Carrara as main modeller

Chris Fox Art

This is something i am questioning myself and maybe someone can help me a bit more on finding out about this.
To be honest, as modelling goes, i have Carrara 8.5 Pro, Hexagon, Sculptris and Blender.
I just started a bit with Hexagon but for what i could see is that it works very similar like Carrara does.

There are a lot of modellers available and one seem to be better than the other, so some people prefer for example hexagon as main modeller and convert than to Carrara.
I also often saw people using ZBrush as modeller and converted than to Maya for example and it seem to be that many people are using ZBrush and that it is a great software but for me, it's too expensive and cost's much more than i could afford right now because of my choice of living a minimalistic life.
One thing that i know is great about ZBrush is the option to draw fibermesh hair, this is something i would wish as option in Carrara as well.

But i think all is just some kind of advertising like if you want to do this you should use this modeller and if you want to do that you should use that modeller.
I think right now, they are all just modellers and what is possible in one modeller can also be done in every other modeller too.
For example, i saw a few tutorials about modelling (not from Carrara) and i thought that Carrara should be able to do this as well.

These two links as an example of what i mean
http://www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tutorials/maya/cyborg-operator/cyborg.html
http://www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tutorials/max/hunter/hunter.html
http://www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tutorials/max/peugeot/peugeot.html

It all always begins with a cube shaped object, if you don't model with a backdrop image which i also like to do.

So is anybody using different kinds of modelers or have tested/worked with them?
What for example can one modeller do what you can't do in the other?
Why is for you this modeller better than the other?
 

pimpy

Hi Chris, answering to your question I think its depend on what you want to do.

For my personal experience I used Sculptris only for human or animals form. For all the others I use Wings3D and Carrara as modeler.

I used Silo a little, Hexagon, but like Sculpris, now I have a lot of trouble ….I cant more use it, crash and problems with my Win 8.1 ( hope in the new Hexagon). Sometimes I've also use blender as modeler and it works fine but usually use it only for rendering in cycle.

My workflow its generally in this way: Wings3D used as modeler; Carrara for refine the model and UV mapping; Final Rendering Carrara or Blender.

PhilW

I think you are partly right that modelling in one program can be very much like modelling in another and you can use the same techniques and approaches.  But in my view there are basically two styles of doing modelling, which I call Modelling and Sculpting, and the latter is a very different approach and that is what Zbrush is mostly used for.  Zbrush (and others such as 3D-Coat, Sculptris and Mudbox) take a more organic approach in which you have very high poly meshes (or use Voxels in the case of 3D-Coat) and can push, pull and move that mesh to produce your model, largely ignoring the underlying mesh topography. Having produced your model, you can usually retopologise it to produce a lower resolution mesh for use in other programs, and generate normal maps to account for the differences between the lower res mesh and the very high poly mesh. This approach is most suited to organic forms, but Zbrush has added a number of tools over its history to enable hard surface modelling as well.

That is a very different approach to the traditional modelling one, where you are very aware of exactly what polygons you are adding and where. Again within this there are different popular approaches such as box modelling (starting with a cube or other simple shape and extruding, moving and dividing to produce your model, basically producing a lo-res model and progressively adding detail where needed) or modelling from scratch, poly by poly, point by point.

If you watch a couple of Zbrush modelling videos (there are loads!) vs. traditional modelling, you will clearly see the radically different approach. Although Zbrush is expensive, it is hugely powerful if you can learn it (it's not the most straight-forward of programs to get into) and they have never yet charged for an upgrade, which is another plus point for it.

P.S.  For most of my day to day modelling needs, I use Carrara all the time.

TangoAlpha

I use a combination of Modo and Carrara. In many ways, Modo is a more polished version of Carrara: the same tools are there but often they have more options. Things that particularly make my life easier: Action Centres. Things rotate around or scale from or orient to the action centre. I can easily move that around from the object to the selection, to the global origin and a whole bunch more. One upshot of that is straightening out UV islands is really easy - I export objects from Carrara just to do that, & re-import them again!

Oh, and you know how in Carrara we like to keep modelling in the Assemble room? In Modo I can keep modelling in the UV Layout room too!

