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I kinda know how, but I want to know why! Modeling like sewing? Please help :)

PoserMagicPoserMagic Posts: 0
edited June 2012 in Hexagon Discussion

Ok, I have been watching tuts and following along so I kinda know how to model, but want to know why about some items. Why do you weld, is it to keep it together? I assume so, like say its a shirt, I start with a box, is the welding like the thread? If I start with grid or facets (this would be my cloth) do I need to weld say the front to the back? I took sewing so if its like that I will know how to make something and where to weld items. Anther thing, I have Pegasus also and when making clothes on the tut it tell you if you remove a polygon and add a new one you must go in a certain order with the points or it will mess up, is this true with all faces or just that program? Say I want to make some hair, and I make lots of layers, do they all need to be welded or just the top or none at all? Do you always need to have square faces, what is wrong with other shapes? One other thing for now, I have taken some of my fav models into hex to see how they are make their clothes say pants, have the left side, right side, and the middle. If you click them they move just that side, are they not welded, do they need to be, they stay together in poser, why can the obj be pulled in hex, is it how they are rigged? Thanks I know its a lot but I need to know why to wrap my brain around all this. Thanks :)

Post edited by PoserMagic on

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  • ds-mail_2e0cb9c256ds-mail_2e0cb9c256 Posts: 70
    edited December 1969

    PoserMagic said:
    Ok, I have been watching tuts and following along so I kinda know how to model, but want to know why about some items. Why do you weld, is it to keep it together? I assume so, like say its a shirt, I start with a box, is the welding like the thread? If I start with grid or facets (this would be my cloth) do I need to weld say the front to the back? I took sewing so if its like that I will know how to make something and where to weld items. Anther thing, I have Pegasus also and when making clothes on the tut it tell you if you remove a polygon and add a new one you must go in a certain order with the points or it will mess up, is this true with all faces or just that program? Say I want to make some hair, and I make lots of layers, do they all need to be welded or just the top or none at all? Do you always need to have square faces, what is wrong with other shapes? One other thing for now, I have taken some of my fav models into hex to see how they are make their clothes say pants, have the left side, right side, and the middle. If you click them they move just that side, are they not welded, do they need to be, they stay together in poser, why can the obj be pulled in hex, is it how they are rigged? Thanks I know its a lot but I need to know why to wrap my brain around all this. Thanks :)

    Can answer some:
    Weld = connect things together (not just group them together...but attached together)
    Welding is similar to thread....but thread is an extra material holding stuff together...think more like welding two metal pieces together...they become one; only one material involved.
    You don't have to weld things together unless you want them stuck together.....you will want most things stuck together to keep them in the right place when you move parts....and for applying materials later to the whole object instead of a lot of individual pieces...its easier.
    Usually the order or method is important to removing or adding points, lines, faces...wrong order will give undesired results. Think sewing...order of work is important.
    Four sided faces are needed for use with "smoothing"....the smoothing codes don't work well with non-4-sided faces...they don't have to be square. If you are not smoothing, then not required. Often programs won't render greater than 4 sided faces....or render wrong.
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,247
    edited December 1969

    Just to add to that - there are two types of welding in Hex - one type is just "weld" - that will make two shapes into one, whether they are touching or not - a better wording would be "amalgamate". The other type is "point weld" - this is an actual weld which makes two verts (points) into one - for this they need to be touching.

    If they are not touching, this function will move both points an equal distance so that they occupy the same space, then weld them. There are variations on this last, such as "target weld", which moves one point to the position of the target point and welds them, "average weld" which moves points within a selected distance towards each other and welds.

    When you say parts of the Poser figure move separately, I'm assuming you mean the body parts are grouped. Before rigging a Poser figure, it has to be cut up into groups, one for each body part, so that the bones allocated to that part know which part of the whole they influence.

  • PoserMagicPoserMagic Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    ok here is a good vendors obj file, the first pic is how it imports and the sec if you click on the diff parts 3 parts for the shorts they pull apart. Are they not welded together? Was it most likely make all together like from a box and then the vendor rigged it and now it comes apart? I hope I don't get into trouble posting the pics but have left out what vendor it is. Thanks saved the first wrong but you get the point.

    apart.jpg
    1366 x 768 - 76K
    toget.gif
    683 x 384 - 75K
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,247
    edited December 1969

    Yes, that's a good example - it is made as one piece, then cut up into sections (but these sections are not moved, so it looks like it's still one piece) to match the body parts which move the parts of the clothing when it's rigged. It is then "welded" in Poser, but Hex reads it as separate parts. You can see the names of the parts in the list, which match the names of the body parts.

  • PoserMagicPoserMagic Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thanks that is very helpful, and the images got posted in the wrong order but I know you know that! LOL Thank you again, this has help very much :)

  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    Yes, that's a good example - it is made as one piece, then cut up into sections (but these sections are not moved, so it looks like it's still one piece) to match the body parts which move the parts of the clothing when it's rigged. It is then "welded" in Poser, but Hex reads it as separate parts. You can see the names of the parts in the list, which match the names of the body parts.

    Yes, that's the way Poser and Studio both work and they will import as separate pieces in any other program, V4 is no different for example. Only rigged items for Poser or V4 or earlier need to be created this way If your goal is clothing for Genesis you don't want to go this way and the entire item should be one piece just like props.


    The first type of weld you described before is more commonly called merge and needed to join separate meshes in other apps. Target weld and bridge for example wont work without merging first, however Hex seems to overlook this.


    DougS, neither welding or merging has any bearing on materials. Also, while Hex has trouble a lot of times subdividing ngons, it also has trouble dealing with tris even when applying bevels. For organic shapes like clothes it is best to stick to quads but for hard surfaces that wont ever deform it isn't as big an issue and non-planar quads will produce artifacts just as readily as non-planar ngons.



    I have Pegasus also and when making clothes on the tut it tell you if you remove a polygon and add a new one you must go in a certain order with the points or it will mess up, is this true with all faces or just that program?

    I don't know Pegasus or how it works but essentially this is true for any modeler, look at the thread about twisted ngons. Hex will make the connection and decide on it's own how to handle it which may or may not be how you want it done.

  • PoserMagicPoserMagic Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    thanks admkrk that is very helpful also :)

  • KimberSueKimberSue Posts: 353
    edited December 1969

    Hi, I have been using hexagon and a few other modeling program but looking at Pegasus Modeler. Do you like the software?

    Thanks
    Kimberly

  • PoserMagicPoserMagic Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    KimberSue said:
    Hi, I have been using hexagon and a few other modeling program but looking at Pegasus Modeler. Do you like the software?

    Thanks
    Kimberly

    I really do like it, but have been having issues in RL so have not learned it well.

  • KimberSueKimberSue Posts: 353
    edited December 1969

    PoserMagic said:
    KimberSue said:
    Hi, I have been using hexagon and a few other modeling program but looking at Pegasus Modeler. Do you like the software?

    Thanks
    Kimberly

    I really do like it, but have been having issues in RL so have not learned it well.

    RL?

  • PoserMagicPoserMagic Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    KimberSue said:
    PoserMagic said:
    KimberSue said:
    Hi, I have been using hexagon and a few other modeling program but looking at Pegasus Modeler. Do you like the software?

    Thanks
    Kimberly

    I really do like it, but have been having issues in RL so have not learned it well.

    RL?

    Real life Sorry, was being lazy :P

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