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Thanks for linking to me Zev0 ;) I've updated the review with information on previous version DS compatibility and some extra notes on V4 auto-fit advancements. Hope the review is helping people.
This is pure, unnecessary hyperbole. I believe you can still load V1 in DAZ Studio. You are confusing character compatibility with application compatibility. MallenLane added character compatibility for V4 to Genesis 2, but nothing...nothing AT ALL in DAZ's behavior has now or ever suggested that application compatibility with Genesis would ever be lost.
...
I would be careful about that ... V1 and so on are in Poser format, an established format.
DazStudio formats changed from ds to dsa to dsf to duf and whatever ... there IS older DazStudio content that the new DazStudio simply CAN'T load.
Just an information.
I wonder if DieTrying´s free morphs for Genesis 1 would work on Genesis 2. Has anyone tried? I can´t do that since I don´t have a DS version compatible with the new figure installed.
If DAZ drops support for Genesis 1, I'm gone. Will cancel both my membership and buy product from other websites. I just have too much invested in Genesis 1 to have them say, "Sorry, we will no longer support the thousands you have spent." This new Genesis may be the cat's pajamas but do you really want to alienate people who have spent a small fortune?
Greetings,
I don't believe that's correct; I still load .dsa and .dsf files regularly. I don't know about .ds but I think that's used by some old multi-app supporting content, and I believe it still loads. (In fact, it does.)The changes made it so that you can't _save_ in those formats anymore. But it still loads old content.
The point is to stop worrying that DAZ is going to make it so that the thousands of dollars of Genesis content won't load anymore. Nothing, at all, has given any hint of that, so postulating it is purely unnecessary, and only contributes to the confusion surrounding the new release.
-- Morgan
Hmm, but they don´t need people who have spent a small fortune. They need people who will spend a small fortune in the future... Those who don´t want to spend money anymore are worthless as customers for any business, not just DAZ. So alienating old customers who have already bought a lot and are not planing to buy more is not something they might be worried about. They would not be getting any money out of them either way.
They need new customers who will buy the new stuff, and also old customers who will buy the same stuff for the new figure that they already have for the old figure (like morphs). That´s likely one of the reasons why Genesis 2 is not compatible with older morphs etc. And of course best customers will be those who will buy each item twice - one version for Genesis 1 and one version for Genesis 2, ideally in a bundle, but still more expensive than standalone.
If we want to be optimistic (no idea how justified that is though), we can hope that by the time this would happen, DAZ would have already released Genesis 2 Female, Genesis 2 Male, possibly even Genesis 2 Child (fingers crossed) and decides to release Genesis 2 Unisex, which would basicaly have the same capabilities as the current Genesis 1, only with the better bending and expression capabilities of other Genesis 2 figures.
Or maybe they would call it Genesis 3 - the newest and best figure ever that once again reduces the need for separate figures to zero and enables (once again) to morph your figure into anything, this time achieving even better gender-realism than Genesis 2 Female and Male, better bending, better expressions... You get the picture. :)
I would be lying to you (and myself) if I told that I won't use Genesis 2 (even though I spent $200 yesterday on the new stuff and wasn't impressed at all). I will, of course. My primary base now is the original Genesis, but there's still a way to move forward with minimal losses. I sure don't want to get stuck with a decade old stuff like orthodox Poser users have.
