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"Only the base resolution FBX mesh with rigging is exportable from DS . (No subd)"
It is the cloth that are important. The figure animations are only cloth-hangers. The fabric and the fashion are in high resolution and simulated in Marvelous Designer on hi-res obj avatars. Imported to MD and exported to C4D with MDD.
Yes, that was in reply to your comment on "tweaking" in C4D . Certainly you can tweak camera (camera morph tag is a fantastic tool), object animations etc... but you're not going to be tweaking the [i]character[/i] itself in C4D unless you plan to go back to DS yet again and re-export obj/mdd .
If you are simulating on high res obj avatars in md - this implies you're using obj/mdd for import as well...which means you're not tweaking the character in C4D
You can actually simulate with the "lower" poly proxy fbx in md . The benefit is faster calulations, but if you have complex garments, some that have thin layers close to skin, it might show problems when used on the higher poly obj/mdd. But for other garment setups it can be completely fine
I realize for you the focus is the garments, but the base mesh G/G2/G3/G8 leave a lot to be desired. Have a look at the "blocky" ears for example . But even native C4D subd can smooth those over, they just don't look as good as DS's internal subd
"the base mesh G/G2/G3/G8 leave a lot to be desired"
About 20K resolution for the figures is ok for animation. Using good 4K PBR Substance Designer texture. Look at this 19K woman (including the hair!) at Turbosquid for example,
https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/female-rigged-3d-model/1041167
Also I have a lot of options in C4D. I can replace the whole figure with another hi-res one (=making the org fig invisible) if I choose to using the surface-deformer. Or I can replace just the ears in the whole animation or just during close ups..manipulate the camera..you can do almost anything.
The main reason that an animation not is looking good is not figure resolution but the motion itself- it is the motion that needs fine-adjustment IMO. Tweaking the movements are 90 % of the work
When will you admit that I know what I am doing? ;)
Yes for sure , camera tricks as suggested earlier, or some creative framing or editing . Many different ways to get to what you want in the end
That's actually what I use in C4D for a lower poly collision mesh (the fbx version, but hidden) with selection tags . For hair, dynamics within C4D . That's why I suggested keeping the FBX mesh, not just bones and motion. It's also serves as a check for the motion validity, which you cannot do with bones only fbx .
Yes, that's my point - now we are talking about motionbuilder and retargetting again :) It's 10x easier to make the motion look proper in mobu compared to DS. Especially if you need to show the feet and floor :)
for another possible retargetting tool, an older package (free now) called "dance-forms" by credo interactive seems a bit crude now, but was probably pretty solid in its day.
I don't think I can link it here, but google "life-forms bvh" and find "credo interactive's" main page, then go to the downloads page. There are also a bunch of dance-motions in there in their native format that can be exported if you needed them.
there are a couple of youtube videos on using it for re-mapping various formats and figures between characters/rigs including to DS characters (does batch conversions too).
it's creeky, but possibly a way to get past a particular workflow problem.
Yeah, DS BVH export and import are a mess. Animate2 doesn't know about any characters past Genesis1... sigh
e.g. if you try BVH export a V4 or genesis1 in a T-pose from DS and look at it in any other tool... broken. Then try import that same BVH that DS just exported back to the same character... friggin mess.
I wish you well on your conversion quest(s). Let us know what you learn if you find any magic bullets. You are clearly savvy enough to be taken seriously on the 'Technical Help' or 'Das Studio Software' forums, and I'd bet you get some higher end folks in there than in a newbies forum. (not referencing @prd0's contributions here, just that there are some sharp folks that probably don't frequent this forum...)
cheers,
--ms
Thank you but I have found a way that works for me, I merely point out that,
"since it is possible it should be made easier"
I do not mean myself, but the others-
It would be to cruel to let everybody suffer like I had to do.
I'm laughing out loud here... I understand completely! I believe I've learned those same lessons the hard way as well.
My opinion:
Most folks don't realize that Daz Studio, as a software application is hardly 'free'. In fact, because it seems so capable on the outside (pretty brochure pages and pictures), and seems to have *some* capability for BVH, FBX, Collada, Alembic, etc., many of us 'buy' into the tool, thinking it is somehwhat complete and compatible with "industry standard tools...", when really, most of those functions are done halfway, and/or incompletely (relative to current standards), and very seldom maintained to current industry standards, or even their own product offerings (e.g. Animate2 doesn't work natively w G2, G3, G8, Gxxx...). Don't even start on the state of the so-called documentation. Thank the gods for the good and generous folks in the forums.
Like high-fructose corn syrup, DS feels good to eat, but is generally without much substance or nutrition when all is said and done, and worse, becomes a place-holder for better foods (tools) that we didn't choose because we trusted this company to keep the promises implied by their 'brochures'.
