CAD plugin for Studio
cdpro_2831bbd990
Posts: 1,430
I'd love a full fledged architecture drawing plugin for Daz . We already can render beautiful buildings with realistic textures. A plugin that can draw according to dimensions would be a good addition.
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No it wouldn't. There are CAD builds for Blender that might suit your needs.
Why do you say it wouldn't be a good addition? I'd think it'd be very handy to have a program plugin that adds CAD drawing but still uses all the familiar Daz controls and rendering.
I think one should consider is how would CAD enhance the content that's available? Almost all features added to the program are done to make the content better, like iray or dforce. DAZ Studio doesn't make content, only rigs, poses and renders it, so CAD functionality probably wouldn't fit within the business model that DAZ3D provides. While a 3rd party could make such a plugin, you would have to think would there be a market for people to come in do CAD work alongside buying swimsuits for a 3D figure.
You have a point. But, the Daz business model also relies on a lot of consignment sales. So, they wouldn't really have much of a risk if a PA wanted to try selling such a plugin. As far as content goes, PA's are already selling lots of sets and rooms. There are existing products that are close to this idea, just not to measurement, like Room Creator, Castle Builder...etc. All I'm suggesting is a plugin that lets you create those rooms to a scale dimension - instead of just using preset walls, or trying to use scaling controls to stretch or shrink, kind of like how Measure Metrics handles figures. This would open up possibilities for more content sales as well, light fixtures, kitchen cabinet packs, furniture...etc. that could be all scaled to the standard Daz figure scale. I could draw my room layout to dimensions of my choice, place windows and doors, then add fixtures and materials...all to the correct scale. This would be a very fast way to design and decorate and be able to render to near photo realistic. Daz already sells lots of materials packs that would work with a system like this.
So yes, I can see a market for it in the Daz community. Even the girls wearing those swimsuits might want a nice custom home to live in. :) And maybe, Daz could pick up a bit of the interior design crowd as well.
Again the sheer scope of that belongs in a standalone program not a plugin,or already exists in outside programs.
Right... There are lots of softwares to do that.
Better DAZ concentrate fixing bugs and, hopefully, give a better support for animators.
you don't want it becoming too much like Carrara, Lightwave, C4D, Max, Maya etc after all
or Blender
Actually No, the freeware, loss leader business model of DS
is to provide a free platform for content already created
and sold mostly here.
Daz studio supports nearly all of the industry standard mesh formats for import of static 3D models.
Consider the number of people who will seem utterly unwilling
to use existing features like morph sliders to create a fat girl , but instead post endless requests for a "Bethany" preset for G8.
Now try to imagine the number of people who will actually use CAD mechanical modeling tools, inside Daz studio, to build a proportionally correct office credenza.
Google sketchup would be a better choice.
Yikes. No. The reason a Bethany type base shape is useful (and I want Brad too, thanks), is because DAZ flagship characters come with proper JCMs. This makes those shapes the best for sculpting similar characters, which is good for both people creating those characters and people who want PAs to create them. Characters made by spinning dials are out of vogue right now ("hey, I could do that myself since I have the morphs"), while characters custom sculpted off of Flagship Shape X are not. And there is no simple base shape in the DAZ FBMs that is anything like Bethany.
Perhaps my opening statement that "I would like a full fledged architecture plugin" was a bit out of scope. This is more what I had in mind:
Daz already does many of the things that a CAD type plugin would do. I'm not asking for Autocad inside Daz. Your dismissal of the idea is based on some notion that because other CAD programs exist, it wouldn't be useful in Daz. You might as well say that because a full featured program like Photoshop exists, there's no place for Essentials or other less powerful image editors, or that if I like my car, but wish it had a sunroof, that my only option should be to buy an additional car that does, so I can drive it on those sunny days. My point that you seem to be dismissing out of hand, is that because many Daz users are already familiar with the program, a simplified but scale accurate and measured floorplan / 3D room creator could be a useful extension.
What if someone is not well versed in Blender, but already is a competent Daz user and would like to create such a plan? Instead of learning a brand new set of commands for materials, rendering, placement, etc., they just have an additional set of instructiions which allows them to input wall height and thickness, room layout, and furnishings? Daz is already a powerful modeler. And, it already has a scale measurement tool available for figures in Measure Metrics. Is it really such a stretch to think that the idea could be applied to structures as well?
