ok seriously. what are vue products doing in the daz store?
angusshmangus
Posts: 0
i nearly bought some plants but then thankfully realised at the last moment that it was for vue only. personally I hate vue. I bought a licence for a thousand dollars a few years ago and could never get it to work properly without crashing 50 times a day. Am I missing something? Are these vue plants compatible with daz studio as well?
cheers
Angus
Post edited by frank0314 on
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DAZ sell Vue 9 Frontier in the store as well, that is what these Vue items will be for. http://www.daz3d.com/vue-9-frontier
It is always a good idea to look at the Compatible 3D Software label on the Product Page, as DAZ also sell content for Poser only (Poser Dynamic Clothing), Carrara shaders and scene files, Bryce shaders and scene files and brushes for Photoshop among other things.
ok thanks for the info. It's just that whenever I see the word vue infinite my blood pressure goes through the roof. I came to daz to escape from vue as the software was killing my short film. anyway. fair enough. if daz can make money selling vue stuff then why not.
Just a side thought. Because daz now supports octane render which in my opinion is a very, very big deal it would be great if daz supported bryce files. in fact if i was daz management i would quit development of bryce and fold bryce into daz as another tabbed feature liek TERRAINS or something. I would also fold features from carrara especially bullet physics into daz and combine the 2 apps.
This is where iclone and source film maker are all heading. I still like daz more but i can see that it needs to introduce more capabilities to keep up. If I can render photoreal "bryce" landscapes inside of daz in near realtime or realtime using octane (which daz now supports), daz suddenly becomes a hollywood level feature film capable tool.
daz management listening? :)
just my 2 cents anyway.
cheers
angus
IF you check in the Bryce forum you will see that David Brinnen has been experimenting with using Octane with Bryce directly, without needing to use DS.. He has posted a series of comparisons in the Bryce render thread.
can't find it but i am still looking. I assume what he is doing is exporting meshes out of bryce and into the octane stand alone renderer. Bryce at present does not support a direct octane plugin and probably never will. the problem with using the standalone renderer with bryce terrains is that you cannot animate the camera! you can only create turntable animations or sun moving animations. this is extremely limiting and i have already been down this path with vue i.e exporingt vue terrains out of vue an into the stand alone renderer. There are just too many limitations and caveats for it to be of any real commercial use. for an artist creating stills, sure. for commercial animation projects, sorry but no.
i think daz studio has way more potential and a brighter future that either bryce or carrara. fold the two into daz i say and render out at using octane. in fact otoy are about to launch their cloud rendering service which will give people at home cheap more than currect hollywood level rendering capabilities for peanuts. prcing will begin around 1 dollar per gpu hour.
cheers
angus
Some of us happen to love Bryce (and Carrara) and would scream blue murder if DAZ 3D ever decided to do this.
Also of course using Octane does depend very much on ones set up and graphics card.
And I won't even go into how much very many people distrust the cloud as regards anything
We have had these suggestions on the forums for many years.
Some Carrara user wanted Hexagon integrated into Carrara, and others wanted most of DS in there as well. Bryce users seem happy enough with their lot, and there is a Bridge between DS - Bryce, and DS - Hexagon, which are both very useful in their own way.
I can't see any integration of DAZ software taking place in the future, but who knows what may happen. I think DS is complicated enough at the moment, and each new version adds moe and more options. At my age, I would be happy if software development stopped for a few years, and allowed me the time to catch up :)
are you serious? you don't trust the cloud to render animations? huh? we are talking about rendering animations. not personal banking details or medical records. and what do you think we are using right now to post these messages? the cloud. you are knocking and distrusting the very thing that allows us to communicate via this forum. or would you rather we send each other snail mail and yes. octane relies on the gpu. so what? that's exactly what makes it so fantastic. if you wan tto upgrade your rendering capabilites you just buy a new gpu. if you wan tto upgrade your cpu for old school rendering more often than not you have to throw your entire computer out (the motherboard at least) and the increase in rendering speed is so negligable its hardly even worth it. honestly. and if people love bryce so much then just leave the old version available for download.
hi jimmy
i hear what you are saying and can certainly sympathise. yes. I'm 40 and my brain is starting to creak and can certainly do with way simpler software. that being said. that is exactly why i came to daz. its unbelievably simple compared to max and maya. yes, folding those other applications into daz would make it more "complicated" however if you simply made them separate tabs on their own then people who didnt want to use those extra features would never have to look at them. just close the tab and its as if its not even there. the single biggest obstacle left , or at least was left was rendering speed. octane has now solved that. completely. and any gpu memory issues will be solved shortly by the cloud rendering service.
but i do know what you mean. as you said then other people would want hexagon and this and that included as well. where would it end? who gets to decide what apps would be folded into daz?
still. food for thought though
angus
Octane ties you to a particular make of Graphic card. Strangely enough many people use different makes of card and are happy with the cards they have on board.