Granted, there are a few noble hardcore users that have beaten this tool into getting amazing results (many of the gallery submissions are nothing short of brilliant), but the forums are thick with frustrated users at every skill level, asking simple questions that are constantly met with gracious souls that patiently repeat (yet again) the various workarounds required to guide them through the collection of oddities called Daz Studio.
My time and energy spent working around Daz Studio 'almost got it right' features is usually more than my time creating outputs, and my *time* spent using this tool and researching workarounds is hardly 'free', contrary to what the Daz Corporation seems to believe.
To be sure, *nobody* is forcing me to use this resource, so I continue to do so at *my own* choice, economic/personal benefit, and peril, but I have no illusions as to the so-called 'free'ness of this software tool. If asked, I would recommend any new user seriously consider choosing Blender over DS if starting out today, and use DS as a content exporter for the brilliant work of the DAZ Published Artists and their fine products and support.
Again, so the forum mods completely understand, this is merely my humble opinion, which shouldn't be a problem with the current TOS.
(end of rant).
@vintorix, I hope you find good tools for your efforts, and if the good parts of Daz Studio work for you, better yet.
--ms
(edits to clarify and typos)
ha ha mindsong, very well written! Still, I think you are a bit unfair of Daz Studio. When it come to import-export non of the other so called pro programs is any better, 3ds max, Maya, C4D, and even Marvelous Designer you name it. With each new versions, if some import-export function starts to work other stop to work. Each vendor low-prioritize the import-export functions.
fair enough... We would probably agree that the term 'standards' is a noble goal, but certain to be somewhat ambiguous and interpreted differently by each developer... as goes with all humans.
I only wish all of these vendors could get a basic version of each core standard working and maintained. The OBJ specification is one that seems to be surviving the test of time. All others in 3D, not-so-much. Image and sound formats are much more likely to work - so why not 3D standards? urg.
I suppose in fairness to Daz Studio and its developers, someone at the top of their development ladder is letting some very basic and ciritical features slide in trade for things that many of us may think are 'nice', but not nearly as useful to our workflows as a simple industry standard BVH importer that actually works. I'm certain that compared to IRAY integration and tuning, the BVH code is quite simple... and FBX is so important to data interchange that for DS be taken seriously, they should probably rethink their ToDo list every-so-often.
Yeah, DS is probably more useful than I let on up above in my rant, and probably as good/bad as many of the other tools out there, but it's hardly 'free', and *soooo* close to being a *good* tool that it hurts to watch it flounder like this...
cheers, and best wishes,
--ms
OBJ is a simple static mesh of vertex positions, non even compressed, so you could argue it's difficult to get that "wrong" .
FBX is the closest thing to a rigged industry standard that supports many features - bones and animation, multiple takes & layers , morph targets (yes even from Daz, but only in "base" resolution because that' s all they allow you to export for FBX), metadata, audio, textures , poses, probably a hundred other things - but that complexity is the main reason why it can be difficult to parse it properly. The specs gets updated every year, sometimes with new features. If you export a newer FBX with features that are not supported by the importer - you're going to get problems. Also FBX is controlled by Autodesk - so there can be some competing interests at play. It would be "safer" for everyone if an open format like collada really caught on, but it hasn't
For image and sound - same thing. The more complex, the more potential for problems. More complex compressed audio like HE-AAC v2 won't play on some systems that support the simpler LC-AAC. You might think you're safe with an image format like PNG. But it can have metadata such as a GAMA tag, which can make it appear differently in different programs. But simple uncompressed bitmaps are almost always interpreted correctly.
For DS, FBX is the only format that currently works for import/export motion, including G3/G8, if the FBX is properly mapped . The mesh can be messed up on import depending on FBX version, (FBX support is far from perfect in DS) but at least the motion survives intact from programs like motionbuilder and other programs
Now if DS supported LOD and subd for FBX (these are features supported by FBX for many years), then some people wouldn't even need DS except maybe to load models (unless a .duf loader is developed). I'm not saying it's purposeful
, but I can see why they would want to place limitations or control on their export formats to hold some resemblance of IP control . But some people involved in other VFX pipelines would be happy to skip DS altogether. Maybe they don't want to be just a store for assets and skipy outfits (ok , throw a few demons and dragons in too - j/k ). Or maybe DS 5 will blow everyone's socks off
Actually I owe pdr0 an apology. If you save the plotted skeleton to a FBX file from Motionbuilder you can import this one to DS.
You se nothing in the viewport, but if you turn on the joint editor the skeleton appear. Now you can "Create aniblock from Studio Keyframes" and save it.
This aniblock will work with G8F. The result is exactly the same as with importing the BVH but you spare yourself the hassle of the broken mapping editor!
To my defense he did not explained the process exactly (saving as a pose don't help) but anyway! :)
In my defense I did explain it the DS part. Read my very first post in this thread
I said you save as a "pose preset" . This is not the same thing as a pose. The pose preset has an animated range option. When you merge the pose preset, the keyframes are baked. I don't really use aniblocks but you can convert them if you wanted to , as you did.
