advice needed on how to design clothing
gabu
Posts: 303
When I started doing 3D, initially with Poser then with Studio, I didn't really know what I wanted to achieve with it. But over the past year or so I have had a lot of fun finding out.
Now I have a better idea of where I want to go with 3D but I think it is going to mean that I have to design my own clothes/armour because none of the stores have products with the sort of look I want - sort of sci-fi/fantasy or techno/fantasy.
So I am wondering what I need to do to gain the skills to do this.
I imagine that the first step would be to pick apart already designed clothes to see how they were made and perhaps make modifications to them.
So what software would I need to do this? For instance, would I need to get a copy of Marvellous Designer?
And what tutorials are available to explain the processes involved?
Any help would be appreciated.
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Comments
Best way to learn how to model clothes is to get some good tutorials. I learnt how to model by watching Fugazi's tutorials which are available on Renderosity.
He starts with the basics and gradually shows you how to add extras. The tutorials are mainly for Generation 4 figures, such as V4, but you can adapt these to Genesis. he also has two tutorials on Genesis clothing in Daz shop.
He mainly uses Silo, or Hexagon. These are what you need to do modelling.
There are also several tutorials in Daz shop for rigging clothing as well.
...clothing content can be modelled in any modelling app from Hexagon to Blender.
For rigging you need an application with setup tools like Daz 4.5 (which includes the Content Creation Tools) or Poser Pro2012 (which has the setup room and it's own content creation tools). Poser also allows for one to also create dynamic cloth, while Daz Studio's dynamics are "closed ended" and will only work with clothing created with Optitex's software (the price of which makes 3DS Max look like a PC priced item).
Blender also has both it's own rigging and cloth dynamic tools but as I understand they are not compatible with Daz Studio.
If you go the Daz Studio route, there are two good tutorials by Blondie9999 that will help with understanding and learning to rig for Genesis.
http://www.daz3d.com/rigging-original-figures-in-ds4-pro
http://www.daz3d.com/advanced-rigging-in-daz-studio-4-pro
OK now about Marvelous Designer. I have the Personal Licence (199USD) which allows me to create content for my own use, distribution as freebies, that can be sold through the MD site. If you intend to actually sell your finished creations here or on another 3D content store, you will need the Small Business Licence which is 699USD.
The thing I like about MD is it approaches the task of clothing creation from a seamstress/costume designer's view using terms which I find more "intuitive" to clothing design (as I used to work in theatrical costuming). MD also is geared for creating dynamic clothing, but can also be used to create .obj meshes for fitted (rigged) content as well. It also has collision detection so layered clothing can be created.
While I could write a lengthy explanation here it would be better just to go to their site for the full overview.
http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/
Hopefully this helps a bit.
Here's my two cents. I've been selling in 3d as my primary income for three years and at DAZ for one.
Marvelous Designer is in no way necessary; I don't use it. The important thing to creating a realistic item is not using a specific program, but rather these two things:
1. Sufficient mastery of your tools that you have learned to create features like buttons, seams, zippers, gears, etc. You can do this in any modeling program. Zbrush makes it easier to do things like create fancy displacements, but other programs have sculpting tools that make it at least possible (baking sculpted geometry to create displacement for increased garment detail is a part of my workflow and I'm still using Blender and the GIMP). Hexagon has lots of great tutorial support and is easier for many people to pick up than Blender, and it's much cheaper than the big modeling suites (Modo, Max, Maya, etc.)
2. Being able to look at a resource or source pic and choose which things in it are useful to you and your project. If you can't create a concept that looks like it could be fastened onto a real body by a real person, you're already fighting a losing battle - even the most high-fantasy and scanty concepts like Alfaseed's observe this principle in some way. Ask yourself where seams and fasteners and wrinkles go, and you're halfway there in having a good concept for an all-new item no matter how fantastical. Final Fantasy outfits are a good example because, while they are very fantastical and stylized, they also have a lot of fasteners and realistic garment bits to "ground" them.
You need to pay nothing to anyone when you're starting out. Master the free tools first, and then you will know enough to decide what others you really need or want.
...true, one doesn't necessarily need such a dedicated tool as MD.
I just mentioned it as one possibility since from my perspective, I find it more intuitive to work with as it is in a "language" I more readily understand (with regard to clothing design) than that of a conventional modelling application. Hexagon's instability made it almost useless for my purposes, as it would freeze up without warning (locking my entire system up at times requiring a hard shutdown and reboot) particularly when applying smoothing factors and subdivision. Meanwhile, MD2 (the 32 bit version) worked fine, albeit slow, but no crashes, lock ups, or conflicts.
I found, at least for my purposes, MD2 was much simpler to grasp than Blender at the time (before the UI "overhaul"). Also got in on the "ground floor" and picked up my Personal Licence for under 100$. So there were a number of factors in the decision.
BTW, I do have the latest version of Blender which I am currently learning, but it is still a long road ahead.
Thanks for the replies and advice.
Although the news that Hexagon can be unstable is worrying I think I will go that way via Fugazi's tutorials (I have now bought the first one from the shop). It struck me as a good approach as it teaches you Hexagon on the way. And hopefully any experience with Hexagon could transfer to another program if needed.
I will keep an open mind about MD2. Although I doubt that it would be the best way for armour (a quick skim of the galleries didn't show anything like that) it looks like it will be a good way to do non rigid clothing. I will need to be fairly sure about it first because of the price.
This is all still a hobby on a showstring. I don't have any visions of being a commercial artist. But you never know ...
Is it possible to import figures for DAZ and Poser into Marvelous Designer, to make clothes for them?