Edited to add As Jimmy says there have been similar discussions time and time again on the forums. Most people are very much against a "One size fits all" solution and prefer to use separate, dedicated, programs which are good at what they are meant for rahter than a JOAT type solution which does many things but not as well.
This is mainly a hobbyist market after all, even though many people do use the tools they already have in a Commercial environment.
sooooo? your point is.....
so let me get this straight. You dont trust the cloud but you work as an administrator for a cloud based forum for a company that is partially cloud based with it's 3d content store and you are somehow against gpu rendering which allows for realtime path traced rendering at a buck an hour. and by the way, "and strangely enough" the cloud based octane/otoy service makes your make of card irrelevant. and how many makes of cards are there? Nvidia and ATI and that's basically it.
seriously chohole. I don't know what you are doing working as an administrator for daz 3d. your viewpoint is like an athiest standing in for the pope.
cheers
angus
My point is that only a percentage of people have Nvida graphics cards, ao tieing DS to those people would be rather short sighted.
And BTW I am a Moderator, part of the Forum admin team.
but i never suggested tying daz studio to octane. octane is a PLUGIN. if you dont want to use it, then DON"T BUY IT. octane is for rendering only. if you want to still render using the cpu in daz then be my guest.
I suggested folding other apps into daz like bryce. Not octane. octane is another entirely separate company. how could i recommend tying daz users to octane when it is an entirely separate company? go back and read the thread again. I think you have got your wires crossed with this discussion.
angus
Possibly, but there again I am a longstanding member of the Bryce Community, we are a well established Community and have been around for quite a few years before Daz Studio was ever thought of.
Das Studio was not ever meant to be an alternative to Bryce, rather an alternative to Poser.
For the Bryce Community who have been fighting for Bryce for a good many years now any suggestion along the lines of yours does tend to get very controversial, so I have been trying to work round that part of your original post, especially to a relative New User who possibly doesn't know the history of the programs in question.
Octane IS great and faster than my render set-up in DS/3Delight, but cloud rendering is against the DAZ3D license, so I'm not sure what it brings to the table.
fair enough comment. however I am all about moving forward. out with the old and in with the new. i am not one of these people that gets married to their software and becomes offended when other people comment on it's relevance or useability. times change and things change. i am only intersted in completing projects. the software is just a tool to me. i couldnt give a damn what i use. as long as it gets out of my way and lets me get the job done as quickly and painlessly as possible with minimal effort. daz does exaclty that for me. its very easy to use compared to max or maya. i can get stuff done quick with daz. with max or maya i will be an old man before i learn how to use them properly. for me those programs are an obstacle not a solution.
i do know what you mean as I said to Jimmy that yes it is better to have separate applications that specialise in functions and features. However its all opportunity vs cost. by having separate apps you keep them more simple so you gain but you then lose when it comes time to moving assets, geomtery etc to another app. then it all starts to fall apart. i cannot for example move instances of rocks and plants from bryce to daz. only terrains. and even that is buggy at best. when you try to use the programs together to create a single project that's when the hair starts to go grey and fall out. you may ask/say well you are supposed to move assets from daz to bryce but that is not a solution for me because bryce does not support octane. and i am sorry but the octane render engine is vastly superior to the bryce render engine. both in quality and speed. but that's ok. daz and bryce are great at other stuff. All I am saying is that i can see the potential of daz with octane, I have both licences now but octane for daz is still in beta and they are busy debugging as there are still a number of issues.
i need to create an area of the Sonoran desert in arizona for a short film and it needs to look photorealistic. the bryce render engine simply cannot do it and it would take forever. the octane render engine can. also if i was to render say 300 x 4K frames out of bryce how long would that take? probably weeks on a dual quad core and it still wouldnt look photorealistic. with octane on a high end card it would take a day or so, if that.
really? how so? where in the licence agreement does it say so? which page? And why on earth would that clause even be in there?
a debate about biased versus unbiased renderers has already been going on for some time in another thread in the Commons, wih input form users of various software.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/17205/
ok well i am done here anyway.
bye
Boiled
I don't trust the cloud. WHERE exactly is my stuff when it's in the "cloud"?