Another favourite: Falloffs. Carrara lets you define a falloff for soft selection. It's very simple and only allows you to extend or reduce it. In Modo a falloff is a thing in its own right. You can change its profile (linear, radial, path, noise, brush, etc) and apply it to pretty much everything. So you can scale with a falloff, rotate, move, whatever

Oh, Modo even has a procedural rock primitive!

Oh, and they fixed my bug report!

But one thing it's rubbish at (and conincidentally, Carrara is extremely good at), is resizing things to real world units. If I have a prop that I want to make 4ft across, that's actually quite difficult in Modo. But in Carrara, it's a piece of pi.. yellow snow!

And of course, Carrara has the tree editor, oceans, volumetric clouds, coming-soon-fluids etc.

Phil mentioned sculpting. Modo can do sculpting. So can Hexagon I believe, and of course Z-brush etc. Haven't done any sculpting, so I have no clue on the relative capabilities. But I'm sure one day I'll want to make that organic "thing" . . .

Dartanbeck

Have you tried Modo's procedural modeling workflow yet? I see that and I drool. The UV tools too. Well... Modo looks like it just plain rocks all the way around, with a loving pile of developer gurus giving it constant doses of lovin'.

That said, every time I think about getting a separate modeler, I ask myself if I really NEED to. Truth is, I love Carrara, and that applied to its modeling tools too. 

It's no Modo, though... I have no illusions of that. Lightwave has a lot of nicities that I know I would love too.

After spending the last seven, almost eight years with Carrara (very part-time, mind you) I know that I'll never invest in any of those high-priced (especially subscription-only) suites. Especially with Modo and Lightwave around. My current thoughts are that, if I was to add a new modeling suite to my flow, it would be Modo unless I just cannot afford it and Lightwave has an undeniable deal going on. But I'd still be using Carrara for many things I'm sure.

Chris Fox Art

Thanks a lot for your informations @pimpy, @PhilW, @TangoAlpha and @Dartanbeck

That sounds pretty interesting and i will take a look at Modo, but will also compare Hexagon a bit more to Carrara modeller too.
The only bad thing on Carrara is that it isn't really developed anymore, so there can't be any good improvements about modeling, sculpting and so on. Sometimes i wish they would just sell it or make it opensource that some company or at least somebody can work on it.

While i was doing my research i found a lot of softwares that seem to be very good.
Some of them are popular, like ZBrush, Cinema4D, Maya, Lightwave and so on and some of them i've never heard of them before, like Modo for example but also KeyShot from Luxion but there are always people who say this is a great one and that is a great one.
So i'm thankful that there are some people who have worked with some different modellers for a better understanding on the different options and possibilities :)
I saw that there is a 14 day free trial for ZBrush and maybe i should give it a try but i still should try to work a bit with Sculptris a bit more (i was just testing it right now).

Another software that seem to be pretty interesting (just for hair) was HairFarm (http://www.hair-farm.com/) but this is also one of the more expensive softwares or better to say plugin.
But for dynamic hair i will test out a (new for me) technique that could be interesting, i will make strand for strand seperate, not the full head and no hair groups because octane still don't like much hair groups but i hope it will like a lot seperate hairs :)

Dartanbeck

Yes, the professional modeler that first instructed my beginnings in 3D has now switched entirely from 3DS Max to ZBrush and loves it from initial polygonal modeling to tetxure creation and beyond.

Modo - from the way I understand it, the creators (The Foundry) used to work at or for Lightwave development team, but were dissatisfied with progress so they left to make a new start. It was an impressive alternative right from the start with such an active development core, and has been making attention-grabbing advanced with every development cycle since, They're fairl new on the market but making huge waves, gaining attention from the very top shelf of 3D pros. Many folks have left Maya for Modo - and it seems like once they do that, they never go back. 

Constant development cycle helps considerably to give artists new and quicker ways of doing things - true. But polygonal modeling has been given such excellent tools by the time Carrara got its major vertex modeler face-lift in its 5 Pro development that it still has what it takes to do some impressive work, as do others, like Silo, Lightwave (which is getting a new upgrade January 1st, 2018), Hexagon and others.

