More Non-photorealisitic Renders (NPR II)

tkdrobert

WillowRaven said:

I had lost track of this thread when it moved to II ... so don't remember where I left off. In that case, I'll only share a few of the most recent works, most-recent first. And I have the wonderful people here in the Daz forum for all of ya'lls help and support.

 

Impressive.

Oso3D

I had a webcomic a few years ago that featured Cricket, an anthro cat (technically the data form of a machine intelligence but whatever).

Originally I had done it with creature creator stuff in Genesis 2, but happy to revamp it using Catgirl Megapack. Tweaked it a LOT to get the head how I liked it (various morphs + cartoonized).

 

3Diva

jepsonpeteCMT said:

I took my Fuse character that I designed into Unity and rendered him out with the MK Toon shaders. (I tried importing into Daz, but it didn't like his Mixamo skeletal rig, his arms and hands stretched in loops around his head! - shame because I wanted to see how he would look in Iray)

The original Unity render came out nice. I manipulated it in Photoshop and got quite an interesting Steam Punk type look.

Let me know what you think.

 

Those look great - I really like the second/more purplish one. :)

3Diva

Oso3D said:

I had a webcomic a few years ago that featured Cricket, an anthro cat (technically the data form of a machine intelligence but whatever).

Originally I had done it with creature creator stuff in Genesis 2, but happy to revamp it using Catgirl Megapack. Tweaked it a LOT to get the head how I liked it (various morphs + cartoonized).

 

I really like this version of Cricket much better - excellent work! :D

jepsonpeteCMT

Divamakeup said:

jepsonpeteCMT said:

I took my Fuse character that I designed into Unity and rendered him out with the MK Toon shaders. (I tried importing into Daz, but it didn't like his Mixamo skeletal rig, his arms and hands stretched in loops around his head! - shame because I wanted to see how he would look in Iray)

The original Unity render came out nice. I manipulated it in Photoshop and got quite an interesting Steam Punk type look.

Let me know what you think.

 

Those look great - I really like the second/more purplish one. :)

Thanks, the purple one is the original render straight out of unity.

Does anybody know if you are allowed to take Daz character models into Z brush and modify them there, only for the purpose of creating 2D renders? The reason I ask is I was just checking out the forums over at Z brush and realised there's a really cool NPR set of filters now available in the latest version of Z brush. It would be awesome to do one of images of really detailed characters in NPR toon style (Might be good for comic book covers etc.)

Someone made the top row artwork at zbrush central doing a spiderman model in toon NPR:

http://archive.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?216918-Miles-Morales-Spider-Man-Into-The-Spider-Verse-fan-art

Obviously the software sin't cheap, but another option to consider

Richard Haseltine

For the purpose of doing renders you can do whatever you like, in whichever aplication you like. The onyl thing that has some minor restrictions, which don't affect which application you can use, is the Anne Marie Goddard Digital Clone for Victoria 3.

philebus

mmitchell_houston said:

Based on the previous comments, I made a few tweaks to shading and the darkness of the rocks in the background, as well as to some of the ground shadows.

I also made some edits to the shading on his hand and his left leg/britches. They're subtle, but I think the improvements were worth the time.

Any thoughts?

I really need to get on-line more often and spend some time when I do. I've got to say that the work paid off, your efforts with the shading really work well, in particular, having the rocks the same shade as the hatching is just what it needed to give that bit more depth. I can still recall reading about your use of renders as just a guide to adding your own shading (I think in Manga Studio 4 - so that was a while back). Is there any chance you'd share with us the raw render - I'm a sucker for before and after images.

philebus

mmitchell_houston said:

I have my favourite of your work - I'm biased to The Bat, I'll admit, but this is a great pic - the composition really lends that little bit of drama.

philebus

Another little play around with line art into curves - I beefed up the curves with a heavy brush as I wanted the feel of solid ink, which I'm happy with but it wouldn't be any good as a book logo. Reduced down in size, you can't really tell what it is, that will, I think, need a view of it from above and it a pose that maintains the shape people expect from a frog.

mmitchell_houston

philebus said:

Another little play around with line art into curves - I beefed up the curves with a heavy brush as I wanted the feel of solid ink, which I'm happy with but it wouldn't be any good as a book logo. Reduced down in size, you can't really tell what it is, that will, I think, need a view of it from above and it a pose that maintains the shape people expect from a frog.