Also, I don't always have access to the internet, so I prefer being able to do my work offline. That's why Daz's new online Read Me's are so annoying.
It isn't a very good idea, for three reasons:
1) rewritting the code would take much more effort than DAZ3D can afford. They are not a big company and I assume there are only several people working on DS new features, tracking bugs, etc. Making them add existing functionality of Bryce (by means of rewritting the code or adding a new DS code to emulate Bryce features) would be extremely time-expensive. Bryce programmers, in case if there are any, won't be much of help. I suspect the code for both Bryce and DS is vastly different.
2) There is already plugin for DS to generate terrains.
http://www.daz3d.com/infinito-1-0
As well as procedural materials, volumetric lights and probably everything that Bryce has except of metaspheres.
Look at My Hair plugin, btw, can do instancing.
Of course, you'd like it for free as the rest of DS and this is might be the reason you don't want to pay for Bryce, I don't know.
3) as strange as it might sound to you, Bryce have people who like it for what it is - quick, flexible, fun program with severely outdated GUI. Same goes for Carrara. Folding any of them into DS is not only unreasonable from the point of effort, but it will divide the community (already split by 'Poser vs. DS' argument) and alienate existing costumers.
And frankly, I'm finding the position "You have to upgrade ALL THE TIME, it is so simple!" to be not a mature position. Not everybody can or want buy new computer every year - it isn't even always a point of emotional attachment or money, but sometimes of time spend on moving assets and reinstalling stuff. Not everybody want to trust the cloud due to variety of reasons. I, personally, would be happier if forums never run on those but I don't have a choice here. I do still have a choice of what software to use though.
i bought bryce years ago for 200 dollars. i dont know where you get the idea i want it for free. maybe you are projecting onto me.
2) There is already plugin for DS to generate terrains. - Great! I didnt know.
And frankly, I’m finding the position “You have to upgrade, it is so simple!” to be not a mature position
upgrade to what? where did i mention in my post that people have to upgrade? and what does upgrading have to do with maturity?
This comment "I don’t know what you are doing working as an administrator for daz 3d. your viewpoint is like an athiest standing in for the pope."
Cloud is also an technological upgrade which quite a lot of people are unwilling to use. Having no choice of using it as a part of the job doesn't equal to accepting it entirely.
My two pennorth. For what it is worth. Speaking as someone who uses, Wings 3D, Genetica, Grome 3D, Crazy Bump, HDRShop, IvyGenerator, Octane and few other little programs there with Bryce. The thing that DAZ 3D really need to do, in my view, is sort out the Import/Export capabilities, either within Bryce or via the DS Bridge.
Concatenating applications (I've some fairly extensive beta testing experience with not only Bryce but other apps) would be a developmental nightmare. With little to gain in terms of sympathy from the disparate user groups - I suspect.
All I need is that Bryce (for example) should be able to read and/or spit out content in formats that other applications can digest.
It pains me to see all that lovely content in the DAZ 3D shop when I am only too aware what a dogs dinner the DS bridge will make of it parsing it over to Bryce.
Fix the DS Bridge. That's my view. Or maybe it has been fixed with the latest DS update? You know what? I'd put money on it not being fixed. I'd be happy to be pleasantly surprised. Anyone?
just checked my old receipts. yeah you're right. I paid 150. So what? The fact is I paid for it. The amount is irrelevant. 150 - 200. its still a lot of money. . so my point remains equally valid. as for no cigar, you were insinuating I wanted daz or bryce for free which, not only is clearly not the case,l but you made an incorrect false assumption based upon your own bias which you then projected onto me.
also, as for your comment that my position is that I say it is easy to upgrade all the time. where on earth did you pull that from? nowhere in any of my posts did I say anythig about that everyone should upgrade all the time. I only said that upgrading a gpu is cheaper and more worthwhile than upgrading an entire pc. that is simply a fact. I havent upgraded my computers in 4 years. So not only did you miss the entire point I was making about gpu rendering being cheaper and faster and the cloud based version making upgrading your pc NOT necessary because all rendering is done remotely (you can even "render" on an ipad using the otoy service) but you then used your own false assumption but my "upgrade position" to justify your incorrect conclusion.
well anyway. to be honest i am done with this thread.
signing out
But you just confirmed that you point was, basically, "upgrade to using cloud, it is easy!" and -this- is what I was talking about. You berated people because they won't embrace the new technology, even if they has to use it on the line of work out of necessity.
Since the OP has stated a couple times he is done we are closing this thread.