A Render, within a render, within a render...
Joe827
Posts: 225
Yes, it sounds like the movie "Inception", but this topic is no where near as crappy as that. I am trying to apply a previously rendered jpeg to a "monitor" in a different scene. When constructing the scene, the image on the monitor is crystal clear. However, when I render, it gets a case of the fuzzies. I am looking for any clues as to what might be causing this. Thanks for your help.
-Joe
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Comments
I'm not sure what software you're using.
In Carrara, select the monitor, go into the shader room.
Then select "screen" or the equivalent in that model.
Replace the screen with the new picture.
That should take care of it.
Also, make sure the original picture is of a high enough resolution when you start.
There are many factors that could be involved so for starters, which monitor might this be?
Forgot to mention that I am using Daz Studio.
There are many factors that could be involved so for starters, which monitor might this be?
It is just a "plane" primative that came with Daz Stuido.
If you're using DOF on the camera it might be causing it to become out of focus.
No DOF. In fact, I have framed the "monitor" with other primitives, and they are crystal clear.
If you hide the primitives around the image, and just leave the image floating and render, is it still fuzzy? Wondering if it's a shading thing with the primitives blocking some light.
I just tried using one in D/S ... had to adjust the ambient color on the Surface Tab.
Yep, I already had to turn the ambient up because the image looked dark. However, it doesn't look like an ambient problem in my case. It looks like a resolution problem, but that doesn't make any sense because the image is clear prior to rendering...
-Joe
What is looks like in the viewport and what it looks like in the render are 2 different animals. The viewport doesn't reflect everything that may or may not be applied. For instance, the splotches caused by shading rates and such on uberenvironment won't show up in the viewport, but will in the render.
Can you post a render shot so we can actually see what's going on?
Yes, I realize that the viewport and rendered images can look drastically different. My point is that the resulting render appears as though the image on the monitor is low resolution. If this were the case, it would not appear highres in the viewport. I'll post a snapshot tomorrow. I have to be to work by 6:00 AM tomorrow. =(
-Joe
I'm guessing you want something similar to this..? This was done using multiple renders, and using each previous render as the surface material in the picture for the new render. The result speaks for itself.
Resolution is key..so what it the res of the image you are applying to the monitor. it should be no lower than at least 2000 x 2000 IMHO And yes a low res pic will look crsip in the viewport and render badly.
Also what lights and what are you Advanced Render settings and now many polys make up the plane?
TIP: To get a bttter ambient look place the texture map in to the colour channel of the Ambient Channel, will need to increase the limit though by clicking on the cog wheel and go in to the Parameters setting to increase the threshold.
Per your comment about resolution and looking good in the viewport, but not the render, can you explain why that would be?
My issue persists with or without lights. As far as the plane's poly count, I'll find that later. I hadn't considered the plane's poly count yet. I suppose I can just find something with a high poly count and compare side-by-side. I'll get some samples rendered later today.
Thanks for the feedback.
-Joe
No Idea why to be honest just what I have experienced.
The plane doesn't need to be high poly just 4 polys will do. But If you intend to use Area Lighting then this may need increasing.
This may be the result of mip mapping, in which a high resolution image is reduced to progressively smaller resolutions for use on distant objects. While the image you are applying may be hi-res the image the render engine is applying is a low-res mip map. As counter intuitive as it may sound using a smaller image that you re-sized with a good image program may give better results.
Thanks for the note. I went ahead and tried this at several sizes, but saw no improvement. Eventually, it got small enough that the quality began to visible suffer as one would expect.
Okay, now for some additional info requested from earlier. My advanced Render Settings are as follows:
Ray Trace Depth: 4 ( I assume this wouldnt' affect it)
Pixel Samples X & Y: 4
Shadow Samples: 16
Gain: 1.00
Gamma Correction: OFF
Gamma 1.00
Shading Rate: 0.7
Pixel Filter: Sinc
Pixel Filter Width X & Y: 6
I presume that most of the above settings are the default with the exception of Ray Trace Depth and Shading Rate.