You nailed it on the analysis. The hsape is just not conveying what it is. I thought it was a lizard at first glance. But, as for the approach? I like it.

mmitchell_houston

philebus said:

I really need to get on-line more often and spend some time when I do. I've got to say that the work paid off, your efforts with the shading really work well, in particular, having the rocks the same shade as the hatching is just what it needed to give that bit more depth. I can still recall reading about your use of renders as just a guide to adding your own shading (I think in Manga Studio 4 - so that was a while back). Is there any chance you'd share with us the raw render - I'm a sucker for before and after images.

Sure thing, I'm happy to oblige. Here are the raw renders (well, I did shrink them; I work in a VERY large size: This render was originally 8,000 px wide (done because the entire book is 800 dpi)). As for Manga Studio 4? Yeah, that was a while back. I'm in version 5 EX now (and they have rebranded the program as Clip Studio Paint – horrible name, if you ask me). And that's where I do all of my post work and clean-up.

Here's my process:

1. BASE: I set everything up and then (usually) use just two lights to illuminate the scene; I adjust the lights to cast very small, tight shadows that define the important aspects of the shape. I then render that scene.
2. SHADOWS: Now I adjust the lighting (either by moving them a little or adjust their brightness or some other aspect) to cast larger shadows that provide more details (especially in regards to the face and body shape) to the scene. While doing this, I try to imagine how these will work as shadows for the first image. I then render this scene.
3. I then open the two images in Manga Studio and place the shadow layer on top.
   1. I then set its opacity to 30% and its blend mode to Multiply.
   2. Then I add details (especially to the hair), fix any broken outlines, and so forth.
   3. And finally, I make a LOT of adjustments to the base and shadow layers to get the look I'm after.

If you ever want the raw renders at full size, let me know via PM and I'll send them to you by email. 

 

 

NOTE: I shrank these down to 266 px wide. The files attached to this post are 2,000 px wide.

And, of course, here is the final image again.

The other rocks were added from another render and all the sketch lines were, of course, added in Clip Studio Paint. And if you look at the bottom of the cliff edge (behind his boot) you'll see that I also edited the shape of the rocks so they cut in a little deeper away from his foot.

tkdrobert

philebus said:

mmitchell_houston said:

I have my favourite of your work - I'm biased to The Bat, I'll admit, but this is a great pic - the composition really lends that little bit of drama.

Thanks.  I'm glad you like it.

philebus

mmitchell_houston said:

philebus said:

I really need to get on-line more often and spend some time when I do. I've got to say that the work paid off, your efforts with the shading really work well, in particular, having the rocks the same shade as the hatching is just what it needed to give that bit more depth. I can still recall reading about your use of renders as just a guide to adding your own shading (I think in Manga Studio 4 - so that was a while back). Is there any chance you'd share with us the raw render - I'm a sucker for before and after images.

Sure thing, I'm happy to oblige. Here are the raw renders (well, I did shrink them; I work in a VERY large size: This render was originally 8,000 px wide (done because the entire book is 800 dpi)). As for Manga Studio 4? Yeah, that was a while back. I'm in version 5 EX now (and they have rebranded the program as Clip Studio Paint – horrible name, if you ask me). And that's where I do all of my post work and clean-up.

Here's my process:

1. BASE: I set everything up and then (usually) use just two lights to illuminate the scene; I adjust the lights to cast very small, tight shadows that define the important aspects of the shape. I then render that scene.
2. SHADOWS: Now I adjust the lighting (either by moving them a little or adjust their brightness or some other aspect) to cast larger shadows that provide more details (especially in regards to the face and body shape) to the scene. While doing this, I try to imagine how these will work as shadows for the first image. I then render this scene.
3. I then open the two images in Manga Studio and place the shadow layer on top.
   1. I then set its opacity to 30% and its blend mode to Multiply.
   2. Then I add details (especially to the hair), fix any broken outlines, and so forth.
   3. And finally, I make a LOT of adjustments to the base and shadow layers to get the look I'm after.

If you ever want the raw renders at full size, let me know via PM and I'll send them to you by email. 

 

 

NOTE: I shrank these down to 266 px wide. The files attached to this post are 2,000 px wide.

And, of course, here is the final image again.

The other rocks were added from another render and all the sketch lines were, of course, added in Clip Studio Paint. And if you look at the bottom of the cliff edge (behind his boot) you'll see that I also edited the shape of the rocks so they cut in a little deeper away from his foot.

Thank you for posting those - it really does illustrate the work you've done. Procedural and rendering solutions are very useful but you can see here both their limits and their uses and how to exploit them when you're willing to do work by hand. I'm really going to have to have a go at Manga Studio again - I do have version 5 (or Clip Studio as it is now) and I believe there are some more colouring facilities.

philebus

I think I might continue playing around with some little critters in this style. It's simple but I'm sure I can find some use for them somewhere. This is Ken Gilliland's lizard.

