G8 Ankle Bends, am I the only one?
Brugan
Posts: 365
Am I the only one that thinks the ankle bend on G8 is wierd? This is one of the few big things holding me back from going all-in on G8, in every promo shot I see her feet look like paddles? Why the big step backward from G3 who had (in my opinion) the most natural bends of any generation? Am I just seeing things? Is there some special G8 bend slider that nobody is finding/using? Is it too late to fix this?
EDIT: Updated thread title so it looks less like a foot fetish question and more like the G8 ankle bend discussion it's supposed to be 
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Comments
You need to bend the metatarsals too, then you can get 'em almost the same shape as G3.
WOW! That really does make a difference!
Thanks Fisty I didn't even know about that bone group, I guess it's handled automagically in G3.
Why isn't anyone using that bone in their promos?
Should post a pic with the update - because that looks terrible. No wonder why I have seen some terrible ankle bends in the gallery and I think even a few promo shots with G8. I thought is was artists turning the limits off and going way past them.
LOL about the title. Dunno what it was before.
https://www.daz3d.com/capsces-variety-poses-and-expressions-for-genesis-8-female-and-victoria-8
Capsces makes good use of it in all her pose sets. The Monique ones in the pro bundle too, you just can't see it in the promos 'cause they're all shown in shoes for some reason.
Well, there's another thing about G8F's feet and ankles appearing smoother (less defined and consequently less real) than G3F.
G3 had a bone in the heel that moved in away that no human I've seen actually can. G8 does not have that bone.
That bone was tied into the foot bend. Metatarsals may also have been tied into the food bend, but this is, again, unrealistic, as anyonw can bend their ankle without pointing their toes.
As to why renders are up without the metatarsals being used, consider the number of poses that don;e employ the carpal bones in the hand, despite that fact that it results in much more realistic movement. What do these bones have in common? They aren't part of the selection map.
I tend to be pretty hard core about fiddly details and I still can bring myself to drill down to the level of most face bones because they aren't easy to access in my normal workflow. My guess is that the same applies here just different values of easy (it only takes on extra click to get to the tarsal/carpals with the scen view open. Toes/finger 1 bone on selection map, Scene view, the tarsal/carpal will be the item just above your selection. Getting to any particular face bone is a chore. But folks not usedd to thinking the tarsal/carpals are there my not even realize there's a path to them).
I see little things that suggest people with long experience don't know you can do things in DS, and every time I come here, I see something I didn't know about DS, which I promptly forget because I typical have no use for the data at that time. There are many things DS can do, and no manual. Using a fermi estimate, it's been seven years since DS moved away from the Poser model of figure design and PA still use poser based terms for thing, despite the fact that Studio doesn't. Most people, once they know a way to do the thing, they stop learning other ways to do the thing.
As for details in the ankles, see my sig. That script exploits the fact that most of the geometry between g3 and g8 is the same. And where it is not the same, manual intervention on my part was required to create a translation matrix. I can report that the ankles of the two figures are, in fact, identical. The major diferences are the eyes, upper cheeks, teeth, mouth, shoulders, fingernails and toenails, and of those, only the nails and eyes have different geometry. The rest are the same verts but slightly different positions.
What on earth do all your guys' feet look like when you bend them? Mine bend just like G8's except the heel doesn't go that close to 90 degrees. Victoria 4 and G3 look scary to me.
Gee, I'm not the only one that feels that way about it? Yeah, I get that people want what they want, but to me the G3 bends are more like those of someone that is heavyset than what a normal person is.
G3's looks the most natural to me.
me too
I think G3 looks the best as well. I think they changed it on G8 so it wouldn't distort shoes and footwear as much.
This thread made me curious, and after comparing and doing some renders of a few G8F characters' feet, I have to say I think G8's feet look just as natural as G3s.
Here are a few renders (left to right: Victoria 8, Monique 8, Base G8F, Aisling, Charlotte 8, Libby):
I am fine with the G8 feet, but I feel the heel is a bit too shallow. I just adjusted that with moving the highlighted bone a bit. I'm sure I can stand to do a little weight brush work on the lower leg. Thanks again DAZ for the change in direction of the nail geometry. No more overlapping geometry underneath the nail!!
Incredible detail! Is that a custom morph?
Agree with Divamakeup. Those feet look terrific :)
Laurie
Divamakeup,
Please tell us what your bend parameters are?
Hi Divamakeup and Laurie, the morphs are mine made in Zbrush. I used the V8 HD details. The details look pretty good for the feet. I shape my own toenails (make them more square). I really love the DAZ line of characters, and they have made alot of improvements to the feet, but I just take it a step further. I believe all showing parts of the body should be equally detailed to increase realism.
Thank you so much for the compliments!
I just did what @Fisty said above: "You need to bend the metatarsals too, then you can get 'em almost the same shape as G3."
Select the foot and in the "scene tab" use the arrow down and select the "metatarsals". You can then bend the metatarsals to the desired angle.
Here I bent it to 12, in the above feet renders I think I bent it around 16 or so.
Any chance you're going to be selling or sharing the morph? That's really outstanding and I'm sure I'm not the only person who'd pay good money for such realism with a feet morph! :) Hands and feet are often overlooked when it comes to morphs, and it can REALLY help add realism to renders to have more real looking hands and feet.
Thanks Divamakeup - I am considering it. If I do, you will be the first to know.
That would be great! :D
that absolutely would be great, Siciliano1969.
i really hope you will release the morph as a product...after seeing your work, i'd have it in my cart before the page had a chance to finish loading. :)
j