I see coming through the store nowadays makes my eyes water. I honestly don't have words for the poor quality / consistency of the metadata. I develop all my own metadata now for every new product I install.
If only DAZ had setup some kind of community sharing / contribution mechanism - as they were advised NUMEROUS TIMES - we wouldn't have been in this mess. I don't even bother filing bug reports anymore because it is obvious to me the team has no idea what they are doing. For example: they are creating separate products with separate metadata for the different installers, batch renaming installation files which screws up the assets names and installation paths, and typing/categorizing the assets in a seemingly random manner with no consistency whatsoever, some assets may or may not be included in product metadata (e.g. labels, PZ2, MC6) and may or may not be categorized only to appear in Unassigned when you search for newly installed products.
I really love DIM and recognize the effort that has gone into preparing the installers. However, we've had the opportunity to sort out the metadata for over 18 months and the quality is getting worse.
EDIT: two screenshots below illustrating some of the issues.
I am sorely sorely pissed about this whole metadata thing.
Since I am devoted to "Saint Categories form Content Library" I haven't problem with this things. Less clicks to do anything, less clicks to go anywhere in my content folders. Very useful the tutorial for metadata. I only need a tool for repair bad references for duf format.
Just an update:
Kostia for V5 has been updated so the materials now have metadata and work in the Smart Content pane.
Redacted
You got fast service! Two metadata bug reports that I turned in in November 2012 have just finally been assigned to someone to work on them. I'd long ago given up and fixed it myself. If you read some of the bug reports, you will see that even some of the metadata "fixes" still have problems or create new problems. Of course, some of them actually do fix the metadata, too, which is great. Cridgit's tutorials taught me how to make metadata, and that is one of the most useful DAZ skill I have developed.
I just got logged out replying to the latest posts. Ain't it something getting close to a year (10 months now), the site is still has log in and log out problems.
I'm not sure what all I had written before being logged out, but here it goes.
I actually did not file a bug report. Either someone else filed it or someone that read this thread filed it for me or someone from DAZ read the thread. How ever it happened, it is now fixed and as Cridgit said, 9999 to go.
There are actually 11,875 products available for sale, but of course some of them are tutorials and other items that would not have Metadata.
That's all I remember. I know there was more, but oh well.
Just an observation....
I started using the DIM a couple of weeks ago. Thought it would be interesting to try. After installing a few items I noticed under the "Installed" tab that there was a column titled "Smart". Some of the installed items had a check in the box, some didn't. After checking the DS Smart Content, I figured out it the check mark was for items that had Smart Content available. Over the last couple of weeks I've checked DIM and noticed multiple updates for stuff I've already installed. As I've installed these new updates, smart content has show up for alot of them. I'm thinking that although slow, smart content is coming out for items, just not as fast as we'd like. I've had alot of product updates the last two weeks that are now showing in Smart Content. Then again, some aren't. It will probably take a long time to get everything into Smart Content. Until then, I'm using the plain ole Content tab in DS.
As with all things DAZ and with the military, we must "Hurry Up and Wait".
Some of the items that are marked as having Smart Content in the DIM table do not actually have Metadata because it was not set up correctly. I am sure they are trying their best to get everything working, but it is going to be a long process as you stated. Being there is so much content, many other issues and new content coming online everyday, they probably have their work cut out for them. But as I stated, it only takes a minute or two to make sure the content installs as it should.
Another update:
Georgina Hair (for Generation 4) has been fixed.
Only 9,998 to go!
The problem with metadata is that there are no standards for how things are organized or categorized. That makes QA hard, since there's no way to know exactly how each and every customer has their smart content organized.
How right you are. That is why there needs to be a thread discussing the subject with some finality that the majority can agree with.
Needs updated:
Victoria 5 Elite Ponytail works with Genesis but has no Metadata for the Hair or Materials.
Yeah, Smart content doesn't work much on mine either... Is there a way to just set the content bar up like in DAZ3?
Smart Content can be an extremely useful tool if everything worked as it should.
DAZ is addressing the problem of the items not having Smart Content.
I have mentioned having a problem with two items and they were fixed within a day.
I just added another item in the list. We'll see how long it takes to address that item.
I have no idea about DS3 as I am new to the 3D world. Maybe someone else could answer that question for you.
There ARE some standards. DAZ has published them http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/dson_spec/format_description/metadata/categories/start and
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/dson_spec/format_description/metadata/content_types/start
The problems I see are:
1) DAZ has not updated many old items to have any metadata at all.
2) DAZ changed the default categories and and content types after creating metadata for some products, so now we have inconsistency and confusion.
3) DAZ is not consistent in following their own published default categories and content types when they create new metadata, so inconsistency and confusion are increasing rather than decreasing.
4) Even though there are defined default categories and content types, there is no document explaining how to determine what items fall into what categories. What makes an item an Actor vs. Prop? Wardrobe vs. Accessory? Released metadata does not have any consistency from which to even infer an answer to these questions.
5) DAZ continues to create new metadata with glaring errors and omissions, making materials not show up in Smart Content, etc. This bad metadata could not possibly have passed any test before release.
I'm sure it is a daunting task to get this all straightened out, but I wish I saw more progress in the positive direction, instead on continuing product releases with messed up metadata. My background is software development for a government contractor. QA and testing are very serious checkpoints in that environment. I guess that is why I cringe so much at the mess of metadata the comes through DAZ "QA". I would have given up on "Smart Content" long ago, if I hadn't learned how to fix it myself and create it for products that don't have it. I thank cridgit for his metadata tutorials. The really sad thing is that when bad metadata is released, every single user has to either suffer without Smart Content until DAZ gets around to fixing it, or fix metadata himself. Now you have hundreds or thousands of people wasting time fixing metadata instead of one person at DAZ doing it right one time.
Um, thank you cridgit for the metadata tutes!
Links would be helpful?
One thing I"m especially curious about and wonder if someone has an answer. Even without metadata some folders (data non-data) seem to have a special relationship to certain tabs. Others don't. Is there any info on that aspect around?
Update:
Victoria 5 Elite Ponytail Hair has been updated and the Metadata now works.
That was fixed in less than 12 hours I believe.
Thank You DAZ for paying attention. We all appreciate it when you listen.
CMS is useful for those of us that make content, free or for sale so it's really not crappy in those terms.
I do agree with the others. If you go through the Content folder you will find material presets hither and yawn. I know some folks like the idea of the folder structure being so allowing but for the end user it can be a nightmare, esp if they are not using Smart Content. DAZ really needs to get on the ball and make default folders a must for new items and perhaps have the merchants update their own previously made products to put them all in more uniform areas. Generation 4 stuff in Gen 4 folder, ALL Genesis products in the various sub folders within that that folder. I'm glad I got my Smart Content issue solved, it's really helpful for the most part finding stuff. My one itch with that is that things like "Shoes" and then "Footwear" well, one category should be used instead of having two areas for that sort of stuff. YUK! Messy!
Redacted
Well I sure wish you would reconsider. Is there any way you might PM me showing a layout of the way you would like to see things organized? I would like to know how it compares to the way I do it.
If not, that's okay, I am happy with the way I do it. It sometimes helps to see how others do it because it may show you something you may not have thought of.
I honestly believe DAZ wants to make the customers happy and are probably going to be more open to suggestions. I really think those who want t o contribute to give their ideas as to how they would like to see content organized. We need another thread for that.
I appreciate your input cridgit. Thank you!