E.Bru

A smal one!

mmitchell_houston

E.Bru said:

A small one!

And a fun one! Live the texture, and I like the fun you had with the placement of your signature. Also like the frame effect.

mmitchell_houston

philebus said:

mmitchell_houston said:

philebus said:

I really need to get on-line more often and spend some time when I do. I've got to say that the work paid off, your efforts with the shading really work well, in particular, having the rocks the same shade as the hatching is just what it needed to give that bit more depth. I can still recall reading about your use of renders as just a guide to adding your own shading (I think in Manga Studio 4 - so that was a while back). Is there any chance you'd share with us the raw render - I'm a sucker for before and after images.

Sure thing, I'm happy to oblige. Here are the raw renders (well, I did shrink them; I work in a VERY large size: This render was originally 8,000 px wide (done because the entire book is 800 dpi)). As for Manga Studio 4? Yeah, that was a while back. I'm in version 5 EX now (and they have rebranded the program as Clip Studio Paint – horrible name, if you ask me). And that's where I do all of my post work and clean-up.

Here's my process:

1. BASE: I set everything up and then (usually) use just two lights to illuminate the scene; I adjust the lights to cast very small, tight shadows that define the important aspects of the shape. I then render that scene.
2. SHADOWS: Now I adjust the lighting (either by moving them a little or adjust their brightness or some other aspect) to cast larger shadows that provide more details (especially in regards to the face and body shape) to the scene. While doing this, I try to imagine how these will work as shadows for the first image. I then render this scene.
3. I then open the two images in Manga Studio and place the shadow layer on top.
   1. I then set its opacity to 30% and its blend mode to Multiply.
   2. Then I add details (especially to the hair), fix any broken outlines, and so forth.
   3. And finally, I make a LOT of adjustments to the base and shadow layers to get the look I'm after.

If you ever want the raw renders at full size, let me know via PM and I'll send them to you by email. 

 

 

NOTE: I shrank these down to 266 px wide. The files attached to this post are 2,000 px wide.

And, of course, here is the final image again.

The other rocks were added from another render and all the sketch lines were, of course, added in Clip Studio Paint. And if you look at the bottom of the cliff edge (behind his boot) you'll see that I also edited the shape of the rocks so they cut in a little deeper away from his foot.

Thank you for posting those - it really does illustrate the work you've done. Procedural and rendering solutions are very useful but you can see here both their limits and their uses and how to exploit them when you're willing to do work by hand. I'm really going to have to have a go at Manga Studio again - I do have version 5 (or Clip Studio as it is now) and I believe there are some more colouring facilities.

Personally, I would LOVE it if my renders came out exactly the way I wanted them to look. But the reality is, I'm trying to get 3D tools to create artwork that looks like it was created with traditional tools and techniques. In order to achieve anything close to that 2D look, I need to make decisions and put in the work that the software just can't accomplish on its own. In other words, to get what I want there is always going to be hand work.

As for Manga Studio (technically, that is the software I have because I bought it on a DVD – CSP is the download-only version), it is worth investing a few days to figure it out. Is it better than Photoshop or Illustrator? No. But it is DIFFERENT from Phtoshop and Illustrator. MS has tools that were designed for artists who want to ahieve the hand-drawn look. To this end, I have found these to be the best parts of Manga Studio:

1. The pens are better. You can set a pen to taper at the ends without needing a Wacom tablet.
2. The Panel Frames are better. Hard to say exactly why these are better than layer groups, but it probably has to do with the fact that applying a layer mask to a frame folder automatically creates the lines around it (which can be edited with the pen tools).
3. Mesh Warp seems to be better than the one in PS. Again, hard to say why, but it seems to be better.
4. The ability to set a layer's color mode: rgb, grayscale or b&w. You cannot accidentally put red color on a b&w layer. Also, the b&w layer does not accept gray pixels. If you want a crisp b&w look (like I do on most of my line art layers) this is an amazing addition.
5. Back to the pens: Exotic pens work MUCH better than PS. And I do mean MUCH MUCH better. If you create a textured pen (like a chain or Spider-Man webbing), it will atually flow around cruves and edges like you would expect it to. Photoshop does not do this at all.

Things that aren't better?

• Text tools are adequate but limited (no text on curves, nor sideways text).
• You have to get used to swapping between the transform tool and the move layer tool to perform things that in PS just need you to hold down the CTRL key.
• Selecting layers and groups is just a little different from how it's done in PS, which means I sometimes have to stop and think about what I'm doing.
• Layer menu does not support layer colors (I would love to be able to make all the layer icons for page 9 red ad all the ones for panel 2 green, and so on). Very minor, but it would help me with organization.
• The interface is a bit bland.
• Installing textures is a pain in the a**. When you buy a 3rd-party texture or materials set, installing them requires a quick trip to YouTube for instructions.

