Generation 8 Advantages?
JasmineSkunk
Posts: 1,902
So...
Trying to get aquainted with all the new awesome that is Daz studio. The last time I used it, Genesis 2 was brand new. So, I missed all of Genesis 2 and 3. I have a buttload of content for Genesis 1, however, and I have a few questions.
Though I have learned that much of the clothing is usable going upward, and there are tutorials about how to share some content between generations, I would really be interested in the specific differences between them. What are the advantages of using Genesis 8, for example? What sort of improvements were made with each generation? I can see how the meshes have improved from 1 to 2, and even from 2 to 3, but I would really be interested in knowing what, if any, is the difference between 3 and 8, since they seem to be able to use the same hair, clothing, textures, etc.
Since I am beginning (again) it doesn't really matter to me that there is a new generation. I will be purchasing new content no matter what. But, I am trying to understand what it is that Generation 8 offers that Generation 3 does not, since currently there is so much more available for Gen 3.
Thanks, in advance! 
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Comments
There ought to be some pretty interesting answers for this.
There's more detail in the meshes for Gen 8 characters than previous and they look like they were created with more of an eye toward independent video game development. There's more articulation in the Gen 8's as well...however, just from that, there's not much else going for it.
I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions. Gen 4, Genesis 1 - 3, and some Gen 8 characters are really all I need to do a myraid of things. There's just so many fairy, vampire, demon, badass human or gorgoeus/handsome human that are not needed. And don't let me get started with the poses. Unless there are significant strides toward perfection, I'm done after the Gen 8 stuff.
However, hair and clothing are always welcomed surprises, especially since you can use things between all the genesis meshes as well as with some of the Gen 4 morphs.
Genesis 8 has better facial expressions. It also has better bends. Gen 8 has a lot in common with Gen 3, because it is Gen 3 with a few tweaks. Overall, I prefer Gen 8.
I prefer Gen 8 for the reasons Serene Night states
When I buy new content at full price then I only buy G8 stuff as autofit is hit and miss & when I pay full price I like things to just "work"
If stuff is on sale at a significant discount then I will buy it as I don't mind doing the extra work needed to get things to look OK.
So...??? I'm confused. LOL. It would seem to me that a figure made for gaming would require... less articulation and less detail. Is Genesis 8 LARGER? Wouldn't that make rendering it slower? What am I not understanding?
...I like to refer to G8 as G3.5.
The main differences between Genesis "Classic"/G2 and G3/G8 was Daz dropped the Tri-Ax weight map system for one that is more friendly for games and animation, skin mapping (Genesis/G2 skins don't work well with G3 without a third party script or a lot of work), and there are additional of bones in the torso and neck for better posing.
I am pretty much staying with G3 as I have a sizable investment in this generation with regards to merchant skin and morphing resource kits that I would have to purchase all over again for G8 as well as Dimension3D is no longer with us so there is some doubt there will be an upgrade to the GenX plugin (which I find extremely useful).
Umm?
Ok, I understand... I think.
Well, I understand that people have preferences, but that's not what I'm asking about. LOL Thanks, everyone for taking the time to help me understand, though.
If I am understanding this right, Genesis 8 doesn't use triax weight mapping system and has more bones for better posing. I don't really understand weight mapping... so what's the difference between them or the benefits of either?
Also... Anything else?
Really the most notable advantage of G8 is simply new content. Most of the new stuff is going to be for G8. If you wanna use it, maybe it'll work on G3 but why bother? G8 is free, might as well use it on that. Most G3 stuff is usable on G8 too, with the exception of shoes because we lost the heel bone. If you have a G3 skin, no need to use it on G8 just stick it on G3. There's absolutely no problem using G3 still while also using G8 alongside of it.
Sure there are some technical differences, but they are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. Nothing that a customer would really notice anyway. It's all in the content at the end of the day. Better expressions are really just exactly that, better content. There were no technical limitatons that I know of on G3 that made such expressions impossible. It's simply that Daz got better at making them, and on the next generation they may do better still. So much more advances than just technical mumbo jambo . Skill, creativity, artistry. I see a new generation as a clean new slate to start over and hopefully do better. And while that may not always succeed, at least that's the idea.
Well, I've already invested $$ in Genesis 8, buying various morph packages... So, I guess I'm just wanting assurance that I made the right choice! LOL
As I said previously, I don't currently have any money invested in Genesis 2 or 3, so the arguement, "sticking with 3 'cuz I have 3 content" doesn't ring true for me. I will be buying content no matter what, simply because much of what I have for Genesis 1... let's face it, wasn't the "best looking" stuff. The clothes are wonky, the hair for Genesis 1 was mostly hideous... unless you love toons... Which I DO!! but, still...
Yeah, I will be purchasing anyway.
I just wanted to know what the difference was between 3 and 8, I guess. Hoping I made the better choice to go with 8 from the start.
Some of the improvements in G8 is in expressions and correctives, with some muscle flexes as the figure is posed.
Thank you agent unawares and Male-M3dia. I think I understand... and feel good about deciding to go with 8!
Thank you, everyone!
If it were me and I was basically starting over from scratch, I'd go for Genesis 8 simply because it's the latest, greatest tech :). No other reason. LOL
Laurie
That's exactly what I was thinking when I bought that stuff for Genesis 8... but then I start seeing all these deals for Genesis 3 going on huge discount and wondered if I made the right choice and what their differences were, because I couldn't really notice anything playing with them both...
but..
just now noticing the improvements in bending makes me happy about my choice.
