Morphing Primitives by maclean, DS companion files - what is the point of that hierarchy?

Kattey

DAZ Studio companion files for Morphing Primitives are installing not in the same folder where main Poser installer places files, and not even in a subfolder for it, like current Genesis stuff does with "Materials", but into a completely separate DS folder, disjoined from main installer whatsoever.
So to load primitives and apply materials in DS you have to load them from Poser runtime and then browse into that completely separate folder (which is usually quite far away) to just apply DS mats, wasting time and extra clicks.

I though we were past that clumsy hierarchy once DS2 (which couldn't read DS matposes from poser-mapped folders) was over, as even DS 3 can read DS matposes when they are in the same folder as pz2 matposes. Won't it be better to make default folder into Maclean\Everyday\MorphingPrimitives\Materials (*) where pz2 files for poser wood, paint, stone, etc, matposes would already be installed, so the number of extra clicks will be diminished and materials are right here, where primitives themselves are? pz2s might not be a real pz2s if mt5s (shouldn't it be mt6 for Poser 6?) are more preferable, but just dummies, - DS3 only needs a name of the poser file to autosubstitute ds mats.

Yeah, sure I can (and will) move everything manually, but it is a such a clumsy structure, it just strikes me as very outdated approach. What was a point for it if the lowest DS for which is was made is DS 3 which can read DS matposes from poser-mapped folders?

(*) Or appropriate \Pose folder if Poser 6 can't read materials pz2 from Props folders - which is still closer in clicks/time than separate DS folder as it is within same runtime at least.

maclean

The extra DS files you're talking about aren't companion files. They're DS Shader Presets to apply the various materials to the primitives. The equivalent files are also in the Poser Materials folder, and they're in .mt5 format because that's what Poser uses for single shaders which apply to any material. .Mc6 is for multiple materials.

The companion files (ie. .DSA) are in the Poser props folder, so that when you load a prop from the Poser directory into DS, it loads with the correct materials.

So what you're really asking (I think) is for the Poser materials to have .DSA companion files. Is that right? Which would mean making a separate folder of .pz2s with .DSAs. That can be done, but I tend to avoid using .pz2s for the simple reason that they don't work in older versions of Poser without having a figure on the scene, and that tends to confuse a lot of people who think the presets don't work.

mac

Kattey

Well, ok, maybe I got it confused which installer installed what, but I'm still not understanding why those DS shader matposes had to be installed so far away from main folder with primitives, like we are still under DS2.

So what you’re really asking (I think) is for the Poser materials to have .DSA companion files. Is that right?
Basically what I'm asking is to have DS shader matposes in a subfolder of the main folder with or closer to primitives. In worst case, in a related \Pose folder of the same runtime (if it is important for Poser installation, although I think it uses Materials, not Pose folder), along with dummy poser matposes so we can apply DS mats quicker.

For example \Props\Maclean\otherfolder\otherfolder\materials which is located next to the folder which loads props themselves, so I don't have to browse far away to differently mapped DS folder for just load a DS shader.

but I tend to avoid using .pz2s for the simple reason that they don’t work in older versions of Poser without having a figure on the scene, and that tends to confuse a lot of people who think the presets don’t work.

They can be zero files, DS just needs a properly named file to make a substitute. I usually just double pngs and rename them as pz2s. It didn't work this time by some reason though, and I really dislike the idea that I'll have to put DS shader mats into DS mapped folders in a completely different place from the folder which loads props.

And isn't this product made for Poser 6? I'd thought people with earlier Poser versions had to expect pz2/mt5 not working properly in those earlier versions anyway?

(By pz2 here and everywhere I mean poser 4/5 matposes which would just apply texture and texture settings. I think those are pz2 extension, not 100% sure right now)

Kattey

So what I just did was following: I installed DS shaders into a dummy folder. Moved props themselves (with dsa props versions, I assume from DS companion installer) from Props\Maclean\Everyday\MorphingProps to just Props\MorphingProps (I organize that way). Within Props\MorphingProps I added a \Materials folder. In dummy folder with dsa shaders I deleted all something.dsa.pngs. I moved all *.dsa DS shaders from dummy folder into Props\MorphingProps\Materials folder. Then I copied to this folder all pngs from where poser materials (mt5s) were located (because for that thing to work only extensions should be different), doubled those pngs and renamed doubles as *.pz2.
As a result, the Poser-mapped structure in both DS3 and DS4 looks that way Props\MorphingProps\ and Props\MorphingProps\Materials but DS shaders both load from Props\MorphingProps\Materials in DS3 and DS4 as dsas, and I use no DS-mapped structure to load DS shaders.

maclean

Kattey said:

Basically what I'm asking is to have DS shader matposes in a subfolder of the main folder with or closer to primitives. In worst case, in a related \Pose folder of the same runtime (if it is important for Poser installation, although I think it uses Materials, not Pose folder), along with dummy poser matposes so we can apply DS mats quicker.

For example \Props\Maclean\otherfolder\otherfolder\materials which is located next to the folder which loads props themselves, so I don't have to browse far away to differently mapped DS folder for just load a DS shader.

