Geometry Tool bug - can anyone confirm?
mtl1
Posts: 1,507
Not sure if there's a problem with my install, but I think I stumbled into a pretty severe bug: If I load two identical figures and start hiding polygons or face groups on one figure, it will report them as 'hidden' on the other mesh as well. The viewport won't 'refresh' the figure -- showing the hidden polys -- until something forces it to refresh, such as hiding/unhiding the figure from the scene tab or by hiding/unhiding another set of polygons.
Another way to see replicate problem is to load one figure (ie. G3F), hide a few face groups, then load another G3F. The new G3F will have the *exact* same face groups hidden for some reason.
I thought it was a naming issue, but renaming the figures doesn't seem to help with the problem at all.
Can anyone confirm that this is a bug?
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Hm. This seems to extend to creating new surfaces too.
Yes I get the same thing using G8M both on hiding geometry & creating surfaces :(
Thank you for verifying, I'll create the bug report now
Same here, only it happens after I do the work on one G2F figure,
when I load a fresh G2F figure it has the same new surface: (bandaged hand)
And when I retexture that surface on the new G2F with it's skin, the first G2F gets retextured with it's skin:
And often, it locks up Studio as soon as I do anything to try and correct it..
It is an old bug I found some time ago, I made a bug report, never heard anything and then it was deleted. This is why I don't make bug reports anymore.
Yes it is old bug (already reported by users). And duplicated figure cause same problem . Then I could not modify geometry, only about duplicate figure.
I reported it, support said me, " it is expected , to avoid it, after edit geometry, You need to save as different figure once"
but I feel it is bug. (most of us expect duplicated figure or new loaded figure can edit geometry individually in current scene)
And I can not say it should work, but with simple test, if I use joint editor, then change root node name (not labell) about new load figure,
I could tweak new load figure geometry only. maybe ds treat figure which change actuall bone name, as different figure, untill save them.
but if I tweak more (eg add new surface group, then separate r screla only ), about change node name figure,, usually DS crash. then lost my work easy.
@kitakoredaz Saving as different figure doesn't seem to work here. Am I doing something wrong ?
1) load genesis and hide some faces with the geometry editor
2) save as new figure asset (file > save as > support asset)
3) load a new original genesis in the scene
You will see that the original genesis has the same hidden faces as the saved figure asset. That's somewhat annoying and I can't yet figure out the extension this issue may have. I guess I'm lucky that I'm not a PA. @mtl1 Please let us know any news.
EDIT: @kitakoredaz changing the root node name doesn't seem to work either (scene menu > edit > scene identification).
if you save the modified figure, with different name, (and I usualy must change node name in "joint editor" if I make copy figure and save it as new figure)
it should work. I do not hope to save as new figure, for daz default characters, but I had already modify many clothing figures like the way.
if you save it as different figure, both figure is saved as different in the data. if it still somehow corrupted, you miss save figure I think.
then changing root node worked for me too. I could assign new geometry, and remove some surface group about the changed figure. then could apply different mat for eye. in same scene.
(I said, use joint editor to change name, if you do different way, I do not know.) though after all I tweakedm more ds stop.
THen I recommend once delete the saved figure (as different name) , from curent scene. (about save as different figure) then load your new saved figure.
but keep original.
if you still keep same scene ds may miss understanding about modified figure which you change root node. (ds may not know, current modified figure are saved as different figure or not, untill you load it )
The shared effect is by design - having only one copy of a shared asset loaded, even if there are multiple items using it, is a way tolimit memory use. Saving as a new asset, with a new name, certainly should give you a separate item for modifying and if that isn't working it should be reported as a bug.
I think, if it is designed it idesign problem (as for me) even though it is useful for memory things.
but anyway, save as figure as differentname, have worked for me.
but I do not hope to save same genesis figure (duplicate) for instance modify, which only need to use current scene render.
eg, user may hope to modify surface group or add new group for r-side of one. then apply different mat for one character, but keep default mat abouot another character.
then render the scene for multi character. we usually think, even though base figure are same, loaded figure are different, (can tweak individually).
if daz stuido DSON not work so, it means, genesis figures can not load as individual figure. And, even though I duplicate them, it can not work.
then I think, if I change root node name, and save it as scene, it may work too.
if I do not save it as scene, usually DS often shut down, when I continue modify. if I hide some surfacegroup, ds still try to hide same group abot both, but actually I can re-visible about original.
in my pic, I modified root node name, then save as scene once. then edit geometry . (I cut geometry, by delete hidden surfaces) , when I delete, ds try to hide original too. but those surface of original are still there. then I can re-visible about original. but these way is still un-stable. and saved scene should be really large I afraid so. (it may need to dsicribe new figure data in scene file)
So I do not think, it somehow solve problem, but my way is like that.
1. about new loaded figure, change root node name. and labell. by joint editor. then anyway save it as scene .