Now, to illustrate what I am seeing, I have attached a couple images. The first is a closeup of one of my figures. I have a single, front facing light iluminating the scene. No shadows. As you can see, resolution iis good. The second attachment is simply a screen cap of my view port with the figure (unrendered) next to a basic plane with a .jpg of the first image applied. As you can see here, the image on the plane does not seem to have lost any quality. However, the third image is a rendering the figure and the plane, and now, the image on the plane looses a lot of sharpness.
-Joe
I seem to be having troubles with the attachments at the moment. They did not appear with my previous post, and when I attempt to update the post, the image name simply disappears from the input field and nothing seems to happen.
bring pixel samples up to 6 and drop shading rate to .2
After browsing for and selecting the image; hit 'preview' and wait abit, the image will not be seen but should be listed as an attachment. If it isn't scroll up some and there should be a red note saying why. If it is listed, then hit 'submit/update/whatever' and hopefully it'll then post.
place your image in the diffuse AND ambient channel, with ambient up to 100%, and set to white. Turn off specularity.
Usually works just fine for me.
the example has the screen of the monitor from the office set from daz AND a created plane primitive. (Yes, the plane has the face of mars...Bobak!) Both have the settings I described above.
Okay, attachments seems to be working as expected again. Images are as follows:
1. Monitor Test 1 is just a closeup image of the figure that will be uses as the diffuse map on my plane. This just illustartes the quality of the original image.
2. Monitor Test 2 is a screen capture of my view port. This shows my unrendered figure side-by-side with the plane with the jpeg from test 1 applied. This just shows that prior to rendering, the jpeg is sharp and clear.
3. Monitor Test 3 is the infinal render. As you can see, the jpeg on the plan now loses some of its clarity.
-Joe
I didn't have the time to look at this in great detail last night, but I did see things move a bit int he right direction.
place your image in the diffuse AND ambient channel, with ambient up to 100%, and set to white. Turn off specularity.
Usually works just fine for me.
the example has the screen of the monitor from the office set from daz AND a created plane primitive. (Yes, the plane has the face of mars...Bobak!) Both have the settings I described above.
I tried this earlier, and I was so-so on the results. I get problems with "hot spots" on the image due to how high I must set the ambient in order to make the darker areas visible. I'll play around with it again
-Joe
I tried this earlier, and I was so-so on the results. I get problems with "hot spots" on the image due to how high I must set the ambient in order to make the darker areas visible. I'll play around with it again
If you've got the ambient set high then try turning the Diffuse Strength down. On screens and effects that are supposed to be glowing with their own light I'll usually have the Ambient Strength at 100% and the Diffuse Strength at 0%, with the image mapped in both and both set to white like sgreco1970 says above. (For example, the floating screens in this pic, although they're partially transparent -- used two ordinary spotlights and a pointlight in her hand.)
Not sure if this will impact it but from an old post on the 3Delight Render engine the recommendation is that Pixel Samples (x&y) be set to a MINIMUM of 2/sqrt(Shading Rate).
So if Shading Rate set to .2 you would get
Pixel Samples = 2 / sqrt(0.2) = 4.47
I'd probably round that up to at least 5.
I tried this earlier, and I was so-so on the results. I get problems with "hot spots" on the image due to how high I must set the ambient in order to make the darker areas visible. I'll play around with it again
If you've got the ambient set high then try turning the Diffuse Strength down. On screens and effects that are supposed to be glowing with their own light I'll usually have the Ambient Strength at 100% and the Diffuse Strength at 0%, with the image mapped in both and both set to white like sgreco1970 says above. (For example, the floating screens in this pic, although they're partially transparent -- used two ordinary spotlights and a pointlight in her hand.)
Clever idea for the floating screens. Results from your link look very pleasing. It might not suit my needs for this particular project, but it will go into my bag of tricks for sure.
Noted. Thanks.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I think I have enough info to proceed on my own now.
-Joe