The way to do this is:
1) buy all the morphs (Thorne, Zev0, DAZ) that will come out and make your own characters - that's what I did with Genesis with very good results (bough just a couple of characters for Gen5);
2) use converters: GenX, PoseMaster, Sickleyields SRMS, all DAZ utilities you were too lazy to check before;
3) use all those hundred skins you've got for Gen4 - even now the supply in nearly inexhaustible, especially on other stores. They're cheap, they're good and there's variety no single Genesis generation could ever match (and somebody will write a single click script to convert them any day now);
4) don't buy any characters, clothing or poses if they're not truly original and new in most general sense (means don't buy "basic underwear" for each separate shape in your collection - doing this is killing kittens);
5) buy semiuniversal makeup/tattoo/dirt layers/shaders, movement/bending/shape fixes if you need them;
6) don't buy shoes until Genesis 5/Victoria 9 comes out - this will probably be the first "genesis shod" edition (OK, this one's tongue-in-a-cheek, but I'd bet a small amount it's a realistic prognosis);
7) hack, and hack alot. Once you discover you're dealing with text files and things that could be exported to Hexagon and elsewhere easily, you know you don't have to accept all DAZ punches and get knocked down. Hacks will make your renders more interesting and your work more fulfilling. After all most things we love in DS universe are cleverly and professionally done hacks;
8) pray that Dimension3D, DraagonStorm and others already mentioned stay with us regardless.
And all will be fine, and you'll still be able to feed your kids.
And who says I wouldn't continue to buy if they keep it compatible? I buy product every month and will continue to do so as long as they support Genesis 1. And who says I wouldn't recommend to other friends who do rendering not to buy from DAZ? People like me buy and continue to buy. It's called customer loyality in case you don't get it. But even customer loyalty has a limit. The numbers add up. Your response sounds like "Awww, too bad, we don't care." so it is a good thing you are not representing DAZ on this.
Which, of course would be impossible if they drop all support for Genesis 1. I never said I would not buy a version for Genesis 2. I said I would not buy anything if they drop Genesis 1.
The changes made it so that you can't _save_ in those formats anymore. But it still loads old content.
The point is to stop worrying that DAZ is going to make it so that the thousands of dollars of Genesis content won't load anymore. Nothing, at all, has given any hint of that, so postulating it is purely unnecessary, and only contributes to the confusion surrounding the new release.
-- Morgan
You have not been with the evolution of DS from it's alpha release through it's current release candidate. Over the years, DAZ has had several different types of included content. Changes in the sdk can and has caused problems with previous included content. When DS went from the Egyptian to the Fairy Forest content during late beta testing, the read me clearly stated that due to changes in the sdk, the older content would no work as expected.
While the PA's keep saying Genesis 1 will continue, I have yet to read that directly from DAZ Corporate. If I missed it somewhere, please show me where it is. And even if they do state that today, there is no saying that a year down the line, they won't turn around and say that for technical reasons we can no longer include Genesis 1 in the content and future versions of DS no longer support it. due to sdk changes.
Hmm, but they don´t need people who have spent a small fortune. They need people who will spend a small fortune in the future... Those who don´t want to spend money anymore are worthless as customers for any business, not just DAZ. So alienating old customers who have already bought a lot and are not planing to buy more is not something they might be worried about. They would not be getting any money out of them either way.
But there is bad publicity that such move brings them. Microsoft recently relented due to bad publicity; DAZ3D is much smaller, sure, but it doesn't mean it or any company is immune to it.
The changes made it so that you can't _save_ in those formats anymore. But it still loads old content.
The point is to stop worrying that DAZ is going to make it so that the thousands of dollars of Genesis content won't load anymore. Nothing, at all, has given any hint of that, so postulating it is purely unnecessary, and only contributes to the confusion surrounding the new release.
-- Morgan
You can not compare V1-4 to Genesis. They are 2 separate technologies and function differently. And your old .dsa/.dsf files still load because I am assuming you install the updated Genesis Essentials with each Studio upgrade.
Guess what's in those essentials... yes... more than likely an updated Genesis. How many times have you seen "Help! My Genesis exploded!" and then see the first question when troubleshooting is: "Did you download and install the NEW GENESIS ESSENTIALS?"
There have even been versions of Studio released where DAZ implicitly stated that the new Essentials MUST be installed or Genesis would not work.
That's what I'm talking about. If and when an upgrade requires a modification to Genesis in those essentials and DAZ doesn't do it... that's the end for G1 unless you choose not to upgrade Studio. DAZ believes the GEN2 superior or they wouldn't be "quietly" going down this road. The Gen1 clock is ticking.
