A tool which prevents two items intersecting....
IsaacNewton
Posts: 1,300
Are there any clever PAs out there who could make a tool which reads the verticies of an object or figure (such as clothing or hair) and pushes them away from the mesh of a specified second object such as the figure to which the clothing is conformed. Ideally the user would be able to select each object which the first (clothing) object must not intersect with. (apologies for the bad grammar). A "Don't intersect with any other object" button would be useful.
This tool would be extremely useful in conjuction with dForce clothing simulations where having a part of a clothing item intersect with the figure prevents the simulation working properly, or even causes DS to crash!
The tool could also be used to eliminate poke through!
The tool would need to caclulate the position of each vertex in the clothing item and if it intersects with the other mesh, then just push it a little bit out. Of course, if the clothing were trapped between two parts of the figure mesh, say the arm and the abdomen, which were also intersecting each other then this action would be impossible. So ideally the tool would also be able to scan an object, say the figure, and ensure than no self intersection were taking place, and correct it by deforming the mesh if it was occurring; a self collision check, as it were.
I would pay good money for such a tool.
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Comments
That is the direction the DAZ Studio developers are already going with dForce but it takes a while because it is a lot of math that must be simplied for it to work on a computer.
The math has been worked out already. There are papers already published describing how to do it. There are also other applicatons that have implemented it and have it working in real time; check out Marvelous Designer as an example.
Thanks, I'd like to buy Marvelous Designer someday but when and if dForce & Hexagon get up to speed that might not be needed. Model dynamic clothing, dynamic hair, and apply soft body physics to the right places on objects right in Hexagon & DAZ Studio! I already avoided buying VWM or whatever that plugin at Rendo is called.
Modeler is having hard time manipulating the wrap dress in MD.
I think we can safely guess DAz knows too but it will take some development & testing time with dForce. Make sure to report dForce bugs to DAZ so they can fix.
nonesuch00 wrote: "when and if dForce & Hexagon get up to speed that might not be needed" There is the crux of the matter. Probably when rather than if, but I do have a limited life span
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I know what you mean about the modeller struggling to manipulate the wrap dress, but the point is the technology to do that exists and has been implemented. My guess is that it is a question of patent/copyright issues. DAZ may well be trying to implement the basic mathematical ideas in a novel way so that they a) don't infringe the rights of others or have to pay a licence, and/or b) can get Intellectual Property rights on their own system so that no one can copy their novel system. If that is true and given a limited budget, it could be a long time before we see the kind of real-time cloth handling features which are currently available elsewhere.
I can feel some people itching to say "Yeah, but DAZ Studio is free and Marvelous Designer alone will cost you 390 bucks!"
My reply would be that that is an unfair comparison, since the companies owning those products clearly have different business models. It will come as no surprise to anyone that DAZ makes it's profits primarily from sales of props, figures, textures and plugins for DS. They clearly use part of those profits to fund the development of DS, Hexagon etc.
Personally I'd be happier to pay several hundred bucks for a top flight version of DS with all the features people keep asking for, if not in one package, then at least as modules. In that business model they could afford to develop DS and their other core programs faster and better than at present, and would be able to reduce the price of props, figures, textures etc.
Of course DAZ appears to take a different view.
So in the meantime... I make a plea for a PA to design a plugin to do the job as a stop-gap.
The laws of physics are what they are and one can't stop another from expressing their existence mathematically. They just can't reverse engineer someone else's code. I'm sure these formulas have been derived several times each at public research unversities world wide and were based on prior cumulative mathematical proofs of physics laws.
They already tried that about 6 years ago. There was the basic free version, and two pay tiers. It may have helps a bit, but for whatever reason, they went back to the entire DAZ Studio being free.
DS beta, 1 and 2 were completely free. DS3 had a standard free version and a "pay for" Advanced version with 64 bits support and some other tools included.