2. tweak some geometry (add new group. or delete , etc)
3 I often see, ds still try to cause same effect about originall, but after save as scene, I can modify original individually. then if it hide some poligon, I could visible them.
4, when I tweak something, about copy (change node name figure), I save scene. (it actually take long time, it should be huge file I teel)
5, then keep working. so I could delete some geometry, and add new sruface group for eye. then change color about copy figure.
(but I do not think, smart content work about this figure any more. I need to re-assign many things. though un-tweaked group. or weight map may work still)
I know, this way (changen node name, then save as scene) is not stable. but it is option, without save as new figure. without it, we need many duplicate saved figure.
just for some modify, and to use in same scene. it is terrible for me.
@kitakoredaz I've tried changing the node name and such through the 'hamburger' menu in the Scene Tab, but the problem still persists. I may have to do this through the Joint Editor instead like you suggested...
All of this just seems very strange in terms of workflow...
@mlt1
I usually change node (bone) name by joint editor option menu. because it change rig. then save scene.
when I test it, I did not memorize figure, but this time I use memorize figure rigging too. (though I do not know, it need or not), but save the scene can up-date correctly I think.
sometimes I still see same group are hidden about both figure, but I simply think, ds remain temp or old one(which have not changed name) in memory, then miss understand.
so that, I tweak something >save the scene. continue it. if I change node name about figure, actually it is treated as diffrerent figure .
then modify something, (eg hide some group, or add group, or delete mesh etc), I save the scene soon.
if I tweak copy figure, surface, then change selection to original, it often cause miss visiblity.
but if I save the scene once, ds seems understand which figure is modified clearly.
though I know, if I modify geometry with copy and original, ds often stop and shut down. then I say it is not stable. and can not solve this problem as true meaning.
As daz view, it is desigend so. (though I think, it is not well designed), that means we can not modify geometry of 2 insatnces of same figure, in the same scene indivdually, untill we save as new figure. or ds still show problem, strange effect or suddenly shut down.
Change node name, and save as scene, is just a cheat way. But DSON like to save, figure modify as dsf. (morph or rigging or group etc), then it is not stable when I save it as duf only.
I had this recently - I ended up editing the figure in a blank scene - saving as scene-subset - loading the scene I wanted to work on and brining in the edited figure from the scene-subset save. Worked okay.
I forgot, to mention it, " hide face with geometry editor can not be saved as scene " it had been requested, to offer option keep hidden faces with geometry editor,
but Daz said, "geometry editor visiblity is not designed so. it is desgined for temp work (hidden pligons) to edit easy." if we need to hide poligons, need to use scene node and parameter. then can not keep current visiblity of geometry editor, as saved scene. it is not matter, howmany figures we load etc,,, it is limit about geometry editor pligon visilbity.
^Yeah, I discovered that too. The only way to keep them hidden in a saved scene is to delete them ('delete hidden polygons')
@mtl1
If I undestand what Richard says, the geometry editor is not meant to edit a figure instance. It is meant to edit a figure definition. In your example the G3F definition. So it affects all the G3F characters on the scene.
So, for example, if you need to hide a selection of polys, one way to do this is to define a new surface with the geometry editor, then use the surface tab to set opacity to 0 only on the figure you wish. The picture below is showing this.
@kitakoredaz @silentwinter
Thank you very much for your further explanations. I got something out from this. For example if I delete some geometry then save as scene subset, it seems to work.
@richard
If I understand what you say, then saving as new asset (file > save as > support asset > figure) should work to make the figures independent from each other. But it doesn't. Even if you save as new asset the geometry editor hides the geometry selection on both figures. Anyway since mtl1 already filed a bug report I'll wait for his news.
Yeah, I tried a variety of things such as renaming nodes, saving as a support asset, reloading it back in, etc and it doesn't seem to work; they're always treated as the same figure.
Another problem with this: I have two figures in the scene. I update the vertex positions on one, and the other figure will copy it!! :(
This is starting to be a pain, especially if I have more than one of the same figure type on the screen.
It is not a bug, it's a feature. Got it.
Please fix the feature, or give us a way to opt-out.
I know it's hard to believe, but our time is valuable, too!
Wasting time trying to work around this "memory-saving feature".
Saving with a new name doesn't work for me, either.
@mtl1
Richard says "saving as a new asset, with a new name, certainly should give you a separate item for modifying and if that isn't working it should be reported as a bug"
So savig as a new asset should work (file > save as > support asset > figure), but it doesn't. So it should be reported as a bug. Since you already opened a ticket for this you may go on and let us know.
If you make changes using the Geometry Tool, save the modified object as a subscene (just the selected item). Restart DS, load the saved subscene and the original unmodified object. That should work.
Yeah, I got an email this morning saying that it was added to the bug tracker :)