Go ahead and test this for yourself. Take an old Essentials file from early 2012 or 2011 and install it. How do your old .dsa/.dsf or even .duf files load NOW? Hmmm? I may be wrong, but it certainly isn't hyperbole. I'm basing this on my experience using DS4 from the day it first went to beta.
I would also like to hear a clear statement from a DAZ representative (not admin or PA) whether they will still support Genesis 1, or if it will be dropped at the latest when M6 appears in store (as I guess that till then they will have to support Genesis 1 as the official "male" Genesis companion for Genesis 2 Female. PA´s claim that they see Genesis 1 not as an old, obsolete figure, but just as a *different* figure, as a friend or sibling to Genesis 2, and that there is room for both to exist next to each other at the same time. But does DAZ company see it the same way?
Yes, PA´s may support Genesis 1, but what about DAZ? How many updates received Michael 4 and Victoria 4.2 from DAZ company after Genesis was released? They may be both still in store and PA´s are making (lots of) stuff for them, but that´s not the same as if DAZ itself made regular updates and betterments for them.
I'm with you on most points, just a little more grumpy and cynical.
V6 - not even in my wishlist.
When I can get them at 58% off or more, which is what they were for PC before "the great DAZ awakening," I will buy
- the head and body morphs
- V4 for G2F
When it comes out, I will update Gen X as he said the update will be for male & female.
That's all the money DAZ is getting out of me for Genesis 2. They can go to Hades as far as G2M. I'll stick to G1 for males rather than spend one more dime on G2 besides whats listed above. What I can't do with Gen X, won't be done in G2M.
If DAZ wanted to go down this road, G2F & G2M should have been released together. The world could have waited.
A note to PAs: I'm done buying white chicks and Asians. I'm also done buying the same clothing that has been out since Generation 1.
Animals, plants, buildings, scenery, and utilities are where I am putting my money.
How many other products in the world get updates? I want an update for my car and television too. All we can expect out of DAZ is that Generations 1 to 5 continue to fully function in their latest version of Studio. All we can go on is past history. I don't see DAZ coming out and making promises, but actions speak louder than word.
Chances are, they will not drop Genesis 1 right away. There is still no Genesis 2 Male yet (no idea for how long) and till he appears, DAZ will have to support Genesis 1 as "the male figure". But I am actually curious how many female characters for Genesis 1 (if any) we will see in DAZ store from now on.
And sometime in the future, when more people have adopted Genesis 2 Female and Genesis 2 Male, also have some clothes, morphs, poses etc. for them, DAZ will suddenly come out and say that due to new changes in DAZ studio programming it is absolutely necessary to stop supporting the old, useless, obsolete Genesis 1, that they did their best to avoid that for customer´s sake, but that there is no way around it, that progress cannot be stopped and that surely no customers would want DAZ Studio development and betterment to be stopped just because of Genesis 1. And many customers will just nod and say "true, true, if there is absolutely no other possible way, then just go ahead, we want a better, more advanced DAZ studio, and if Genesis 1 is in the way then away with it". Other customers will be angry, but that happens almost always when new DAZ studio software and/or figure comes around. And all of those angry customers will have Genesis 2 as well (since it comes free with DS), so in the end they will cope with the inevitable and say "never mind, at least we have Genesis 2 and can use old Genesis 1 clothing on it via autofit". And where will be "bad publicity" then?
Truth to say, I don't recall many Genesis female characters before. Vast majority of "Genesis" female characters were V4 characters with complimentary Genesis morph. And I liked that approach.
Truth to say, I don't recall many Genesis female characters before. Vast majority of "Genesis" female characters were V4 characters with complimentary Genesis morph. And I liked that approach.
Now that would have to be V4 characters with adjustments for both Genesis and Genesis 2 Female. And everyone who would want to use them on Genesis 2 would have to buy Mallen Lane´s item for converting V4 to Genesis 2. Or PA´s would have to supply such characters with UV for both V4 and V5.