DS4 initially had the standard free version, and pay-for "Advanced" and "Pro" versions.
IMO one of the reasons they made DS4 Pro free was to help with Genesis adoption:
Autofit and the content creation tools were not included in the free "standard" version. Making the pro version free meant that all end users had autofit, so they were more likely to try Genesis, and that all content creators had the tools needed to create content for Genesis, so they could try them without having to invest more money.
"Making the pro version free meant that all end users had autofit, so they were more likely to try Genesis, and that all content creators had the tools needed to create content for Genesis, so they could try them without having to invest more money."
That may have been true for the original Genesis, but with recent versions of Genesis, especially 3 and 8, in order to gain access to "the tools needed to create content..." you have to be a DAZ3d PA. Sculpting HD morphs for genesis 3/8 figures is not possible for non-DAZ PAs. Not all content creators are equal! Essentially, if you want to make HD morphs for the Genesis family you have to be a DAZ3d PA. I could accept that as reasonable for commercial use (selling morphs). I can understand the idea that DAZ3d don't particularly like the idea of third parties making money from their figures. (as was mostly the case with V4) However the current restriction also prevents DAZ3d clients from making HD morphs by sculpting even for their own use... unless you are a DAZ PA.
Personally, I would pay extra for access to HD sculpting for non-commercial use. However, it does not appear that DAZ wants to go down that pathway.
If that is true just sculpt an original non-HD character, submit it to the DAZ Store, and once accepted, sculpt extended HD morphs to it. Although from what I've read & seen in the forums HD morphs are similar to projection morphs which sound similar to how displacement maps work anyway, which no one is prevented from doing without being a DAZ PA.
I think you missed the point that I don't want to be a PA.
Sculpting a low resolution projection morph is certainly not the same as sculpting a high resolution morph.
When did anyone say that projection morphs were low res? I could have sworn that Male-M3dia kept pointing out that the HD process required both a low res "cage" morph and a higher res HD morph.
Since any morph that is sculpted on a low rez mesh will lead to a low rez morph without access to HD technology. If this is wrong please provide an example/tutorial to show otherwise. I'd be delighted to eat humble pie on this one!!
You never mentioned one way or another about being a PA.
Got news for you - projecting a displacement would like be much higher res and more accurate that anybody's hand doing hi-res sculpting. And when the projection algorithm for the displacement map that is used to create the HD morph on the mesh also allows the mesh being projected on to subdivde, then no: starting with a low-res cage is no different logically than box modelers starting with a cube when they start a new model.
YOu're not getting it; projection is taking a low detail mesh and applying the detail work in a higher detail version of the same mesh to it. Here is a Google search I did on how to do it; it has examples of how to accomplich this in a number of major applications. This is probably the same basic thing as what the HD tool does. https://www.google.com/search?q=projecting+high+detail+mesh+into+lower+detail+mesh&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1
Are you suggesting the following workflow? :
1) Send g3f (or whatever) to Zbrush/other modelling program e.g. by GoZ, in base resolution
2) Subdivide the figure in Zbrush
3) Sculpt detailed morph required.
4) Create a high resolution displacement map
5) In DS apply the high resolution displacement map to the original figure.
Is that what you mean?
Yes, that's possible if you are meticulous but first test how high that DAZ Genesis 8 models can subdivide after you have applied DO or PA HD morph(s) to them.
There is an upper limit to what DAZ Studio can do and that will depend on the model somewhat and that is also limited by what your computer and OS can do as well but I think for your purpose at the detail a person a can sculpt without pixel level zooming in, you can do such a work flow.
I'm not sure what you mean by " first test how high that DAZ Genesis 8 models can subdivide ". In Zbrush I can apply many levels of subdivision until there are millions of polygons, certainly way more levels of subdivision than I'll actually use (probably 3 or 4, maybe 5 or 6 at most). In DAZ, again, the levels of subdivision can be high if desired, but probably the standard High Rez is enough.