And isn't this product made for Poser 6? I'd thought people with earlier Poser versions had to expect pz2/mt5 not working properly in those earlier versions anyway?

(By pz2 here and everywhere I mean poser 4/5 matposes which would just apply texture and texture settings. I think those are pz2 extension, not 100% sure right now)

PS. had to rename wood.dsa and others like that into *.ds to make them work with dummy pz2s. Kind of puzzled.

Right. I see what you're saying. This isn't something I've ever done, but I can see the advantage for DS users of having extra materials in the same folders as the props. However, for Poser users, it means they have a lot of extra files which they don't need. So it's good for some, not so good for others.

Thinking about it, what I can maybe do for my next product is include the extra .pz2s/.dsas in the DS-only installer. They would install in the Poser props directory, but Poser users wouldn't need to download them. I'll have to check with QA and make sure that's ok.

Re formats and Poser versions - Poser 6 stiull requires a figure in the scene to apply a .pz2 MAT to a prop. I'm not sure what version it changed in. I jumped from P6 to P9.

I'm also not sure why you had to rename the .dsa to .ds. I did it slightly differently. I moved the Poser .mt5s into the props folder, renamed them .pz2, then dragged the .dsas from the DS folder to the Poser props folder and it works fine.

Edit - Just saw your reply. Seems like we ended up doing the same thing.

mac

Kattey

Maclean, I deleted my post-scriptum, because I just forgot that my default shader preset was ignoring texture replacement. I posted a corrected version of evens in a separate post.

However, for Poser users, it means they have a lot of extra files which they don’t need. So it’s good for some, not so good for others.

But what I mean, if you already have a separate DS companion installer, all you need is just change the folder hierarchy for DS shaders and add dummy pz2 files and add all DS files into DS companion.
Poser people won't use DS Companion installer (so it won't mess with them) and DS users will install it anyway to get dsas for main props. So just putting shaders in a different structure will give a benefit of better organization, IMHO.

maclean

Kattey said:

As a result, the Poser-mapped structure in both DS3 and DS4 looks that way Props\MorphingProps\ and Props\MorphingProps\Materials but DS shaders both load from Props\MorphingProps\Materials in DS3 and DS4 as dsas, and I use no DS-mapped structure to load DS shaders.

Ok. That's a good system.

Assuming QA have no issues with this, for my next product I'll make a sub-folder of Props for the DS installer with any extra shaders/materials. But I'll also continue to include a separate DS folder of presets because I know many users like to have them.

Glad we got that cleared up, and thanks for the heads-up. It really isn't something I'd thought of, but it definitely could be useful.

mac

Kattey

Thinking about it, what I can maybe do for my next product is include the extra .pz2s/.dsas in the DS-only installer. They would install in the Poser props directory, but Poser users wouldn’t need to download them. I’ll have to check with QA and make sure that’s ok.

As far as I recall, when DS3 with that replacement feature was already out but before DS4/Genesis was fully out, a lot of Platinum Club items for Gen4, which almost always supply DS specific matposes, stopped to have a full separate installer for DS, and either had them 100% combined with Poser installer (reasoning that ds/dsa matposes are so small they won't take much space for poser users) or had just a small DS specific installer which installed DS shaders/matposes into Poser-mapped main folder. Second option is more respecteful for Poser users and still comfortable for DS users. So I think - and hope - it will work for you :)

maclean

Kattey said:

Maclean, I deleted my post-scriptum, because I just forgot that my default shader preset was ignoring texture replacement. I posted a corrected version of evens in a separate post.

But what I mean, if you already have a separate DS companion installer, all you need is just change the folder hierarchy for DS shaders and add dummy pz2 files and add all DS files into DS companion.
Poser people won't use DS Companion installer (so it won't mess with them) and DS users will install it anyway to get dsas for main props. So just putting shaders in a different structure will give a benefit of better organization, IMHO.

Yep. That's what I figured. So the Poser users won't get a bunch of unwanted files.

Ignoring texture replacement? LOL. I can't count the number of times I've wondered why something wasn't working and it was because of a setting I'd changed and forgotten about.

mac

Eit - LOL. We keep cross-posting. Yes - Second option is better.

Kattey

Ignoring texture replacement? LOL. I can’t count the number of times I’ve wondered why something wasn’t working and it was because of a setting I’d changed and forgotten about.

Yeah, it is because I mostly use Elite Lana shader with different character textures, so it is sort of automated reaction ^_^""

I'm glad to be heard, Maclean :) You are the one of vendors who supported DS from the very start, and I greatly appreciate this.

MarcCCTx

MacLean
By the way, these are great, thank you! Toy time!

A request -- gears, lots and lots of matching gears, with different amounts of teeth.

Kerya

File placement or no file placement ... they jumped in my cart with no long thinking!
Thank you Maclean!

Kattey

I tried them and I have to agree - those are extremely useful little things. I especially like the wheel primitive - so much variety :)

hermana5

no idea as yet what i will do with them, but it's better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them! lol thanks