Now, I'll just have to be patient for the content to come out, I guess...
And who knows? Maybe if I can get caught up before Genesis 9 comes out, I may even venture into the idea of making content myself!
OK, I may be getting ahead of myself...LOL
Yeah, as stated above the main differences between G3 and G8 are the expressions, the bends (more natural muscle follow), as well as G8 no longer has the heel bone that G3 has, and G8 loads in the A pose. The last two, I THINK, are supposed to be in order to make content creation easier for the G8 line (but I could be wrong).
While there are improvements with G8, I think a couple people above are right in stating that it's more like Genesis 3.5. It's still an improved figure and my favorite. :)
Thanks, Divamakeup. I'm feeling better about going with Genesis 8, now.
You can use G3 content, so I still pick up any really nice G3 things that go on sale even though I only use G8. Characters, poses and hair, especially, as those are the easiest to convert.
Singular Blues script for converting morphs
SickleYield tutorial for converting wearables without AutoFit distortion
Most materials will work okay out of the box. For the ones that are hierarchical materials, they throw a fit when you try to load to G8 so you can load them to G3 first and copy over to G8, or save a normal materials preset from G3. The only ones that don't work are the ones with custom UVs. Luckily there were very few of these besides DAZ flagship figures, and for those there are these UV sets : male | female.
For poses I'm going to plug my own free converters because the hip joint corrections actually work better than the one for sale: male | female. Drawback is no batch conversion of whole folders, pro is they're just a dial you can set on the figure and all G3 poses just work without constantly running a script correction.
Hey! Thanks for those links, agent! Good to know!
Keep in mind that a lot of the G3 content works with G8 (including the G3 skin textures that use the G3 base UV - which is most of them). Much of the G3 clothing works with G8 too (but the shoes are hit and miss). So if you find great deals on G3 content that you can see yourself using with G8, you might consider it. :)
I understand!
And, yes... Still feeling good about my choice, knowing that most of what I might like for Genesis 3 will still work fairly easily with 8.
Thanks again, everyone, for helping me understand!
...the major change in weight map system occurred between G2 and G3 There are a few changes between G3 and G8 as others mentioned, but both use the exact same weight map structure.
I my case it is primarily an economic decision as I use a lot of merchant resources and plugins which tend to be more "generation specific" than clothing, hair, poses, and textures.
I totally understand your reasons for chosing to stick with Genesis 3. I just don't have that issue since I never bought anything for 2 or 3 at all, so that isn't a factor for me. Thanks for the info, though. You have ALL helped me understand and I appreciate it very much.
Pretty much this from what I read, although I think the change from the T pose to the A pose is to be more game content friendly.
It doesn't seem to be a big upgrade from Genesis 3, when it comes to creating still images. Genesis 3.5 is probably accurate. I'm really invested into Genesis 3, so while I've picked up V8 and a number of essentials I haven't really used it.
Unless you have the ability to support the older generations
yourself with content,
you will be better off investing in the newest figures.
I prefer G2-1 but I make my own clothing for them.
This is not an option for most
however so you should embrace
the newest generations for the easiest use of the latest store content .
Pretty much this from what I read, although I think the change from the T pose to the A pose is to be more game content friendly.
It doesn't seem to be a big upgrade from Genesis 3, when it comes to creating still images. Genesis 3.5 is probably accurate. I'm really invested into Genesis 3, so while I've picked up V8 and a number of essentials I haven't really used it.
If I were in your shoes, it's a big leap from Genesis 1, I would go with 8 as most new content will be geared towards it.
...true, coming back into this after a long absence going forward is definitely better. I have nothing against G8 just that I cannot afford the financial investment as well as time to rebuild all my characters over once again. I have to "drop anchor" somewhere so I can get on with my story and illustration work (and Iray threw something of a spanner in the works).
It really IS a big leap, huh? LOL And, yes, I agree: Genesis 8 will be the best for me. Thanks, again!
OH!! I am REALLY loving Iray, so far. Everything is so beautiful! I can't WAIT to learn it!
...it can produce some really incredible results and today there are a lot of resoruces for it we didn't have when it was first introduced. It can also be a real handful as I have found when you really want to push it (of course pushign hte parameters of 3DL can be tricky as well) . For example there is an ongoing thread that just deals with skin in Iray which at some times can get a bit technical on occasion (I've had the discussion go over my head several times).
The key is, think more like a photographer than a 3D artist.
??? I'm not sure I understand this statement.LOL
Whether rendering in 3DL, Reality, Renderman, Iray, etc... you have to think BOTH as a photographer and understand how each render engine works to mimic a camera's eye. Both 3DL and Iray require you to understand how each handles things like bounces of light and surfaces, etc. I think it's just a matter of learning how they each work, perhaps?
...Lighting in Iray is physically based like in the real world whereas the lights in 3DL are actually shaders as well. A lot of how to have a good looking image depends on adjusting the Tone Mapping in the Iray Render Settings tab. The primary controls are actually named just like controls of a camera: eg, Shutter Speed, Film Speed (ISO), f Stop.
A simpler method I learned for positioning the Iray sun where you want it is to use the Sun Dial (found in Render Presets in the Content Library tab) instead of dealing with the time/day month/coordinate system default in the Render Presets tab.