I thought the idea of this forum topic was to suggest possible addons and products we might like to see for Daz, not to find reasons to shoot the idea down.
Wolfe359 said: Actually No, the freeware, loss leader business model of DS
is to provide a free platform for content already created
and sold mostly here.
The free Daz Studio might be a loss leader. However, that doesn't mean a CAD type addon would have to be. Just like Measure Metrics or any other addon utility, it could be a paid product in the store. There are already products like Room Creator that get close to the idea. And, Daz already allows the creation of primitives. Adding the capability to measure and create those primitives to a consistent inch or mm scale that works with the Daz human scale seems like only a short stretch. Consider this: I take a set of walls from a Room Pack and I input a few measurements into the plugin that tells it to create a room 10' x 20'. Then, I tell the plugin that I want the walls to be 9.5' high and 6" thick. Then, I go to my doors and openings selection and place them where I want them in the room. Except for the actual measurements, Daz is already capable of doing this, and already has tons of content that could be used as the various walls, doors, etc. Now, I go to the plugin's Surfaces tab and specify what materials go on each wall, floor, cabinet, counter....etc. Once again, all this is available in Daz already...even a lot of the fixtures. It just needs a good script to take advantage of it. I know that I personally own hundreds if not thousands of surface materials and shaders that would work well for this sort of thing. And, the really awesome thing is that once I build my room inside the program, I can render near photo quality output of my design. This is a simplified CAD, not intended to provide blueprints, but visualizations. I don't expect architects to start dumping their multi-thousand dollar programs to create working site drawings and elevations. But, it could provide a fast scale rendering of a 3D floorplan including photoreal materials - complete with digital Barbie and Ken.
I do already own a couple of lightweight CAD type design programs. They have their merits. But, what I'm asking for, is one that works inside of Daz, takes advantage of the thousands of dollars worth of content that I already own from Daz, and uses the Daz rendering tools. Perhaps, you don't think that anyone else would want or use such a thing. You might be right. But, I would like it...So, maybe someone else would as well.
If we are just arguing the number of people who are unwilling to use the features included in Daz Studio, we might as well limit the discussion of new products to the next incarnation of Aiko or Victoria. There are many plugin tools for various uses within Daz that require some user interaction and knowledge to make them work. Should we skip those, because some people don't have any interest in anything other than putting a premade character into a premade setting?
The idea was for a possible new product addition...not to distract Daz from debugging its software. I think you have an agenda here...LOL Actually, I agree about better animation support.
The point others are making is Studio IS NOT A MODELER. Studio has some tools/functions to make changes to a mesh but not anywhere near as many as a true modeling program. Developers of the Studio or any plug-in have to consider whether enough people would see the benefit of the additions. Making the floor grid's units and scale user definable and adding snap to and an easier way to change a models point of origin is the only CAD functions I would find a useful addition to Studio.
Fair enough. But, it doesn't need to be a full fledged modeler in order to add the CAD functionality I'm proposing. I'm talking about taking advantage of what already exists in content and an opportunity for more content to be made available. Daz does have some modeling capabilities. It already creates primitives to any scale required. And, content that would be otherwise require additional modeling is already available (door openings, windows, appliances, furniture...etc.) or could be made available as furniture packs. It doesn't have to be what you call a "true modeler" for this idea to work. It can do all of the things I've mentioned. It just needs a plugin to convert the current scaling morphs that are based on percentages to the Daz inch / mm - a scale that already exists, but is not apparent in the dials. A few extra convenience scripts for snap to placements and materials placement, along with things like wall specs, and you have a mini CAD system that takes advantage of Daz resources and uses Studio commands. It does not have to be able to do framing layouts, roof calculations, electrical placement or any of the multitude of additional requirements that would be necessary in a full architectural arsenal.
Consider this simple example: I own the "Modern Farmhouse" or something similar. I like the kitchen but would like to change the layout and increase the wall height and change the materials. I can already do all of this in Daz, right? The issue is that doing this is mostly guesswork on size and placement. I can scale the walls up by a percentage, but not by measurement in English or Metric units. But, just by the fact that these models are already created to Daz Human scale, we know that the measurement already exists and that this measurement is consistent across the board for most every Daz environment and architectural product. So, what I need is a product like Measure Metrics, that can measure this scale and then apply any inputted measurements to the model in question - or to a box primitive to create a new wall, or to another wall model from another item in your library. I don't have to create a model. It is more a matter of adjusting the models and materials that are already available to a user defined size. And as I mentioned before, a script for easily changing materials would be helpful. Once again, this is already within the capabilities of Studio. The script is a front end for easily specifying surfaces without having to go into the usual tab and sub menus. When I want to move the wall on my floor to a different location, the measurements would show me where the wall is according to dimensions, rather than the +- xy slider.
