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Oh heck No!!! I've been prodding for assistance all along ;-)
Whatever comes from this, I'll certainly provide links directing folks to various places within - where applicable.
The rather decent collection of links that I've created already, are there to help me to refer to various topic, once I get into writing more articles. Same with the index of tutorials. As I write, I'll be able to go into that thread, find a link, and use it. It'll begin to come round once some more time is freed. I'm still new to Carrara, though... so I need help too! :)
I agree with the previous posts that what is needed more is collecting information and putting it in one place. Some very informative posts from the old forums I'm hoping can have the info in them transferred and updated if updates are needed to. Some hepl sections on DAZ's site are also messed up because of this.
Jay, thanks for your post and thoughts.
Yesterday, I started going through all of the videos I could find on YouTube related to Carrara; mostly tutorials, but also some demos I thought would still be informative. I am logging all of these into an Excel spreadsheet, which can be sorted and filtered. So far, I have nearly 300 videos.
Once I have completed my systematic search (probably by mid-next week), I will catalog them (putting topics to them), sort them by topic, and post the results on a new forum thread.
I will continue to revise this list, and expand the list to cover other video sites (e.g., Vimeo). Hopefully, people will find this useful to more easily access what they are interested in learning about.
Interesting point - I have found very little overlap of tutorials across the range of authors. Maybe this is coincidence, or by author design, but given the range of topics in Carrara, it is more likely only a few shots taken at a target-rich environment. ;)
As a result of creating this list, we might find "holes" in the tutorials, and this might spark an interest to fill them. We can only hope! :)
Jay, thanks for your post and thoughts.
Yesterday, I started going through all of the videos I could find on YouTube related to Carrara; mostly tutorials, but also some demos I thought would still be informative. I am logging all of these into an Excel spreadsheet, which can be sorted and filtered. So far, I have nearly 300 videos.
Once I have completed my systematic search (probably by mid-next week), I will catalog them (putting topics to them), sort them by topic, and post the results on a new forum thread.
I will continue to revise this list, and expand the list to cover other video sites (e.g., Vimeo). Hopefully, people will find this useful to more easily access what they are interested in learning about.
Interesting point - I have found very little overlap of tutorials across the range of authors. Maybe this is coincidence, or by author design, but given the range of topics in Carrara, it is more likely only a few shots taken at a target-rich environment. ;)
As a result of creating this list, we might find "holes" in the tutorials, and this might spark an interest to fill them. We can only hope! :)
Yes, my thoughts exactly! Once we see where the holes are, people can see where to put their efforts. Looking forward to seeing this catalog!
Jay, thanks for your post and thoughts.
Yesterday, I started going through all of the videos I could find on YouTube related to Carrara; mostly tutorials, but also some demos I thought would still be informative. I am logging all of these into an Excel spreadsheet, which can be sorted and filtered. So far, I have nearly 300 videos.
Once I have completed my systematic search (probably by mid-next week), I will catalog them (putting topics to them), sort them by topic, and post the results on a new forum thread.
I will continue to revise this list, and expand the list to cover other video sites (e.g., Vimeo). Hopefully, people will find this useful to more easily access what they are interested in learning about.
Interesting point - I have found very little overlap of tutorials across the range of authors. Maybe this is coincidence, or by author design, but given the range of topics in Carrara, it is more likely only a few shots taken at a target-rich environment. ;)
As a result of creating this list, we might find "holes" in the tutorials, and this might spark an interest to fill them. We can only hope! :)
This is very cool. I'll certainly link this into my thread as well... like everything in this forum.
I wonder what the bandwidth requirements would be for a wiki site of our own? I know Holly wasn't thrilled with the idea of wiki -- but I think it could be made to work. It might be nice to have a system that is not dependent on DAZ in any way.
Another option would be a Google site. Free, multiple styles of site to choose from, and I think you can give author permissions, if I'm not mistaken. Alternately, each contributer could even set up their own site and have each link with one another. They have YouTube embedding and image support... its free
It doesn't allow just anybody to go in and type. Holly uses Word Press, and that is yet another (of many) options worth considering.
I know that I'll be hosting tutorials on my Google site - especially for my products. These forums just fall far too short for decent tutorial authoring. For an art forum... I'm really not pleased with the chosen package. I am fine with five images per post. The size limits and upload facilities are fine too. But having them all stuck at the end of the post is a real PITA IMHO.
