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Well the point is that a distant light is outside the geometry, so all one gets is what comes through doors, windows etc (assuming shadows is turned on for the distant light.) This can be fine if that is what we want, but since we can't place it... it is all we'll ever get with an enclosed environment when using distant lights. If we want to fully light an interior space we need to consider other lights inside. UE provides a base level of ambient lighting that will be equal across the environment, inside and out. I will often combine a UE for ambient and a distant for sun that is meant to come through windows and doors only. When sculpting our light evironment we want to consider things like shadows. UE will only provide occlusion type shadows, since it is basically omnidirectional. If we are indoors and want shadows, the item providing the shadow (character, etc..) needs to be in line with light coming through a door/window with a distant light set to shadows as in this scene (single UE with distant through window.. distant set to cast shadows,) or we need other interior lights set to cast shadows.
I personally try to avoid spot lights trying to recreate lighting in the scene as it would be there, either using point lights, linear point lights (a cheat, I know) or ubersurfaces. Not that there is anything wrong with spot lights, just that I find they tend to not react as naturally as the other lights in many circumstances I am trying to light.
lualu: Very good start. I agree with Totte's suggestions about softening the shadows, and also the comment on the importance of setting up materials. Luxus does a lot of this work for you, but often there is room for improvement.
peter.schelfhout: Great job! In case you didn't realize this, though, the rules state that entries must not be "previously available for public viewing"--this includes your render thread in the Art Studio forum. If you would like to enter this image in the contest thread, we ask that you remove it from your personal render thread (and anywhere else you might have posted it) until after you have submitted it to the contest thread. Once it's submitted you can then post it elsewhere (must have a later timestamp). Let us know if you have any questions about this.
spmwc: Good improvement. I particularly like the spotlight you added, and if anything I think it should be brighter (you did a good job with her facial expression and it wouldn't hurt if it was more noticeable).
nreed: My favorite part is how the firelight falls on the floor. Maybe decrease the overall ambient lighting, to focus on the fire more?
bluemoon: Nice work...I particularly like the camera angle and interplay of light and shadow. Not entirely convinced by the facial expressions... Or maybe it's the female character's head and neck pose...something seems a little stiff. If you want to continue working on the lights, you might consider going for a more dramatic lighting effect for the male character. I'm not sure this would be an improvement, but I think it's worth experimenting with. Overall I think it's very well done, though. Sorry to hear about your scene files!
JesterVII: I think it looks better with the spotlights. It might look more appealing if the lighting wasn't quite so even, though...some lights slanting in from an angle, some color variation among the lights, etc. Maybe a rim light/backlighting would be a nice addition. In some situations I feel as Gedd does and try to avoid spotlights, but I think this is an example of where spotlights can be effective.
Thanks for warning me! I will remove it from my personal thread before officially posting it in the contest thread.
Peter.
Oh? I had understood it as that we could not post our contest entries anywhere else until after the contest was done... Yay, one of few times I'm glad to have missunderstood something *laughs* Considering timedifference and such, how long would you guys recommend one waits before posting the entry somewhere else?
/C
Oh? I had understood it as that we could not post our contest entries anywhere else until after the contest was done... Yay, one of few times I'm glad to have missunderstood something *laughs* Considering timedifference and such, how long would you guys recommend one waits before posting the entry somewhere else?
/C
As long as it was posted first in the Contest thread you can put it up anywhere after that
As long as it was posted first in the Contest thread you can put it up anywhere after that
Mom is going to be happy to see some of the pictures I've been talking to her about :) And so will my poor friends who has had to listen to me whining and cursing from time to time *smiles*
This isn't aimed at Gedd, it's just that this paragraph caught my eye, and I felt that expanding on it would be helpful. My apologies to Gedd,
I do agree with trying to mimic the lighting style of a scene. meaning if there are tube lights or bulb light objects visible in the scene, you should try and match that lighting. The part where I think you're limiting yourself if you avoid any type of light (not just spots) because they seem difficult to use. You could miss out on some really cool effects that would be difficult to get any other way- even if it seems like it would be wrong in the real world. Remember, you're an artist creating a work of art. Artistic license isn't just granted, sometimes it's required. If you want totally photo-real, buy a camera. If you want awesome lighting on a dragon sitting on top of a ruin, then you're going to need to take artistic license because even using the most gee-whiz un-biased renderers isn't going to make your fantasy image come to life or look alive. How you light it will.