So, you can see that this isn't a major reworking of Studio, but a user interface that allows you to choose dimensions rather than percentages or coordinates, and offers the ability to use Daz as a visualization tool for real, if small, projects. Considering the number of people that do home remodels every year, and the number of those that might also be Daz users, don't you think that it could be useful to them? And, what about the folks that would just like the ability to define the dollhouse for our digital dolls? Might they also have fun with a product like that - putting Victoria in a kitchen or bathroom, or castle of their own design?
Of course, there are people that won't find this useful...those who have no interest in such things, or who are already well versed in more powerful CAD design programs, or who just prefer to use existing content as is. But, there are plenty of products that have a limited audience that still are a viable sales item. This thread is about suggestions. If no PA or Daz in house developer is interested in pursuing it, that's up to them. I'm merely making the suggestion for something that I think would be useful. The very things that you say you might find useful are a large part of what I'm proposing.
You pretty much outlined why such a project wouldn't be undertaken. Understand the business model that is the reason that DAZ Studio is offered for free: so that you buy premade content from DAZ and PAs that is loaded into it. What you're suggesting is for anyone to make content in the program, overriding that model... that's simply not going to happen if the program is going to stay free. That's why you have outside programs like zbrush, modo, hexagon, etc.. because the building of the content takes place outside of the program, and anything within is done to render or manipulate existing content. I don't see something like that, which would shift the business model from being incorporated.
Not at all. You're still buying content. The plugin would allow you to place and scale content accurately along with using purchased shader packs to change surfaces...all things you are buying already. Modifying content is nothing new to Daz. Morph packages exist to create new characters. Shader packs are available to change textures. And, you can already create a wall like primitive within Studio. There are products already available like Room Creator, Castle Builder, Sci Fi Construction set and so on. And, Measure Metrics does already do something like what I'm proposing for the human figures. My suggestion still means that you are buying models to modify in the first place. Manipulating existing content and modifying structures from within Daz are exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not seeking to crash the Daz business model.
Consider this: Daz operates on giving away a set of base models within a modifying program which is Studio. What they sell are 1. additional mesh targets to modify characters, 2. additional skin textures, 3. additional fully created characters based on the original free versions, 4. premade environments with modifiable parts, 5. shader packs to modify any surface, 6. scripts to modify skins, and export new ones. Of course, this isn't a complete list. There are many more products and tools to modify them.
What I have been suggesting is that all these things are already incorporated into Daz. My modifying them to make my own scale rooms doesn't take anything away from Daz or the PAs. Is there some reason that I shouldn't be able to make my Daz kitchen have ten foot walls, or my castle have a 15 foot wide hallway instead of a 50 foot one? I can already kitbash anything I like. Is there any reason that I shouldn't be able to have a better way to scale and place the items? The items are not generally Merchant Resources. So, it's not like I'd be creating content and selling it. I'm still using it for the intended purpose. Like I said, the technology already exists in the program via scaling. It's just a matter of making a few front end scripts that can use dimensions instead of percentages and units.
And as to the sales model: If I don't buy x, y, or z, environment because it isn't really what I need, but it has most of the elements I wanted, knowing that I have a plugin that allows me to change the layout and surfaces to what I really want might cause me to buy it rather than pass. All of these models are already modifiable. Have you noticed that most premade environments and figures advertise this fact? The models are for sale as a group of parts but include a premade Set that mimics the promo pics. So, it's pretty clear that the PAs expect the models to be changed as needed. It's just a pain to do it without some sort of dimensional reference. And also, there is a likelihood that PAs or DO can create plugin friendly model packs for custom room creation. I'd buy any number of fixture, appliance, cabinet, furnishing packs if I knew that it was fairly easy to place them in my custom room. I think other users might do so as well.
I really don't think that being able to customize environments is going to stop or even slow the sales of premade sets. As has been argued before, a lot of people would just rather buy something than build it. No worries...Daz is a useful tool for a variety of levels of users. And besides, all of those premade sets have finely crafted models that I can incorporate into my custom room.
