Shader Builder vs Shader Mixer

trevorsimpson_49f7f49017

Hi Daz Community,
At the risk of this being a dumb question, can anybody explain the primary difference between Shader Builder vs Shader Mixer? I'm just starting to study (literally yesterday) how to create a custom shaders and to my amateur eye Mixer looks like a lite version of Builder.

Maybe a more concise question would be;

Is it worth learning the Shader Mixer interface as an entry level to Shader Builder or am I best off biting the bullet and starting and sticking with Shader Builder?

Any thoughts or tips would be appreciatted. Thank you.

T

Chohole

Poll removed. Please refer to bullet point #19 of the DAZ 3D froum TOS.

trevorsimpson_49f7f49017

Thank you Chohole.
Apologies, it won't happen again.

Cheers

T

kitakoredaz

I hope someone teach us about difference of two tools clear too.

I have many quesiton, (not how to ,, ) before start studying these two tools for making orignal shader.

1. all daz product shaders (include daz default shader) can be made or actually mady by these tools or not?

I know, some shader seems made by shader mixer, and some shader seems mady be shader bulider.

2 can shader bulider make more complicate shader.than shader mixer?

on the other hand shader mixer has good UI for biginner like join blick.
if I perfect understand each blicks of shader mixer ,, I can make all shader which made by shader bulider?

and user may be expected to make blicks by themselfs, if there is not one we need. but how can I make it?
do I need to learn another script ?

then,,, both tools are to write RenderMan Shading Language for RenderMan (3delight ), is it right ?
then the script is auto written when I make shader by shader mixer, or bulider, and compiled for 3dlights?

I know well,, I do not understand,,, so need help ^^;

Richard Haseltine

Shader Mixer uses pre-made bricks, which cannot be altered, to build its output and the shader is interpreted on-the-fly, at render time.

Shader Builder uses bricks which contain fragments of RSL code, which can be edited freely, to build it's output and the result is a compiled shader file, or raw RSL code for use with plain 3Delight.

Shader Builder is more fundamental, but requires greater knowledge, than Shader Mixer.

kitakoredaz

Thanks Richard,,
I understand,, blicks can not be altered but, user can apply custom blicks?
(I get shader mixer tutoriall,, then zigraphix apply new blick. to make custome shader by shader mixer (edit ^^;) (appendix))
is it written by daz script? create custom blick is more difficult to learn shader bulder?:ohh:

then,,, I checked ,, you told about pw surface2 in other topic,, which is made by shader bulider.
actually,, when I render the scene with pw surface2,everytime I see the log say "need compiling etc,,)

on the other hand every shader made by shader mixer need not compile? that means,, when I apply shader on surface,
then set property,, these property auto-compiled or already compiled and transfer directly renderer?

why daz default shaders need not compile? or human surface shaders?

why the shader which made by shader builder need compile? (though ds seems auto-compiling everytime I render,,)

the way to apply shader is perfect same,,,, I think,,,, @@;?

and we need to render to check the effect about these shaders (made by shader builder, and shader mixer)
usually we can not see all effect in 3d view,, that is why??
but about some product shader (tusually hey use ds default shader I think),
I can see clear, the effect and color etc.. so that I can adjust value more easy.
what cause these difference?

Richard Haseltine

pwSurface would have been made with a text editor, it was before Shader Builder. Shader Mixer does allow you to group bricks to create a compound macro brick that you need to use repeatedly, or you can create (most) of a new brick in Shader Builder (not something I've done, and I'm not certain it doesn't need some C++ code too).

The recompile warning for many shaders is because they were written for an older version of 3Delight and although they can be translated, a native version might be faster and better - so the warning reminds you of that. The shaders that don't give the warning, such as the DAZ Defualt, were already compiled for the new 3Delight. And not needing recompiling is one of the advantages of Shader Mixer, yes.

Yes, you need to render - the viewport is handled, I believe, by and OpenGL shader and custom shaders do not have that - though if their properties are named correctly they may show, at least somewhat.

kitakoredaz

mm,,OK I gradually understand what going on ^^;
then,, it may be my last question about these,,

II can import blicks of shader applied surface in crrent scene to shader mixer window,,
then if it can only work about shader which made by shader mixer? or when shader mixer have blicks which
have compatiblity of each shader property?

or every shader for 3delight can be import from scene, and re-use ,or re-arrange each blick in shader mixer ,?

Richard Haseltine

Only Shader Mixer and default DAZ Shader materials can be imported into Shader Mixer for editing. If I understood correctly there is no obstacle in principle to making other shaders readable, but it would require the implementation of bricks to mimic their basic behaviour the way the DAZ Material brick does the Default Shader and that hasn't been done.