And is there any advantage in using this program for making conforming rather than dynamic clothes?
Are you modelling for your own personal use or are you planning on eventually becoming a PA?
If it is strictly for personal use, you can model and rig as suits your use. If you are looking to become a PA, then you have to take a look at the broader market.
How much modelling experience do you have? Modellers range from free to high end. I have seen some amazing things done in Wings and some garbage done in Max and Maya.
Over and above the modelling aspect, there is the texture end of things. Even if your modeller has a decent UV mapper, are you a skilled texture artist? Customers today expect much more than a flood fill and bump map. You may be looking at buying an app that does textures, specular maps, bump maps, displacement maps and maybe even normal maps.
If you plan to sell your products, you then have to consider how wide a consumer group you are aiming at.
...yes you actually have to import a model to do the fitting (as a .obj).
MD2 can be used for creating conforming clothes (I've seen several examples) as long as you export the finished mesh to an application that has the proper rigging tools.
For me at least, the big advantage is in the approach the application takes to clothing design as I mentioned above. It literally is more like making a pattern and cutting, pinning, sewing "real" cloth rather than having to deal with the more "technical" concepts and procedures used in other 3D modelling programmes.
There are basically many steps to clothing.
1: Learning to model it. I model mine from a single polygon and build off it. But there are many ways to model it. Some ppl use prims and fit them and cut them up as needed. And there are things like Marvelous designer (though, Ive never used it)
2: Learning how to map. And for clothing, u will need a pelt mapper like uv layout (u can use uvmapper for some stuff, but I more recommend uvlayout for its flattening capability, since clothing, even tho inorganic, can be compared to organics in many ways)
3: Learning how to morph. There are tons of ways to do this: In a modeller, in ZBrush (the best IMO), using dformers or magnets.
4: Texturing. No clothing model is complete without it.
5: Learning to rig. Again, modelling clothing is lovely, but its no good without a solid knowledge of rigging. Sure, u do borrow rigs when rigging to a certain figure.... but if you have extra parts that do different stuff, that all has to be rigged by hand.
6: Patience. Its a bit akin to assembly line production (meaning, you have the same series of things you have to do every time.... and they can be a bit lengthy in process) Not to mention, patience in learning how to do all this lol
7: Ethics. One of the most important things, esp if you're going to sell your items. It basically comes down to not copyright infringing on other ppl's designs, files and whatnot, not using textures you get from google that are not commercially allowed, etc. Learning the proper way to do anything in 3D is first and foremost.
And I think that about covers it lol Its a long road, and not the easiest thing to do in the world of 3D. But, I love doing clothing... so would definitely say its worth it.
Good luck!
...don't the CCT's allow you to create/add morphs? Apps like ZBrush is a bit out of many peoples' budgets especially for those of us who just want to create clothing content for our own needs. Even UVLayout is a bit of a stretch at 200$.
Are there any less costly alternatives?
Could give Sculptris http://pixologic.com/sculptris/ a try. Not exactly ZBrush, but a lot can be done right within it.
Blender will also allow you to sculpt morphs, I think. The CCTs let you load morphs, but they don't include tools (other than DForms, in DS itself) for creation.
...yes you actually have to import a model to do the fitting (as a .obj).
MD2 can be used for creating conforming clothes (I've seen several examples) as long as you export the finished mesh to an application that has the proper rigging tools.
For me at least, the big advantage is in the approach the application takes to clothing design as I mentioned above. It literally is more like making a pattern and cutting, pinning, sewing "real" cloth rather than having to deal with the more "technical" concepts and procedures used in other 3D modelling programmes.
Yes, I've seen some of the tutorial videos, I like that approach too. And judging from the animations it looks like it's working quite well. Think I'll take a look at the trial.
Can you report back to this thread what conclusions you come to please.
This. I still don't own Zbrush. It's with 3dCoat on my long-term list because of some of its features, especially for advanced character creation and very detailed outfits (Valendar and Raw both use it, to give you an idea), but it is by no means mandatory.
I do my morphs in Blender. Sometimes using sculpting, but more often with selective hiding and proportional editing. Blender is free, has a good obj import/export feature, and there is good tutorial support for the new versions at BlenderCookie and on YouTube.
Once a morph is created in an external program, it is loaded through the CCT Morph Loader as an obj. I understand Hexagon has a bridge to DS that may do that differently, but I don't use Hex and thus cannot elaborate.
Yes, I've seen some of the tutorial videos, I like that approach too. And judging from the animations it looks like it's working quite well. Think I'll take a look at the trial.
I found the mapping to be a pain but then I started with Poser and Poser material zones so I guess I'm a little spoiled.
Could give Sculptris http://pixologic.com/sculptris/ a try. Not exactly ZBrush, but a lot can be done right within it.
...looks pretty nice. Have to go to the hotspot to DL
Yes, I've seen some of the tutorial videos, I like that approach too. And judging from the animations it looks like it's working quite well. Think I'll take a look at the trial.
I found the mapping to be a pain but then I started with Poser and Poser material zones so I guess I'm a little spoiled.
...however it still beats having to shell out 200$ on a mapping tool when I'm just doing this for my own enjoyment.
Will do...
Yes, I've seen some of the tutorial videos, I like that approach too. And judging from the animations it looks like it's working quite well. Think I'll take a look at the trial.
I found the mapping to be a pain but then I started with Poser and Poser material zones so I guess I'm a little spoiled.
You mean mapping conforming clothes? Can you do that from within MD? Or, if you have to export the mesh, is it any different than mapping a mesh you have created in another 3D program?