I hope that thy have some sort of plan to fix it. But nobody tells us anything about that, so for now I just started making a site of my own, and will post a link to it when it actually has something to show :)
I like how easy and flexible Google sites are - I'm sure there are others. This is just the one that hooked me the day I decided to try one. I guess you can even make it the right way if you know that stuff... I just use the built in tools. Write some... put in a picture, size the picture, put it where I want on the page - to a point. Add other web stuff and as many sites and pages as you want/need. So a large Carrara information project could truly be taking place upon a series of sites that work together to organize everything. For example, Holly already has a great thing going at her space. I'm building mine. Howie Farkes has a cool site, Johnny Ray has his blog, etc.,
Now we could creat a single site dedicated to organizing links to all various different sites every time the site falls within the categorical list of links and information.
So the one main site oud be built like a User's Manual with that same flow. Eventually the thread that I've started will be like that. Readers will have links for proper order of flow... since I can only add this here, and that there. My site will be much easier to edit in that regard.
Now as the manual presents the information, perhaps even from the excellent manuals that we have for Carrara - with that similar flow, indicators*** could direct people to the side bar that includes links to sites and video indexes that pertain to the topic at hand. Videos that really dig in and explain beautifully what the manual needs to express, embed that baby. Same with Holly's cool cartoon tutorials, 3dages well formated pdfs... I like all of these tools that I find. faba's cool tuts about Fenric's ERC and her stairs walk cycles she made... man, when theres a godd printable source, like in the examples of 3dage, faba and Holly (and more), I even print out hard copies and have my own hard-bound manuals for reading when I have to go and sit in a waiting room, or similar situation. My netbook is being set up to link me all around to entertaining, educational videos and readables. It's my traveller's handbook and smart phone via Skype.
Nothing with Google is free...they index the **** out of you and monetize on it anyway that they can.
What I was (only vaguely) thinking about was paying (i.e. "not free") a hosting company that offers enough bandwidth and database space to run MediaWiki (what powers Wikipedia). It's just that "not free" bit that'll burn us. My minimal research into this suggests costs of $20 per month.
Really----efforts to organize and make it easier to use software is such an important factor in folks buying software and continuiing to upgrade -------perhaps Daz could see the immense benefits to them to provide assistance in this fashion.
These topics and things come up often I'm noticing, they were covered in very good detail on the old forum, or ought to be covered in any organization of Carrara material.
1.) How to install Carrara. The old forum had numerous posts to help with this and so did the old DAZ help files. What each installer was and things to be aware when installing like the paint brush sampler file name name was covered. I've backed up all that info into a Word file I burned onto a disk.
2.) Setting up render nodes. The old forum had a very detailed post that covered this.
3.) How to do cell (animation) renders. This topic comes up often, usually the standard reply is to direct a person to YAToon and ToonPro! plugins. However, very little exists in the tutorial department covering cell rendering and typical problems, advantages one plugin has over another, tips on combing plugins, etc. A few other plugins aside from YAToon and ToonPro! could be set up to do cell shading, but finding info on how to do so can be very time consuming as it is buried in numerous other threads.
4.) Supplemental files for products. A few PA have free supplemental files for products they sell in the DAZ store, but finding links to them can be difficult for a few of them.
I know... there has always been talks to this nature. That is why I finally, on a whim one day, decided to roll that ball. I know I have a LOT of work - especially formatting... but at least I believe that I have (with the help of everybody who has ever posted in the Carrara forum), created a nice place where everyone can come and find some good links towards resolving their particular queries. I have no clue as to how often it gets visited and/or used, but that doesn't matter to me as much as if someone, somewhere finds it to be helpful. I put out plea's to get links to things that people think should be added, fairly often. And add whatever people send me.
You have done spectacular work in that regard! But, let's be honest, these forums are just too bloody limiting. A proper wiki format would make information vastly more discoverable and maintainable.
Perhaps, but the last thing I need is to waste a pile if time if anybody can come in and change it. I am improving my thread page behind the scenes as we speak. It will work as a temporary (perhaps permanent?) fix until the forum is fixed. Not sure Daz3d likes the forums anymore. They sure do avoid coming here... that's for sure. Nah... at first I took this whole topic as a big kick in the nuts, since I have put so many hours into that thing, already performed all those searches that people are now discovering... linked to many, and will link to many more... even made links to help get from J to D and back to A. I'll continue my fairly thankless efforts, as I've never really wanted to do it for thanks. I just wanted to give new people who come here to have something to look at beside bitching. Sometimes that's all you can find, otherwise... lol
I'll let someone else carry the torch of change, and I'll just keep dabbling in mine in my own way.
Hopefully, my new site - once I get these tutorials finished and uploaded to it, will help make that thread a bit more bearable - albeit still having to link offsite to do it is a bummer. This forum really gives Magento a bad name in my honest opinion. Granted, Daz has had a lot more than forums on their minds. But if this is the best that Magento can do when the forum starts... shame on them for accepting any money at all.
There will be plenty of single malt scotch from me in September!