But all they will have would be bare-boned G2F, without an inch of functionality of their own Genesis, so they will be still angry on that and/or on the need of buying all morphs/textures again. Not mentioning that there would be no prior precedent of DAZ3D ever saying that some of its most recent generation figures must be forcibly discontinued because they 'harms the progress'. Doing so will open a huge can of worms because this would mean that none of future figures are safe from it, it would mean that the company takes away a choice what figure to use in DS - not just abandoning support or discontinuing the product but forcibly taking away a choice to use a product that people paid money for (and the almost-recent product too, a product that still has a lot of usability and up to date).
In this hypothetical scenario it will be easy even for G2F supporters to see that the same thing could be done to their figure later as well.
Older figures (Mil1 and Mil2) were retired because they are mostly obsolete and if anything it doesn't make any sense because latest-to-newest figures are the most comparable with newest technology and, from what I see, G2F in a biggest part is a patch on Genesis, not a truly new figure.
Nah, this means double effort on texturing, no texture artist will do that (except Surreality might do this once or twice because she is really, really through with her characters but I really doubt even this). I believe most of texture artist will stick either with V4 (and some Genesis support) or V5 (and Genesis + G2F support), depending on their choice of Poser or DS as a main application. There is no point, from largeness of customer base perspective, to use only G2F or V6 UVs unless DAZ3D somehow enforces that no V5 or earlier products could be sold in their shop. But it just means that Renderosity will still sell V4 textures.
Chances are, they will not drop Genesis 1 right away. There is still no Genesis 2 Male yet (no idea for how long) and till he appears, DAZ will have to support Genesis 1 as "the male figure". But I am actually curious how many female characters for Genesis 1 (if any) we will see in DAZ store from now on.
And sometime in the future, when more people have adopted Genesis 2 Female and Genesis 2 Male, also have some clothes, morphs, poses etc. for them, DAZ will suddenly come out and say that due to new changes in DAZ studio programming it is absolutely necessary to stop supporting the old, useless, obsolete Genesis 1, that they did their best to avoid that for customer´s sake, but that there is no way around it, that progress cannot be stopped and that surely no customers would want DAZ Studio development and betterment to be stopped just because of Genesis 1. And many customers will just nod and say "true, true, if there is absolutely no other possible way, then just go ahead, we want a better, more advanced DAZ studio, and if Genesis 1 is in the way then away with it". Other customers will be angry, but that happens almost always when new DAZ studio software and/or figure comes around. And all of those angry customers will have Genesis 2 as well (since it comes free with DS), so in the end they will cope with the inevitable and say "never mind, at least we have Genesis 2 and can use old Genesis 1 clothing on it via autofit". And where will be "bad publicity" then?
Good to see I'm not suffering from the "Cassandra Syndrome" and somebody else here gets it.
Excuse me, what do you mean by "going from the Egyptian to the Fairy Forest"? I cannot understand that, sorry. A few words of description would be appreciated. When it comes to that new model, frankly, I'm afraid - just judging from what can I see at the moment in the shop - this new V6 is going to be developed mainly for pin-up purposes. I'm old-fashioned and that's definitely not a way to get my interest aroused around her. Nearly all of you are worried about the genitalia - I think a more worrying problem is that of compatibility. My hope is more and more content - especially clothes - will get the basic "make bigger/smaller" dial also known as scaling. It's what is, in my humble opinion, the most helpful parameter for conforming to various figures. I also hope Genesis - the real one, a "hero with a thousand faces" to quote Campbell - is going to receive more attention. My first suggestions in that matter are:
- partial morphs to get the figure's lower parts into a mermaid tail,
- more diversified children (or at least a new Kids 5 installment),
- new animals to be created on Genesis, especially primates (I despise the ones that are available now apart from Gorilla for Genesis, sorry).
Unfortunately for DAZ, V6 doesn't offer any of my dreams at the moment, so I'll save my tight budget for other things. Just not into the sexy stuff, I'm afraid.
