Cloth Sim Magic

IceDragonArt

I love this program.  I too am using it more and more in my scenes.  I'm only sorry I didn't pick it up sooner.

ebergerly

Weird...even with SubD level 1 it's like the sphere isn't there. No collision. 

 

Ruphuss

why isnt this to buy at the Daz company ?

DaremoK3

ebergerly:

That is not due to mesh topology.  That is definitely a bug that is prevalent in the last two releases of VWD.  It is actually more serious with an attached sub-mesh such as your button if your button was low enough to come in contact with the collision influence.

I reproduced your example utilizing four versions of VWD going back to 408.2976 which was the last public build before the new additions you see in the last two versions (the last being the Dynamic Deformation fix that works how it worked in 408.2976 - that it can be used without the Static Simulation button engaged).  One version is the beta I was testing before public release which started the failures for this type of draping, and serious lock-ups, cloth disappearances, and even crashes to desktop if utilizing this style of drape with attached sub-meshes (buttons, in my case).

I apologize, because I missed this in my testing, and it seems to be localized to this style of drape.  It is same for other static collision meshes, including a figure as a static collision mesh, and there appears to be no bearing on topology as an instigator.  Base, and sub-d at one iteration both yield same results for all collision meshes.

If normal vertical drape on the Y axis is performed, there doesn't seem to be any errors, but more testing is needed before all variables can be ruled out.

*** Animated GIFs Success - Finally - YAY!!! ***

* Even with sub-d 1 - collision errors:

* Severe collision errors with attached sub-mesh:

* Correct collision - even with low poly collision mesh, and sub-mesh buttons on cloth in version 408:

 

* EDIT:  Just to be clear, this is attributed to the main VWD software, and not the DS bridge...

 

*** SOLVED  -  Images Edit:  These are supposed to be animated Gifs, but don't seem to be working.  Anyone know how to get animated Gifs working in the forums like ebergerly's on the previous page?  - SOLVED ***

Toonces

So...basically you're saying to perform the drape vertically, rather than diagonally or from the side? Doing the latter may result in error?

Luckily most drapes are vertical due to gravity. But I suppose this means I need to be careful with the wind button since it might create more of a side-drape.

BradCarsten

how does this compare to blender's cloth sim? 

ebergerly

I very much prefer VWD to Blenders cloth for the following reasons: The Scale feature in VWD, which is hugely useful for fitting clothes, is vastly superior to the Blender equivalent "shrink wrap". Shrink Wrap merely pulls all vertices in to a fixed distance from the collision mesh, instead of stretching the cloth like VWD. IMO that makes Blenders shrink wrap virtually useless. Also VWD is integral to Studio, so you dont have to jump outside to do cloth sims on rigged characters, especially since transfers of rigged characters to Blender is so limited. There are other reasons but IMO those are the big ones.

DaremoK3

I was mistaken regarding the Y axis drape.  Going between four versions had my head spinning, so the results I was referring to were in the beta.

For public release 522.3630 (the latest), even a static Y axis drape has a failure rate, and topology does come in to play with this version.  A no sub-d base sphere yielded the result of the cloth mesh completely passing through to the ground plane as if the sphere was not there.  At sub-d iterations 1 and 2 the sphere did have some collision, but with a lot of anomalies, and most draping sessions ending in VWD locking-up and a force kill needed.

There is a huge difference between static draping, and animated draping.  With static, results were same as ebergerlys', where the collision mesh was treated as not there to barely any collisions based on topology.  For animated drapes, I had 100% failure rates with cloth that had sub-meshes attached (buttons, etc) that resulted in cloth mesh flying off into space when buttons came into contact with collision object.  Surprising enough though, I have completed animations sent back to host (DS) with the full cloth failures.  It is amusing to watch inside of Studio...

 

Regarding animated GIFs for the forums here - Does anyone have any suggestions to get them working?

I even tried to link them from tinypic_com, but I could not get any uploaded except for one that was only a thumbnail with no workable URL.

ebergerly

I upload my GIF's to giphy.com, then put the link they give you into the Images link area.

Regarding the results, I got the same as you when I only had the cloth with button and did a simple drape with no collision object in the scene. The cloth started to drape then BAM it flew off into whereever and left me with a blank VWD screen and it locked up VWD and Studio. That caused me to add a sphere, thinking it needed a collision object, and that seemed to help. But then it failed to collide with the sphere. 

ebergerly

But it's strange, I never have a problem draping an OBJ or conforming clothing on a G3. That always works fine (BTW, everything is static...no animations). 

DaremoK3

bradrg:

I saw the hooded cape/cloak you are working on in Blender, and it looks fantastic.  It looks like you have a good handle on how Blender's cloth sim works.

I'll elaborate a little more on what ebergerly said above.  First, he makes a great point about using VWD vs Shrinkwrap in Blender.  I am a shrinkwrap junkie, but I have been using VWD as a much better replacement for cloth in that context.  It really doesn't correlate to the cloth sim, but it has merit, and is definitely worth the mention.

The key differences between the sims are dynamic vs static, and I am not referring to static draping vs animated draping, but the ability to interact with the cloth sim dynamically in VWD.  With Blender, the closest thing possible would be static pinning, and animated, or real time hooking.  But, those parameters are statically linked to the cloth sim stack (can not be added removed dynamically), and all functionality is lost/broken with any changes (such as entering Edit Mode, or changing something for cloth sim or in the modifier stack).

I actually used the Edit mode change as a complete cloth reset in a Blender addon I am working on.  It is a quick and dirty way to reset, but also a crutch of Blender's cloth sim where one can not make changes without killing a sim.

* EDIT:  I forgot that I wanted to touch on an example where Blender falls short in the cloth sim usage by way of the Sewing Springs parameters.  It was a good idea, but falls short of no dynamic changes allowed while sim is running.  I tried to work out a way to weld the vertices real-time, but it just can't be done with how the cloth sim works, and all editing has to be done outside the sim when it is finished, regardless if cached or not.

*** EDIT 2:  RAMWolff just linked to a page that resembles your cloak in the Blender thread, and in VWD you could reproduce anyone of those images pulling the cloth around into place with, or without the help of Wind, Forcefield, and Gravity.  You can't do that in Blender.  You can add Wind, or Forcefield, but then you are at the mercy of what the sim produces.  Of course, that is not to say you can't do post sim work such as Sculpting Mode, or Proportional editing in Blender.  It is just more quicker inside of VWD, and more precise...

DaremoK3

ebergerly:

Thank you for the GIF link.  It is blocked for me right now on my Puppy Linux due to the HTTPS, so I will try again tomorrow after I prep Windows to be online worthy with an updated browser.

 

bradrg:

Here is an example using VWD for dynamically sculpting the hood and cape beyond the initial animated drape.

mindsong

The dynamics are great, and I like your NPR style. Nicely done.

--ms

DaremoK3

Thank you, mindsong.

But, I can't take credit for the NPR style.  That is all DAZ Studio 4.9 default Cartoon Preview.  Just screen-shots...

It's one of the things I love about DS.

ebergerly

So do we need to report the issues with VWD, or does Gerald already know about it?