Get Help - because you are worth it?

David Brinnen

Compositional help with this free tool made available here at DAZ 3D.

Complete with docs and tuts.

Edit. Sorry, I think that strap line belongs to some kind of hair care product - don't ask me, I'm not in marketing - or indeed have much need for hair care.

Chohole

Glad to see this in the store David, but a bit concerned that DAZ 3D have tagged on a paid for product from Dreamlight as as a required product. Sent you a PM

David Brinnen

chohole said:

Glad to see this in the store David, but a bit concerned that DAZ 3D have tagged on a paid for product from Dreamlight as as a required product. Sent you a PM

Thanks for the info Pam and for your keen observation. Since the only required product is Bryce, that is an error - I'll ask Horo to take a look at that and see if he can have it amended.

Cheers,

David.

Horo

Yeah, I've seen it right before I posted to http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/17976/P135/

This product is self-contained and what is called a required product is absolutely not required. I've flagged that to DAZ 3D already.

GussNemo

I bagged this one, so maybe it'll help with my compositions. Thanks David/Horo.

Horo

You're more than welcome Jamie. Say thanks to Jeff (Jaderail) and Pam (chohole). Without them, it wouldn't have occurred to me to do such a thing.

GussNemo

I can do that Horo. Thank you Jeff and Pam for you inspiration.

Chohole

:red: aw shucks.

Jaderail

Your more than welcome. Have fun.

Wilmap

Yes, thanks Chohole and Jaderail, they are a great help with scenes.:-)

Chohole

Horo did all the work to convert Jeff's original (which was made for DS).so it would work in Bryce. All I did was ask Horo and David if it could be done, and they ran with it..

Miss B

chohole said:

Glad to see this in the store David, but a bit concerned that DAZ 3D have tagged on a paid for product from Dreamlight as as a required product. Sent you a PM

You know, I saw that first thing this morning when I grabbed this, and couldn't understand why it stated that, especially since it wasn't Walle's Camera Pointer product (the inspiration for Jeff and David/Horo's goodies) that it was pointing to, but something totally unrelated. Had me scratching my head for a couple of minutes, that's for sure.

Jaderail

A little info about what really went on. Pam sent a WIP and I layered one of the GR templates over it to explain the GR concept. She snuck off and showed Horo that one and the rest as they say is History. Horo gets all the Credit. Much better set than my DS GR's.

Miss B

I, for one, am glad he ran with it. :coolsmirk:

GussNemo

I'll second what Miss B said.

I watched the video David made, which as usual is excellent, but it got me wondering how to know which helper to use in which circumstance. I know Jeff/Pam/Horo/David have talked about the golden rule, but since I wasn't an art major in college this is new to me. And I'd guess to many others as well. Aside from the special triangles, which require the correct aspect ratio, how does one determine which helper to use?

Horo

GussNemo said:

Aside from the special triangles, which require the correct aspect ratio, how does one determine which helper to use?

Well, I've neither have a proper artist education that's where David came in with the video. As I understand, you won't take a helper and build a scene around it. Rather, you do your artwork and only at the end check how things fit in. Then, you make fine adjustments to your scene. You take the helper that best fits your scene. Photographers use such rules (generally in their head, not needing crutches) to crop or rotate the final image if they missed the composition at the moment of exposure. Generally speaking, things should follow the lines, cross points are usually where an important piece of the artwork is. Cross points are focus points. KickAir 8P has a couple of good examples in this thread http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/17976/P135/

Jaderail

GussNemo said:

I'll second what Miss B said.

I watched the video David made, which at usual is excellent, but it got me wondering how to know which helper to use in which circumstance. I know Jeff/Pam/Horo/David have talked about the golden rule, but since I wasn't an art major in college this is new to me. And I'd guess to many others as well. Aside from the special triangles, which require the correct aspect ratio, how does one determine which helper to use?

That is more than a good question. And I'll try to be a little help but School was 20+ years ago now. I would suggest starting a basic People type render with the Rule of Thirds (also works for still lifes), it is the most widely used of them all and Gives very good results. It also happens to be the first taught most often in a class. A Fast Google will pull up a few sites with good info on how and why it works, some sites will cover more than just the Rule of Thirds. From there you should have a general idea of how they work and why. To get the Best use of any of them it helps to have your Idea before you ever start a scene. The Image that Starts this thread is a GOOD example of when that Overlay would be used, it would also work for two figures in a leaping gun fight for example Angles of the leaps arms and focal points are easy to see once the idea is formed. The Spiral works very well for things that flow toward the Focal point. I set a forest trail with trees and foliage that follow the edges of the spiral to get my eyes to see the natural shape of the flow and lead my eye to the the Focus, a Fairy in the woods.

