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...yeah not sure what to do about the poor anti aliasing. Have the 3DL pixel sample rate set at 32 as well as turned the IBL samples to 32 (from 128) and it still crawls once it reaches 74%. Almost wish there was a bottom to top render pattern as the book bag is on the ground. Spot rendering doesn't always give the same result as a full render.
A user had a problem with similar black spots using Toony Cam Pro for lineart. This thread: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/101201/please-help-my-gundam-has-random-black-spots That's the only similar problem I've found so far other than a problem earlier in another thread. I don't know if a solution was found.
Sven,
I'm very sorry you are having troubles and I have been looking into this issue with artifacts as well. But I've also had my hands full with other things, some of which include improving documentation and rewriting an FAQ, otherwise I would have responded sooner. Since capitalizing whole words is considered yelling and you are talking about this becoming a "gamebreaker", it seems pretty clear you are unhappy with the product. If so, maybe returning IBL Master and getting your money back would be the best thing to do.
At this time I cannot offer you additional advice on how to work around the issue. It is definitely something that will command my attention, since it is the first issue which I am able to repeat in my environment. However, since this is an advanced shader based on advice from the top experts at 3Delight, it is likely that I may need to turn to them for help, and their time is more limited than mine. So I cannot give a timeline for when this might be remedied. All I can say is I will do my best.
Now, to all who are expecting to get free technical support from this thread, now seems like a good time to repeat what I said in my post on page 11:
Please note (disclaimer): *** Free technical support for IBL Master in this thread is not included when you purchase this product. Like all products sold at Daz (unless otherwise stated by the author), official technical support is provided by Daz through the Help Center.
Any effort I make to help beyond the documentation I provided, is purely out of a desire to be helpful. I can't sustain the level of support I've provided here initially because I would go broke. Further, I must add that I will not continue to help folks who jump to conclusions and start blaming me or this product for things unsubstantiated and beyond my control. I'm not trying to be mean, I just don't have the time to ferret out solutions for things beyond the scope of this product, particularly if you can't/won't provide me with a means to reproduce the issue.
So in a nutshell, this thread is a place where you can ask for help, and maybe I or someone else will help you. But please be kind and be patient. That is the best way to insure someone will be giving of their time.
@Parris
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond! I apologize for "yelling", that was not my intention at all. Nor do I have the intention to ask for a refund because a) I am still amazed by this product on the whole, and b) I want to support any vendor that supports my favorite render engine. Now I know that you are aware of the issue and that you can repeat it as you said. I just felt a little desperate after struggeling to find a fix, thinking it's maybe something on my side or some settings I've missed;) I want to thank you once more for the your patience here in this thread and understand that you have to move on. It is what it is right now and I hope someone will find a workaround or fix in the future. And if you say you will do your best that's more than enough for me!
All the best,
Sven
..for my situation it has to be some sort of sampling/lighting issue, just haven't found a solution yet.
You mentioned you had the pixel samples in rendering settings at 32x32? And progressive mode? I mean that's a lot, I rarely have to set them to more than 12x12, maybe with a really strong DOF. 10x10 should be more than enough. I've noticed though that upping the IBLM light diffuse samples to atleast 32 helps with grain in shaded areas. Still renders pretty fast IMO. Maybe post a new render to show what's going on?
On a side note I find it strange that your progressive renders take longer than the default, The trend for me is that progressive renders 3 times faster in general. Different content of course, maybe different shaders, I don't know.
@kyoto kid Have you tried different filters in default mode? I like to use the Catmull-rom at 2x2. Also sinc works quite well as long as you don't up it too much, that will make it "ring" which can be ugly:)
...when I had the render pixel samples at default value (4 x 4) setting the IBLM light samples at 32 still produced a lot of graininess which didn't clear up until I pumped that value higher. I also thought in a previous post, you mentioned to increase the pixel samples to help clean up the anti aliasing matter.
Yes That's right but 4x4 is the absolute minimum as I see it and after 12x12 is hard to see any improvement unless you want a really blurry background. And the IBLM diffuse samples is a different story, lol. I've noticed that I want to set it to atleast 64 when redering a close up or large size render. I've also been testing the specular 2 option and it's really nice, gives my skins a new dimension. The default spec samples are 8 IIRC but setting them to 16 makes for a better quality. (at the cost of a bit longer rendertimes)
ETA: And some HDRIs produce more grain, depending on size and/or resolution it seems.
...running a test with the suggested filter however it's still in the optimisation pass barely half way through.
Even at 16 samples the "jaggieness" was still there, which is why I upped it to 32.
Thanks Kevin for trying to help:) Yeah this is a tough one it seems. But I'm sure someone will find a solution sooner or later
.
...yeah tried all the other filters and no dice. Seems I'm stuck with long rendering times in Progressive mode to get a clean image. A pain because ILBM is so much more accurate than the AoA ambient light.