Blender should never be ignored in these conversations either. They've just made some impressive deals to get some paid support in improving just about everything about it - and it's already been a really strong contender - even sporting its own sculpting, painting, baking, PBR (as well as legacy) rendering and a whole slew of other improvements.

C4D looks pretty cool. The expense is right up there with others that, to me, make it a lot less desireable. For example, for that amount of cash, I'd likely lean more toward ZBrush or Modo - likely Modo - simply because they're so "On top of it" with keeping up with all of the modern trends.

Lightwave 2018 will also be sporting a new PBR engine with a sweet feature that can smooth out artifacts caused by such types of renders at lower settings - say, for preview or test render purposes. With the slightly lower price-point than most others, along with its enormous capabilities regarding animation, VFX, and all other things I'm into, their slower development cycle really doesn't distract me from looking in its direction. 

Being very much the Starving Artist type, I cannot go for those subscription gambles. What... if I don't pay my yearly dues my software not only doesn't get updated but it quits working entirely? I cannot risk that, personally.

I paid somewhere over $250ish, I think, for Carrara Pro and have been entirely (even overly so) satisfied, which says a lot these days. If I had to cough up several hundred per month, I doubt I'd be so happy. But then again, aside from not being able to afford those types of wares, I also cannot afford enough time to use them to make such a commitment worthwhile. So each person has to weigh the financial aspects individually.

Have you ever bought anything from Daz3d's DzFire? I've only ever bought his vehicles. They are incredible pieces. Finely crafted with morph-dial-controlled working suspension and other really nice features - especially for someone wishing to animate.

He does his modeling work in Hexagon. Funny - now that its gaining new development, it's also becoming Free! It's been a sweet deal all along - originally made by Eovia while they owned and developed Carrara.

Chris Fox Art

That is also a point for me, i don't want to pay for a software monthly or per year to be able to use it, that would be more an option if i would be an animation company who already makes a lot of money with 3D, so i always was looking for software with a good price for what it can do.
As Blender goes, there is one point that is really great, that it's free, there is also a free VRay for Blender so this seem to be very interesting but i've actually never worked with it before (i wanted to get good with one software first before i'll start with another one.
From DzFire i've only got Dystopia Kruger MK15

TangoAlpha

There's an Indie version of Modo on Steam, for about $15 a month. It has a few limitations but is good for most things. The only reason I feel justified spending $600 a year on the full version is I can claim it as a business expense.

Dartanbeck

TangoAlpha said:

There's an Indie version of Modo on Steam, for about $15 a month. It has a few limitations but is good for most things. The only reason I feel justified spending $600 a year on the full version is I can claim it as a business expense.

Right, but Modo does it better than most. We wouldn't have to opt for the subscription. We could instead buy a proprietary license and then to get updates pay a maintenance fee at that time, which is pretty cool. 

Modo Indie (at Steam Only) also has a proprietary license for $299.99 ($119.99 on sale now)

They also have the Modo + Mari (3D Painter) Bundle for $379.99 ($151.99 right now on sale)

And then they have their low-cost subscription plans for each.

Those Indie versions are an older version of the software and are limited in ways, but have a great price for those who just want to get their feet wet. Having to run Steam in order to use them would not be all that beneficial to me - I could be wrong. Silo is also sold through Steam, as with Howler and others. Just another app to be running in the background.

The full Modo perpetual license is $1799, which includes a One Year maintenance. For further maint, it's $399/year for existing perpetual license holders.

Lightwave 2015 is $995 for a perpetual license. 

Silo has a wonderful price (on sale for $99nnow) at their own web space, and looks to be an excellent 3D modeler and UV unwrapper

Silo has also just recieved an update and Nevercenter claims that they will continue to develop it with more updates

Here's the latest update

If you're truly looking for a new modeler beyond Carrara, check out the Silo YouTube playlists of features, tools and tutorials: Silo Playlist - Silo Tools Playlist

When ever I do this sort of shopping, I can never seem to stop noticing how much of this stuff I can already do easily in Carrara, which is the ONLY reason I don't already have Silo.