 

All that said, the results can be VERY good. There is a reason many pro artists use this toolset. It does take some practice but it's worth it.

 

jepsonpeteCMT

A quick experiment using Daz Iray, who would win a Dragon or a T Rex?

 

mmitchell_houston

jepsonpeteCMT said:

A quick experiment using Daz Iray, who would win a Dragon or a T Rex?

 

Nice lighting here. And the ground definitely has a painted look to it. As an illustration, I would suggest adding just a little more light to the T-Rex's head (or slightly changing the background to something lighter) would give that figure a little more definition.

Now, as for who would win... Hmmm. Based on size and a physical fight in a cave (to minimize the dragon's advantage from flying), I would give it to the T-Rex.

However, in the open or with the dragon having fire breath, then I would give it to the dragon.

mmitchell_houston

Hey all, I'm NOT doing this to solicit votes for him, but our buddy tkdrobert has been nominated for Artist of the Month over at R'osity!

I think it's awesome that he's being recognized over there for his hard work and dedication to the craft!

Way to go, tkdrobert!

philebus

mmitchell_houston said:

Hey all, I'm NOT doing this to solicit votes for him, but our buddy tkdrobert has been nominated for Artist of the Month over at R'osity!

I think it's awesome that he's being recognized over there for his hard work and dedication to the craft!

Way to go, tkdrobert!

Well, being a bit of Batman and Gundam fan, I had go cast my vote in support. Great stuff.

vrba79

Very nice! He does great work.

tkdrobert

Thanks guys, you're making me blush.  I'm still amazed that anyone likes my art.

Artini

Congrats, tkdrobert.

 

tkdrobert

Artini said:

Congrats, tkdrobert.

 

Thanks you.

mmitchell_houston

tkdrobert said:

Thanks guys, you're making me blush.  I'm still amazed that anyone likes my art.

Dude. If I didn't know you, I would think you had false modesty. BUT... I know that you really don't know how good you are. Hopefully, you now realize that we really like what you're doing!

tkdrobert

mmitchell_houston said:

tkdrobert said:

Thanks guys, you're making me blush.  I'm still amazed that anyone likes my art.

Dude. If I didn't know you, I would think you had false modesty. BUT... I know that you really don't know how good you are. Hopefully, you now realize that we really like what you're doing!

I admit, I am my own toughest critique.  Also, I believe it’s better to be humble than conceited.  I can say with confidence that my art has improved a great deal since I began using 3D and Photoshop.  However, there is are artist out there that are SO MUCH better than me.  That motivates me to keep trying to improve.  There’s always something new to learn.  If I could quit my job and do this full-time, I would, but that’s not going to happen any time soon.

mmitchell_houston

tkdrobert said:

mmitchell_houston said:

tkdrobert said:

Thanks guys, you're making me blush.  I'm still amazed that anyone likes my art.

Dude. If I didn't know you, I would think you had false modesty. BUT... I know that you really don't know how good you are. Hopefully, you now realize that we really like what you're doing!

I admit, I am my own toughest critique.  Also, I believe it’s better to be humble than conceited.  I can say with confidence that my art has improved a great deal since I began using 3D and Photoshop.  However, there is are artist out there that are SO MUCH better than me.  That motivates me to keep trying to improve.  There’s always something new to learn.  If I could quit my job and do this full-time, I would, but that’s not going to happen any time soon.

I can totally relate. It takes me forever to move on from an image. Every time I look at it (each and every time) the first things I see are the things I could have done differently. At least I think I've moved on a little and don't think of them as "mistakes" any more (unless they are actual errors, of course). But that's because, as you said, there is "always somethig new to learn." 

MrPatrick

Figuring out a quick way to create faster renders (and post edits) by a comic-book look.

Not as good as the Batman pic up there... (envy).   But I think this is decent for a series.

Tried to rely less on Photoshop Poster filter (for coloring), while using charcoal and a couple of other effects.

Yay, Nay or Meh?

 

tkdrobert

MrPatrick said:

Figuring out a quick way to create faster renders (and post edits) by a comic-book look.

Not as good as the Batman pic up there... (envy).   But I think this is decent for a series.

Tried to rely less on Photoshop Poster filter (for coloring), while using charcoal and a couple of other effects.

Yay, Nay or Meh?

 

I think it looks good.