I just don't know why once the progressive render reaches 74% it goes extremely slow from that point. Also after it reaches that point it looks looks like it is still functioning in bucket mode as when I change the render direction, the rendering follows that same pattern. (zig-zag, horizontal, vertical etc). I thought it was supposed to work more like Iray or Lux where the overall image becomes clearer as it progresses.
Yes I love how it looks, and one doesn't have to worry about transmaps and flagging;) But it's obvious IBLM likes progressive rendering. Atleast on my Imac.
Yep the patterns are the same, and unfortunally it makes only 4 passes or something like that. It used to do more passes but it changed after DS 4.7 I think.
...ahh I'm on a PC with a first generation i7 930 (2.8 GHz and X58 chipset), not sure if that makes a difference.
The Progressive test I ran at 32 pixels and 32 samples 1 hr 4 min (I also turned off the hair on the characters well as the mirror at the street corner or it would have taken even longer) and the the highlight is still awfully jagged.
So it's pretty much means sticking with Default render mode having to hand paint (which I am terrible at as I don't have a steady hand) the artefacts out in a 2D app as I have no other way I can think of to eliminate them.
Here just the schoolbag excerpted from the full image:
Image 1: Default mode,
Image 2: Progressive mode at 32 pixel samples, 32 IBL samples
Aah interesting, I can see the progressive is more jagged. I don't get the same results, it maybe hardware related then? I no very little about those things but that image in progressive mode on my machine shouldn't take longer than 20 min. or so. Well afraid I'm running out of ideas then:( Postwork of course, the artifacts should be easy enough to get rid of and gaussian blur of course. I've not had the antialiasing issue, only if doing testrenders with samplepixels at 4x4 or lower both in default and progressive. One thing with progressive is it uses a filter that can't be changed without scripting and I'm terrible at those things.
...same here when it comes to scripting. I'd be satisfied if I could just get rid of those shadow artefacts in Default mode. I may bring this up on the 3DL thread and see what the experts say.
Good idea! You could try change the camera angle and do a spotrender to see if it goes away. Or rotate the character with the problem and correct the eyes to compensate.
...just posted the situation to the 3DL Laboratory thread with the same two attachments plus the default mode one with the shadow artefacts.
...well, tried everything I could think of, from changing the position of the one character slightly, to changing the camera position slightly, adjusting the shadow bias, increasing the render SubD, removing the normal maps, even going into the character mesh and softening the collarbone, but nothing seems to eliminate the artefacts save for decreasing the IBL shadow value to a ridiculously low level or going back to progressive mode and the trade off of poor anti aliasing along with render times almost as long as Iray.
When I did a closeup test, the artefacts did not appear, but after moving back to the primary camera position to render the entire scene, they returned.
A bit frustrated by beating my head against a brick wall on this for two evenings now.
I've been skipping around, KK, but have you tried rendering larger and then resizing the rendered image to the desired resolution. That should get rid of any remaining jaggies. I can barely see any at all anyway.
I would be more than a bit frustrated at that point.
And I think you may really be up against a brick wall with trying to get the artifact to disappear without switching to Progressive, since the artifacting is a known issue that might only be properly fixed by correcting it in the light shader or programmatically. At the moment, it seems like there might be more wiggle room and value in figuring out why Progressive is taking so long in your scene or whether it is possible to get the schoolbag to render in Progressive without the poor antialiasing.
It was a good move to post in the 3DL Lab Thread , but I think the challenge for the helper, either there or here, will be in trying to offer a solution based on what you are sharing. Your descriptions are very detailed, but it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. For instance, my Mom can describe the problem she's having with her computer in a very detailed way over the phone, but sometimes I still just need to actually be in front of her computer to see that little something not described in her words.
I'm not sure if you saw my earlier reply here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/3219456/#Comment_3219456 , but I was asking for a screenshot of your render settings among other things. Even better though would be if you could share a scene file with me with just the figure and camera (with the artifact issue) or just the schoolbag and the camera (with the antialiasing issue) and of course I would need you to tell me what those are first, so I can determine if I have them already or need to make a purchase.
As for editing out the artifact in post work for this one render, I would be happy to do that for you as I have below at whatever resolution you desire (best to provide your render to me as a PNG, so it doesn't degrade like the JPEG).
Off topic, I can't ever stop looking at the animation in your signature. So marvelous! I'm like a bug banging up against a lightbulb with it. I'm mesmorized.
Sven, thank you for your kind reply, and your testing/ reporting efforts. I also really appreciate the help you have offered others. You will be the first to know when/if I have a fix or better workaround. The best to you as well!
Another problem I didn't mention is that I stopped getting email notifications when new posts are submitted to this thread. Still trying to figure out why that happens and how to fix it ...
Not sure if you saw, but the jaggies KK is refering to are in the scoolbag top edge highlight Progressive render (left) vs Progressive off (no jaggies, right).