Seriously, I have thousands of dollars worth of Daz content, and I rarely use anything as is. Just being able to easily change a room to my liking isn't going to keep me from buying more. In fact, it might make me start wishing for new furniture to fill it up.
I am not suggesting at all that Daz suddenly try to compete with its own products like Hexagon and Carrara {which are often available for free BTW). I'm not even suggesting that users build custom furniture and fixtures within Studio. What I am suggesting is a plugin to use purchased Daz models and shaders to create custom room layouts according to dimensions instead of the current percentage and unit scaling. This changes nothing except to make it simpler to do what Studio is already capable of doing.
I want to apologize for sounding defensive. Really, I think I must not have gotten my original thought across to everyone. The other day, I was looking at various remodeling software packages and I thought to myself, "Hey, I already have tons of content and an excellent rendering software...There must be some way to take advantage of that to create a scale accurate room. After all, Studio already has all the capability."
When I got to looking at it, I realized that the only thing that is really missing is the ability to input accurate dimensions. That's what got me thinking about this in the first place. I think that by using the term "CAD," it immediately made everyone think of Autocad and other professional level tools. But, the plugin doesn't need to create the models - just make them fit. I suppose what I'm really thinking about for a plugin is a simple dimensional modifier script with texture and floorplan layout options, that allows you to work in inches or millimeters instead of the percentage or unit. If I knew how to script a plugin for it, I would do it myself. But, since I know nothing about scripting, I hoped some enterprising PA might take up the challenge.
not CAD but Carrara is a program that will load most Poser and DAZ content with various modeling and physics, particles etc capabilities yet DAZ chose not to support it with their last two figure generations.
Misty proved it was doable but they chose not to.
The excuse they cannot use all their features unless in DAZ studio for both Carrara users and also for that matter Poser users who too found a workaround suggests DAZ has no desire to do so at all.
They want the buy all your content load and render workflow
Off topic...but, do you think Daz is intending to continue to support Carrara, Bryce, and Hexagon?
is off topic and plenty of threads on it but they do have an active Hexagon beta at least
I dare not speculate too much about the others though my feelings are well known on the topic
In my opinion no PA would consider such a specialized plugin
worth the dev time considering the number of DAZ users who need such acurrate measurements within Daz studio.
Most people buy content that is already scaled to be proportioned for the latest Genesis figures.
The average DS user simply does not care about a loveseat's dimensions in millmeters, only that the entire prop is scaled right for V8 or whomever.
To be fair their entire business model is based on exactly that
so there is certainly nothing ethicly wrong with them focusing on that strategy to the exclusion of all others.
The reality , as I see it, is that Daz realizes that they do not have the resources to directly compete in the marketplace in all of the major areas of 3D/CG ,ie Modeling ,Visual effects, Animation.
Sure they own Carrara & Hexagon ,Bryce
Sure they have made vague Public promises
about "maintaining their stable of products" etc.
However one serious look at the 3D /CG software landscape in 2018,makes it clear that those old Apps are vestigial relics from a bygone era and well past their useful developmental lifespans
compared to the options available for Modeling ,Visual effects, and animation today.
Sorry but IMHO, the Carrara & Hexagon ,Bryce fans need to wake up to the fact that,
had DAZ not bought those old programs they probably would not exist at all today.
Despite what people may want to believe,
The near certain impending Demise of Poser,
( literal or practical ) does not leave Daz as the dominant player in the prefab figures &content market.
Reallusion's Clearly announced 2018-2019 RoadMap makes it very clear that they are competing with Daz Directly in this market segment.
The Character creator 3 App will be Available as a stand alone that does not require the purchase of the Iclone pro pipeline.
it will have NVidia IRay as its internal renderer as well as direct support of substance materials
IMHO The native CC Figures already Look good enough to
lure away poser users who may be fleeing that sinking ship
and looking for an alternative to, animation tools stuck in the 1990's, native figures bereft of vendor support ,crippled genesis imports and ,Flash in the pan, third party "saviour" females that inevitably fail to get broad based vendor support .
The latest update of IClone 7 Supports Genesis 8 with extended Facial motion capture abilities far beyond what is even possible with G8 within Daz studio.
And (unlike Daz studio) IClone can import functional FBX
rigs from other sources and animate with facial mocap.