You are supposed to retarget in motionbuilder. ie. If your bvh motion had problems, or was from a very different skeleton - you "fix" them in mobu, that's part of the retargeting process. If you setup your solver parameters correctly, a lot of the work is automatic. It saves you a lot of time. Also if you setup T-pose for the characterization properly, this will fix many things, or conversely if you don't setup things properly, errors will cascade. In your video, the hands and digits had problems - If you were referring to the same bvh, and got the "same" results you say - this suggests your pose was not ideal before characterization, or you did not setup the finger solving correctly. In the end, WYSIWYG in motionbuilder is what you get in DS, which is the whole point of going there.
For motionbuilder, yes you have to plot to skeleton, but this is one of those basic things that you assume everyone knows... Yes , there is a learning curve, but there is a learning curve for everything. Trying to clean mocap , or fix bvh retargetting issues will take you 10x as long in DS. Realistically, probably much longer.
Sorry, it appeared from your comments like you had it working. If you were having problems , you could have just asked for clarification about specific steps :)
But pdr0, I DID try to save as a pose preset but it did not work for me. You said, "G3,G8 have locked nodes by default - you have to unlock nodes and remove rotation limits on the target, then merge the pose preset"- It is possible that it will work if I do that -which I have not tried yet- but it is unclear, do I have to manually unlock ALL the nodes? And what do you mean with merge?
Also don't forget that BVH import also work the result is exactly the same. It is only that it is less work importing with your method. Still, by saving as aniblock there is even less work (you don't have to unlock) so all is well that ends well.
"Always assume that the person you instruct is 7 year old"
"Sorry, it appeared from your comments like you had it working. If you were having problems , you could have just asked for clarification about specific steps :)"
But I did not have problem it worked! Also you kept saying that I should use Motionbilder albeit I said from the very beginning that I used Motionbuilder. That you did not seemed to hear what I was saying was annoying. You were not clear and precise enough.
Edit: I found a script "mcjunlockallbones" that unlock the transforms of all bones in the selected figure. Using this I can still not get it to work by saving as a pose preset.
I think now this matter is closed. I still thank you without you I would not have found the current solution which is the best IMO.
Please be a little reasonable
You never gave me any indication that you had problems! You said you "When will you admit that I know what I am doing", and "found a way that works for you" - I don't see a question asking for clarification there. On a message board you ask specific questions, you obviously are familiar with some 3d software and concepts. It's not the other way around - I can't post a 200 page book here covering every concept, like what is a "pose". You would ask specific questions like "how do I save a pose preset" .
To save a pose preset, select the FBX - file, save as, pose preset
You don't need a script to unlock nodes. Right click the root bone in the hierarchy , select children. (on most figures it will be the hip bone). This means all bones are selected. Edit, figure, limits, rotation OFF . While the selection is still active, edit, figure, lock, unlock selected nodes .
To "merge" anything in DS - file, merge, select whatever. In this case it's the pose preset you saved earlier from the FBX
The results are only the "same" (if you mean the same problems such as in your video) if you did nothing in mobu or didn't use it properly to retarget. Are all you using it for is bone names and mapping as a BVH "proxy" ? You have a powerful useful piece of software and using like 1% of it's capabilities. It's like parking a ferrari in the garage and never driving it . Or using MD and making a square cloth pattern for your final result. Or using C4D and rendering a cube primitive as your final masterpiece. You have to properly retarget in mobu - this means solving and fixing the problems like foot sliding, gimbal lock, and bad motion . A lot of the solving is automatic if you set it up properly, and there are tools designed specifically to address those types of problems (that's the main reason for mobu's existence!)
pdr0, "Right click the root bone in the hierarchy , select children. (on most figures it will be the hip bone). This means all bones are selected. Edit, figure, limits, rotation OFF . While the selection is still active, edit, figure, lock, unlock selected nodes"
Thank you, that works better than the script. But only if you export from the Python Tools menu in MB using FBX version 2014/2015 and not the normal save from Character Controls/File/ Save Character Animation!
Then you can just double-click on the pose or aniblock
Yes, from the python menu. If you are using newer versions, it's usually better to save older version. Remember I asked what version you were using ? There was a reason for that.
In my experience, FBX 2013 binary is the most compatible for all programs , even when exporting from DS . It causes the least headaches , epecially if you are working with other people / other programs . Morph targets seem to be preserved better in other programs. (e.g. they would be under pose morph in C4D, but you can animate them in mobu as well)
In older DS versions , maybe 4.8 something, the FBX mesh actually imported correctly using this method. The benefit is you could double check the motion (2 figures are superimposed). Something changed with the FBX importer that it looks messed up when importing (although the motion is intact) . But since you have access to C4D, you can check it there, it imports it correctly still.
FBX 2013 binary? Ok I shall remember that