Using the spot light as an example, none of these renders would look right without spotlights. The Bikini Car wash picture is the most subtle use of spotlights in the bunch. I use it to help illuminate the guy in the car so half his face isn't blacked out. I used Carrara and a partial GI setting called skylight which allows you to use HDRIs, simple images, colors, color gradients and in this case, a realistic sky to generate the look of omni-directional atmospheric light. The thing it doesn't do is calculate reflected light, so I used a couple spotlights to fill in where the shadows were too deep. The other images use spot-lights more for effects than primary lighting.
The point is, don't be afraid to experiment a little. If it doesn't work, the only thing you've lost is some time and added a bit to your electric bill, but you have the advantage of having learned something and maybe generated an idea or two of where it may work.
As long as it was posted first in the Contest thread you can put it up anywhere after that
Be sure to check the rules of any contest you enter. Some do say that you can't post elsewhere until the contest is closed...or even not until results have been announced.
Good points, evilproducer, and nice examples. For some reason this reminded me of Szark's thread "Somethings to consider when starting to learn CG." It's worth a read if any of you haven't done so yet...and maybe a second look even if you have. Good discussion of lighting, among other things.
I agree with this 100%. My real point was that for me, it seems many people gravitate to spot lights as their first choice. I use them, but if it isn't a situation where there would be a spot light naturally, I add them after all of my other lights when I've decided that a spot light is specifically what I need for a particular effect.
I'm glad you expanded on that, and with great images as I wouldn't want to limit anyone's kit, but rather perhaps suggest they consider what they grab for first when approaching a lighting task.
I agree with this 100%. My real point was that for me, it seems many people gravitate to spot lights as their first choice. I use them, but if it isn't a situation where there would be a spot light naturally, I add them after all of my other lights when I've decided that a spot light is specifically what I need for a particular effect.
I'm glad you expanded on that, and with great images as I wouldn't want to limit anyone's kit, but rather perhaps suggest they consider what they grab for first when approaching a lighting task.
Would it be self-serving of me to say that great minds think alike? ;-)
Well thank you, I take that as a compliment :)
I suggested Spots to a New User that I have no idea of their skill level. So I kept my advice on a New User level. And as we see they were able to move ahead with their render project. I'm happy.
I thought your advice was fine. I was trying to throw some things out for people to consider as that was the idea of the exercise, but perhaps my advice was a bit advanced for here. I try not to prejudge though, and leave it up to the people on the receiving end to consider or pass over.
Well Jaderail, you earned your Moderator status helping others and I like many were glad to see you get it. :)
Scott The fire lighting the area around the fireplace is the effect I was going for but I am still having issues with lighting groups in Luxrender, for some reason it has both the lights in the fireplace grouped together and so I am unable to change their intensity in the renderer the way I would like. I will eventually lower the main light when I add some candles to the room.
Question authority, man! Who cares if he's part of the Blue Man Group!
So here's my question: Do you like to use IBL, regular lights, or a combination?
Not sure who the question was addressed to but my defaults are pretty much what AoA described earlier except he added a couple of tricks I hadn't gotten to yet :)
That is, my basic go-to is UE for ambient level with a Distant for sun outside, UE ambient with whatever lights are appropriate for the scene inside.. Some people might be tired of seeing me reference these, but they are good examples: a) The Armoury, Scene 01 which was many lights, and this schoolroom scene, which is UE with a single distant with an enclosed space, thus all light is some ambient with the rest through the windows. As for IBL, I use it off and on depending on the scene.
I use a Combo for All real work, UE, distant and Point or spots depending on the scene. For fast just trying renders I'll toss in a 3 point to 7 point rig (mostly spots) and play till I'm happy with the look. I'm also not against using Lighting that comes with sets like Easy Enviro, or others but I do add lights and tweaks most if not all of the time.