I'm really hoping we don't have to wait 6 months for a gen 6 male to come out.
Extrapolating speculatively to conclude that DAZ "will" drop Genesis is going way beyond the evidence - please let that aspect of the discussion lie.
Watch clothing as well. It's the 2nd day and already boatloads of G2 Female Underwear is released.
It's true that all this is just speculation. But it's based on the past. And the New Releases today speak volumes about the future.
Will do Richard. Sorry for bringing it up even though I disagree that it lacks evidence. I will keep my love for Genesis 1 to myself.
We can't discuss purely hypothetical situations that is clearly marked as a purely hypothetical situation?
But let's face it: who needs dozens of pants in their wardrobe? Isn't it showing what the first purpose of V6 is...? The similar thing struck me with A5 (see Piranha "Dress" that looks like anything BUT a dress).
We can't discuss purely hypothetical situations that is clearly marked as a purely hypothetical situation?
He said "let it lie" not "let it die"— This leaves the issue open but tabled. Doesn't want rampant rumors starting, and I don't blame him. They will do as they will do. If you want to send DAZ feedback, this is not the best venue.
Excuse me, what do you mean by "going from the Egyptian to the Fairy Forest"? I cannot understand that, sorry. A few words of description would be appreciated. When it comes to that new model, frankly, I'm afraid - just judging from what can I see at the moment in the shop - this new V6 is going to be developed mainly for pin-up purposes. I'm old-fashioned and that's definitely not a way to get my interest aroused around her. Nearly all of you are worried about the genitalia - I think a more worrying problem is that of compatibility. My hope is more and more content - especially clothes - will get the basic "make bigger/smaller" dial also known as scaling. It's what is, in my humble opinion, the most helpful parameter for conforming to various figures. I also hope Genesis - the real one, a "hero with a thousand faces" to quote Campbell - is going to receive more attention. My first suggestions in that matter are:
- partial morphs to get the figure's lower parts into a mermaid tail,
- more diversified children (or at least a new Kids 5 installment),
- new animals to be created on Genesis, especially primates (I despise the ones that are available now apart from Gorilla for Genesis, sorry).
Unfortunately for DAZ, V6 doesn't offer any of my dreams at the moment, so I'll save my tight budget for other things. Just not into the sexy stuff, I'm afraid.
Genesis as the "Hero With A Thousand Faces"...that's perfect! Don't worry, a bunch of new Genesis products are in the works or awaiting release--this based on bits of information I've picked up from various public places, including a Genesis mermaid from what I hear (more information on that is publicly available elsewhere, but I won't say any more about it because the PA hasn't posted about it here as far as I can tell). I'm hoping for some Genesis kids too, and in fact I'm half-tempted to try to make some better child shapes myself, even though I don't have any experience modeling and hardly know where to begin... (I do have the tools for it, and access to some good tutorials...). New Genesis primates (and new Genesis-like animal figures...I want a morphing carnivore) would be awesome too.
Regarding Victoria 6, demand for realistic female figures and feminine clothing is a very large segment of the 3D market, so it makes sense that DAZ would want to put out a new and superior female figure in order to try to capture some of that demand. Pinups aren't really my thing either...I primarily look for sensible fantasy clothing (think Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones, not Conan or Xena). I imagine V6's wardrobe options will probably mirror the options of earlier female figures: lots of "sexy" clothing in various genres, but also a good assortment of more sensible options in various genres (sometimes it may seem like there isn't much regular clothing for Vicky, but if you browse the store, there's actually quite a lot). Plus, wilmap, who has made a ton of excellent free regular clothing for Genesis, has already started making Genesis 2 outfits. That's encouraging too.
The Egyptian stuff and Fairy Forest stuff was the content included in earlier versions of DAZ Studio--way before my time. The Fairy Forest stuff was updated as part of the 3D Starter Pack, which (although dated) works perfectly well in DS4.