I am glad the flow is still coming on this topic, but whatever form and shape the solution takes, if one is created, needs a strong support group. I am still hopeful more people will offer their suggestions and thoughts on the topic. A good solution needs many different perspectives/views. Please keep up the discussion!
To expand on the summary on the middle of page 2 in this thread, whatever form the solution takes, it should:
1) Pull all of the existing internet materials (Carrara User's Guides, video demos and tutorials; text tutorials and step-by-step how-to descriptions; user's guides and manuals; and downloadable materials) into a single structure of cross-referencing links.
2) Make these materials easy to access; i.e., a few clicks to any specific topic.
3) Be easy to update (by anyone) as new materials become available, organizing materials by topic / subject matter. Authors who want to maintain control over their personal materials would maintain these materials elsewhere and provide links on the site (since the site would be designed primarily to be a link-oriented structure anyway).
4) Identify holes in the materials (e.g., "how-to's" and video tutorials) that need to be filled. This could guide authors to focus their energy in specific areas of support.
5) Engage the Carrara community in the process of continual expansion and renewal. That is, people should be able to add new links to features as they become available, and remove old links to features as they are replaced with better ones.
6) Be community-based; i.e., not be managed by a company. The community will have better success relying on its members than on a company to make it work. This also implies the solution needs to be "free" unless someone is willing to pay for it.
7) Be either embedded within an existing already accessible website (e.g., Daz Forums, Daz Documentation wiki, Carrara Cafe) or easily accessible by anyone.
Note: There are still some points of contention around #3, so more thoughts are needed about how the solution can be updated / fixed by anyone while authors maintain control of their materials.
Don't you find these two points to be mutually exclusive? If the project is managed by a company, that company would have to be extremely altruistic and open-minded to not want to interfere or otherwise apply some set of restrictions. DAZ seems to be rather hands-off with Carrara Cafe but I also suspect that it is running on piteously under-powered machine(s) for what some of us would like to see it be - of course, I don't know the technical specs but the Cafe does seem sluggish in performance.
Excellent point, Garstor! I agree achieving these together might be a challenge. I was hoping to spark a discussion around just such a topic. The question is, "If we could choose just ONE of these two requirements (community based and accessible via existing forums/web docs), which one should it be?"
I'd think the best possible solution (to address both needs) would be that Daz provides us a wiki (and/or other tools) that meet these needs, and allow the Carrara community manage it. I guess we could ask someone at Daz about this.
One good win-win scenario would be that Daz relinquishes control of the Carrara documentation to the community, and spends a little money instead providing the resources (tools, storage space, software, and servers that meet the throughput needs) needed for the community to develop and manage its own documents for user consumption, and they (the company and its employees) agree to become contributing members to the site. Since Carrara 7 User's Guide is copyrighted, we would need Daz's authorization to copy and re-use this material as the baseline to build from. This would obviously be faster than creating new materials.
FYI - I was on Cafe this morning and noticed a very long delay time. I can only image what it would be like if the Carrara community relied on the Cafe's servers to access the documentation.
Looking at the host - www.webhost4life.com - for my own website; a "high-end" package is just shy of $20 per month (http://www.webhost4life.com/webhost4life/windows-hosting.bml). Let's call it $250 per year. That will get a MySQL database for running MediaWiki and "unlimited" bandwidth -- the big question to me is, would this project exceed what WH4L considers "normal" bandwidth?
I'd be very willing to contribute financially and skills-wise (my web coding skill is for suck, but I know databases very well). This turns things into an ROI question now -- would building such a site be useful enough to the community at large? I suspect that is what Holly and company are struggling with right now -- I don't think the Cafe is getting the traffic they'd like it to get.
Honestly, I'd go to the Cafe more often but its performance makes the experience too painful. Sorry guys! Not your fault. This sets up an ouroborus cycle that makes the Cafe less useful than these forums. It will take a serious investment (financial and time) by several people to break this self-destructive cycle.
A word of caution. My website changed locations because the previous hosting company decided that there was indeed a limit to "Unlimited Bandwidth" and "Unlimited Storage" so do be cautious of "Reasonable Bandwidth" and see if you can get a definitive description before committing to anything.
Indeed! My curiousity was piqued when I saw that "unlimited" was actually a pop-up window that defined (vaguely) was the word meant. I would have to completely agree that caution is necessary.
My little blog gets next to zero traffic and I'm not running an online store; so I'm not worried. But a project like this would have hundreds or thousands of possible visitors. On a semi-related note, at work I am involved in a project for estimating the bandwidth used by a large international company with their SharePoint portal -- how much data is being sent over the wires and how much will the database be growing over time? It's a tough question.
The killer for us would be posting big renders. Every image view * some number of MB would quickly soak up that "unlimited" bandwidth.