One thing that separates this product from other light sets (or any other product for DS, for that matter) is Bidirectional Remote Control, which is script based. So a wild guess might be that there is a conflict between your script and the ones that IBL Master loads. Really hard to say though without knowing specifically what you are doing (script load of a file?). If you submitted the issue to Daz through the Help Center, they would likely ask for a log file or a crash log so they could see if there is a bug with the shader or the scripts. I would need the same. If you can consistently get crashes and can give exact steps, then there's a good change it can be figured out and remedied. Otherwise, you/we might not get anywhere with it.
Hi Parris, Thanks for commenting. For the time being I've just been loading up the file from the Content Library directly. The script I'm talking about is when you create a file you wish to access quickly where ever you are in the Content Library or a shader you use allot you just right click on the file and choose "create custom action" and so I guess a script is created from that. That's what I was referring too... sorry I wasn't more clear. I'm in the middle of getting a character presets set up so I just need to get that done before delving into this issue with IBL Master further.
I see it there now, Parris. They were maybe too small before? KK can always see noise or artifacts where I don't notice it.
Can anyone tell me which HDR sets works correctly with this rig that Parris created? I've tried MANY of the freebies I've downoaded and my main character looks like an ant and never looks like shes on the ground, always floating. For promos I've just used the default DAZ Studio one which is a blurred background so that's not a big deal but if I want to use a highly detauled HDR, say a beach scene like Malibu_Overlook I can never get her situatated like shes on the beach. I've tried using the translations tools but all I end up with is a deformed background as I keep using the Y Tranlation to try to get the ground to meet her feet. It's not like I'm zoomed way out but I have her body centered in the camera lens for the promo but she's floating. The scene itself is HUGE. I've tried an indoor scene that's a total joke. There is Apartment one I have, the big screen TV is 3 times the size of her body so that's nothing I can work with. So not sure how to make this work. I've tried it all.... nada!
Since Parris likes pictures here is a screen grab of my character in the viewport and Malibu HDR....
Here is a link to the HDR: https://github.com/portsmouth/envmaps/blob/master/Malibu_Overlook_8k.jpg The zip contains a proper HDR file as well as this jpg! I found this using Google Search ...
Try starting with the following setup:
1. Position your camera at 0, 180, 0 (roughly eye level) and lock the translations for each axis
2. Load your figure and position it at 0,0,-800
3. Adjust your camera's rotation (with the translations locked) until your figure comes into view
4. Make sure that the IBLMGoundPlane is underneath the feet of your figure
These settings may need to be adjusted, but this should be a good place to start. Play with changing the cam's focal length from the default 65mm and take note of the changes. Likewise, change the cam's vertical position and the figure's distance from the cam and take note of the changes. All of these changes will effect the figures aparent scale relative to the HDRI bacause it's not a true 3D environment. This is a complex topic that can be difficult to visualize, but I hope this helps.
- Greg
ETA: Just downloaded the file and took a quick peek, and from the looks of it, I'll bet you're trying to get your babe to be standing right on the edge of the cliff with the ocean behind? Unforunately, that's where the cam was positioned when the image was captured - this means the your babe can't be standing there.
If you spin the HDRI around so that it's facing inland, you'll find that you'll be able to position her along the path leading to the table no problem. This is actually an extremely useful lesson for those looking to shoot panoramas/HDRI of there own:
Don't position your camera where you want your render subjects to end up!
...thank you for the input. Getting images of all the render settings is a bit of a chore as I have to do multiple screen captures and then edit each one by hand in a 2D programme. I wish I could open all the settings at the same time (like the parameter settings) and do a single capture, but opening one category of render settings closes the previous one.
My concern is not just this scene but will it occur on future scenes as well? Again this really makes scenes come alive and in default mode is much faster and less of a pain to set up than using UE.
I have become frustrated with the overly long CPU render times in Iray (I have an old first generation 4 core i7 and only 12 GB of DDR3 memory [which becomes 10.5 GB after Windows and system utilities], because of which, the Iray process often dumps to even slower swap mode). Granted it are not as glacial as Reality Lux was, but when even a test render takes a couple hours, that has a big hit to the workflow. I cannot afford a fast high memory GPU card like a 1070 or 1080 Ti to speed this process up, or Octane Render which tends to be more efficient handling the memory load when it exceeds the VRAM of my old 750 Ti. This is part of why I look to return to 3DL for most of my illustration purposes, the other is I can use a number of "in render" effects and styles that would have to be done in post if I rendered in Iray.
Oh, that little GIF in the signature is courtesy of Pixar My system doesn't have the power to do that. The one motion blur (5 frames) scene I did of the character took 16.5 hours in 3DL with UE, mainly because of the hair.
...I'm already rendering the scene at 1,200 x 900. Yeah particularly having worked with Iray and before that LuxRender has sharpened my eye for imperfections and noise.
It's sad that the 3DL Progressive moded doesn't have an Anti Aliasing pass like Bryce's engine does.