As an Iclone user you already know all of this of course.
Consider Daz's Postion in the Market right now.
In my opinion the only saving grace of Daz studio is its free price
and its perfect integration of the Genesis models and content .
But for those who are gainfully employed and actually have income to spend on software,Iclone is in the position to be that
Alternative and I personally believe Daz realizes this
I Personally believe Daz should Dump Hex,Bryce Carrara completely and focus resources on the animation tools of Studio.
I use Carrara extensively with iClone of course but the day DAZ dumps Carrara altogether will probably be the day I move on from DAZ content altogether to be honest
I only use what is new now because I can modify it in Carrara especially props
many duf format static scenes and props esp Stonemason and other prefered Premier Artists stuff gets its UV wrapping messed up in 3Dxchange and Carrara is the only thing I can fix it in
if that stops working due to Windows updates and lack of subsequent DAZ support I basically cannot use DAZ content so will be looking at Poser and other content even Reallusion instead
edited to add
I am indeed slowly learning Blender and getting better at Zbrush so there is that
Carrara is much easier for me though
a bit of playing around with all of the above to get my JaguarElla character onto Character Creator for rendering not only in iClone but Unreal Engine 4 too which I am also trying to learn
she will be a render only as I would need an interactive RAWart license to make a game but if I stick to iClone export content and DAZ originals which I have a license for I actually could make a game and it is not as impossible as I once thought.
Unless they've opened up the platform so that anyone can build and load content into the program (as well as export the same content to other apps), they are absolutely not competing with DAZ3D. Even though DAZ Studio doesn't create content within, it does allow you to import props and scenes, and content from other stores including the types of content that the main store doesn't carry. I've heard that there are some PAs do make content also for iclone, but that platform is locked down so it's harder for certain types of content to be used in the program. So to say they're competing with DAZ3D is inaccurate.
Also, if someone wants to measure props and other items in a scene there's also Measure Metrics.
well yes it has FBX import that actually works
Props import, figure export.. and I mean their figures?
Also understand what I'm saying; I'm not talking about just importing props from elsewhere, I'm talking about native content creation. That's where they're not competing because that platform is locked down.
I cannot link directly to their site but as you raised the question here is a snippet:
Reallusion members with a passion for creating custom assets are welcome to publish their content in the Reallusion Marketplace. Once you have registered as a Content Developoer, you are free to submit your offerings and manage your own store. All transactions in the Marketplace are conducted in DA Points; and you will receive a flat 60% profit on every sale without processing fees.
Define "locked down"
Daz has special paid license for use of their native content in games etc correct?
RL has thier own paid licensing scheme for use of Iclone native content in commercial games etc(likely more restrictive) but it is an option.
Where I see them competing with DS & Poser is in the Area
of nice looking ,morphable people for stills, Direct support of substance materials ( IRay coming in Character creator 3 later this year )
Cloth and hair & rigid body prop physics
Direct import of the latest DAZ genesis models for stills.
even now We have native export to Alembic without
a separate plugin to get figures out to Lightwave Maya or MODO& C4D.
I wont mention Character Animation because there is no competition from DS and certainly not poser in this area.
Right now Iclone pro 7 with import/export 3DX pipeline is selling for $250 USD
But yes DS is free.
However not everyone in this market is poor/destitude and unable to buy new software .
The locked down part is obvious in terms of content creation in iclone. Can you export their native figure to create content like outfits and props for them like you would in DS? So far all that has been stated is importing other props being imported. You're paying $250 for the program, but you can't use your own content with their figures if you wanted. That's reserved for inhouse staff or their partners, not regular users. DS is free of course, but anyone can make content for those figures and either offer it for free, keep it for themselves or sell it at other places, hence the lock down.. and hence is doesn't compete with DAZ Studio.
What I said is also mentioned on their page:
iClone Native Content is either designed in-house by Reallusion, or by our professional partners to guarantee the program compatibility and usability.
iClone Native design standard includes exchangeable body parts for character, unwrap UV ready for texture modification, editable skin tone, well aligned pivot and proper initial placement, correct in size, material setting, etc.
So anything after this is a moot point. They're not competing if they're not offering or doing the same thing. And they certainly aren't competing on the content level if one has to import DAZ3D's models.
It is what it is.
video of a crappy Zbrush outfit I made for Character Creator male rendered in iC6