I redid the lighting for the fire and like what I came up with...it was to easy to have done it first. I removed the two lights I was using and just put a single point light just above the fire, scaled it down to like 1% then cloned it out in gimp post production. It was just a tiny dot in the bright part of the fire so it was easy to remove. This allowed me to brighten it up and dim the other lights.
Thanx Gedd and Scott, here is another try. I added a spotlight from above the couple, turned up the intensity for the spotlight on her face, changed the color to black on the UberEnvironment2 setting and pointed the distant light down towards the street in front of the couple. I also had a point light right above the couple but had to turn it off. I guess the two lights from above were clashing because I was getting a very bright spot appearing in the render where the point light was. also added more fog trying for a more dramatic look.:cheese:
So I've read just about everything I can find on the subject of lighting and been playing with a few different ideas. This is the best of them so far. There are nine separate spotlights and five point lights used in this image even though I could have probably got a similar result with just one spotlight. Three spots on the curtains, three on the mic and three on the actor. Five point lights are set across the front of the stage as footlights and dialed right down low.
That is really, really nice!
Very nicely done
Thanks EP and Frank.
This is one that I am struggling with at the moment. I am having trouble getting realistic lighting to reflect in the mirrors and any advice would be hugely appreciated, keep in mind this is still basically in the conceptual stage so there are still a lot of other issues to address but just interested in lighting advice for now. Thanks.
Image Removed by Moderator Please read this http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3279_506/
The thing to remember is that most 3D rendering programs are art programs first and foremost. No matter if you use all the wiz-bang fancy rendering features the light is not going to be real-world accurate. The best they can do is get it looking good enough. Okay, I'm done pontificating. ;-)
I'm not sure what software you're using, but if it's possible I would add a spotlight for each mirror and aim it straight out from the mirror. If it's possible to place the spot behind the mirror and exclude the mirror from the light, then I would do that.
I would adjust the spread of the spotlights as far as they will go and adjust the angular fall-off (which is how soft or hard the edge of the light will be) to a high number- say 85%. Reduce the intensity of the light to around 10% at first. Remember you will have multiple spots so you don't want to wash out the figure. You can always increase or decrease the intensity. The light color should be similar to what's reflected in the mirror, just maybe not as saturated.
Finally, when you have the lights positioned and the intensity and colors the way you want, turn on raytraced soft shadows for the finished render. I don't know if you can set the light radius in your software for soft shadows, but if the mirror is 2 ft across I would set the light radius to that. Or you could go by height for the radius.
I haven't suggested a tube light or shape light because they light all the way 'round and could create unwanted highlights or reflections in the mirror's surface.
Thanks EP.
I am using DAZ 4.6, rendering with 3Delight. I will try your suggestions, currently there is a large point light in the centre of the room eminating from the rooms main light fitting and a spot above and just in front of each mirror (3 in total).
I realize that the reflection will not be as clear as it is in real life but I have seen them a lot closer than what I have here. Again, thanks for the advice, much appreciated.
Ned we on the Mod team have removed the posted image. At this time G-string type undies are not allowed by the TOS. If you use a Swimsuit or other bottom covering type of garment you will be fine. It's a very good render and Idea. I hope to see it back soon.
Well I have an image I was working on that is related to this contest and thought people might be interested, but it contains 'mild' nudity so I have a link to my dA site if anyone is interested.
There are 12 area lights, 7 LP lights, a Distant 'moon' and UE.
The area lights include ambient, opacity, color maps, translucency, custom falloffs (important so the lights don't bleed across the whole image...)
All lights have raytraced shadows except UE which is AO+directional.
Various surfaces were tweaked to respond to the lighting in the desired manner. The water in particular was totally redone.
Stars and clouds were added in post.
Setup time was around 20+ hrs due to much of it requiring fine tuning at close to full resolution.
Render time was 4.5 hours
[Edit] Image included here (thanks to Jaderail.) Slightly higher res then the dA version. This image, like the Armoury image were meant to be displayed large, they loose much of the effect when sized down.