I hope you will do a little research and expand yourself and the understanding of not only how to use them but to see all your future art without needing them. (I still need them myself) Many artist just get it and those I envy.

mermaid010

Thanks Horo, David, Jaderail and Chohole. This is something that will be very helpful.

I can't find the download link in my account. I'm I missing something.

Horo

mermaid010 said:

I can't find the download link in my account. I'm I missing something.

I don't know. But right at this time, the store software seems to have some issues. Check later.

David Brinnen

GussNemo said:

I'll second what Miss B said.

I watched the video David made, which at usual is excellent, but it got me wondering how to know which helper to use in which circumstance. I know Jeff/Pam/Horo/David have talked about the golden rule, but since I wasn't an art major in college this is new to me. And I'd guess to many others as well. Aside from the special triangles, which require the correct aspect ratio, how does one determine which helper to use?

Composition is a board topic. And you will find you will encounter conflicting views. But before even considering arranging things in your scene to some geometric ideal, your might want to think about if your scene (at least for a scene which is to look "real") is consistent with what we know about the real world.

What I mean is that there are a lot of potential problems to solve before you even reach for your "helpers". And by solving these first, you may well find that that alone determines which helpers are appropriate for use.

Before composing then some things to think about.

1. Is everything in your scene appropriately sized - or do you have Vicky as tall as the mountains in the background?
2. Have you selected a suitable height for your hypothetical "viewer". Imagine yourself in the scene, where could you stand?
3. Aspect ratio of the scene and FOV alone change the composition of the scene radically. Tall and thin or landscape or square? Wide for extreme perspectives, narrow FOV for telephoto effect with compression back to front. As shown in Horo's video here.

Bryce 7.1 Pro tutorial - FOV as Compositional Tool - by Horo Wernli

Then you can go on to look at your scene critically and see if you can detect where the audiences eye will rest - these focus points could be aligned with the centre of spirals or crossing lines. And look for lines in your scene, either created by colour, shadow or geometry. Then offer up some guides and see if you can wriggle things around until they fit. Try a few and see which scene you like best.

This playlist I put together starts with camera control and then moves through the 5 to 6 part scene composition series (part 5 or 6) being the video supplied with the golden rules.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL790l24c49DR81OY2tlP2Ou0gBRk61neJ

Let us know if that helps.

mermaid010

Thanks Horo, downloading the file now. I had to install the Daz Installer.

Guss - you ask all the right questions. Thanks

David - I love the way you set up your YouTube, are you going to eventually upload all your videos to your YouTube channel.

Horo

mermaid010 said:

Thanks Horo, downloading the file now. I had to install the Daz Installer.

You're welcome. Strange. I don't use the DAZ installer. Just download the file and unzip it.

mermaid010

Horo said:

mermaid010 said:

Thanks Horo, downloading the file now. I had to install the Daz Installer.

You're welcome. Strange. I don't use the DAZ installer. Just download the file and unzip it.

Maybe because you are part of the team ;-)

I couldn't find the download link in my account. Checking my emails I found the link but could not download till I downloaded and installed the Installer. I have it now thats the main thing. Thanks

Chohole

I found it in my product library as well, as I "purchased" it to check out a store error.

mermaid010

chohole said:

I found it in my product library as well, as I "purchased" it to check out a store error.

Next time I will know where to check first. The zip, the exe are listed in my product library too. Thanks Chohole

GussNemo

@Horo/Jeff/David: Thanks all, it sort of clicked when I started reading Horo's post on page 1, and really clicked when I remembered David's video and Horo talking about lines and points formed by perpendicular lines. I some times think I carry around to much molasses between my ears. I do think about scenes I want to compose, and what I want to achieve, but getting it from gray matter to screen is still a learning process. Jeff, I more than likely will research the golden rule, or schedule it in, so I can further understand reasons and theory behind it. I have a general idea that it's done to direct the viewers' eye to a specific point or area, but I'm guessing it's a bit more in depth than that.

@mermaid: I would normally not ask such questions, for fear of being shot down by some clod; which has happened all to often in the past. But people here have shown a willingness to answer questions without putting down the questioner, so I feel comfortable asking questions that help me as well as others.