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Give it time, eventually one or more PA's designing things for Genesis 2 will get fed up with Daz for some reason or another and take their stuff over to the other store.
Actually M4 did have a female option it came with M4 Enhanced and the female Character it created was known as Mina. I don't think it caught on though because I don't recall ever seeing anyone use it in a render or if they did they didn't promote the fact they used it. Here's a link to the product page for it. http://www.daz3d.com/m4-enhanced-mina-for-m4
And of course V4 had a male morph. So if you put a male V4 and a female M4 in the same scene, how weird would you be getting? :P
I had someone ask me the other day (related to Genesis,) "I get it, so all of that is so people can create hermaphrodites right?
(Yep, hermaphrodite midget trolls to be specific...)
LOL. Would be nice if people at least used the proper terms. But alas that won't ever happen.
Not weird at all ^_^"
(did just that once although Vittorio was better V4 male than V4 male morph)
Ditto.
Well... Let me say this --with all the improvements in the models --I really wish they would take a serious look at how they do clothing. The autofit is great for tights and such, but you spend so much time tweaking dials and morphing if it's not a pair of pants that it's maddening sometimes.
I was hoping that they would use the Genesis 2 platform to make some advancements like adding more accurate methods of scaling models. It would be nice to be able to start by saying you want the model to be 5' 6" or 167.64 cm. What bothers me most is that the Young Teens series were almost the same size as the Victoria 5/Stephanie 5 models. If you stand them side by side, they don't look right together. They're getting better at it, but hopefully they will establish a very common scale between the Gen6 figures so that you can use them together without all the additional sizing/resizing.
I understand the change. Truth be told, it doesn't really bother me. Men and Women are Different, so to me it makes more sense to have a base male and a base female figure. I bought V6 because she was on sale and I was able to get the M5 pro bundle for a lot less. I will probably buy the M6 bundle when it comes out too. I don't mind the expense if it gives you improvements. I bought Dream of the Blue Turtles on 78, Cassette Tape, CD and Mp3... (Yea Sting!) And I bought every version of windows since Windows 3.0 --it's just part of being in the computing environment. I mean you don't have the same set of tires on your car that you had when you bought it, right? You look at tires as an expense of owning a car. This is the expense of owning a 3D program. You can either keep up with it, or ride until your tires turn bald and pop... --well in this case, it just means that you stay in Gen 1 or V4/M4 land... however you please.
I'm guessing that they probably hit a wall when it came towards doing something and had to take a step back and attack the situation from a different angle. I would rather them hit the wall, than for me to reach that plateau and realize you can go no higher. If it yields a more desirable result, then is it really a bad thing?
This is one of my issues also, if they were going to come out with a new base mesh like this, it could have been more, um... everything.
Who developed the G2V Mesh? Same modler who made G1V? The answer may explain a lot of interesting developments at Daz
Yes the same person made both.
Oh ho! I see what what you're doing... ; )
...OK so G2f is more optimised for female characters, fine. Why can't that be done through the actual character expansions like V6?
Good example: Vicky 4 (which was gender specific) had issues with the breast/chest mesh collapsing if dialed down below a certain point which also affected clothing fits. This made it impossible to use her as a base for teen/pre teen without having to hack (script) the morphs. Even the one teen character available, Ashley was still pretty much V4 with a younger face teenage themed clothing, and a set of cute poses.
As Daz never released a teen/preteen figure for Gen4 we were stuck.
Then Thorneworks came out with several Fae characters as well as their Tommi teen. With these character morphs, one could give ol' buxom supermodel Vicky a more petite and small breasted physique. A couple like Perennial and Darla could almost have their breasts dialed down flat without distortion. For a long time I relied on these to base my Leela and Tracey teen characters on.
When Steph4 was released it changed the equation again as she had a set of different physique shapes. After that came the Natural Petite Morphs expansion which allowed one to dial down to a fully flat chest with no breakdown of the breast/chest mesh.
That to me said it was possible to make these custom adjustments without having to add extra polys to the base figure. On the other hand, if V4 was "Gender Specific" (which she was), why then wasn't the breast chest region better designed to support a full range from "Casaba" to "Teacup" to flat as supposedly G2F is? One thought is the "V4 Male" morph, a stopgap as Mike4 wasn't due out for a another year or so. In a sense this made V4 kind of a "proto Genesis" as all female characters, from Aiko to She Freak (as well as an androgynous male) were nothing more than morphs all based on base Vicky "unimesh". A bold move, as they could be mixed together, and swap clothing between each other (using wither the Morph Follower - a "proto-Autofit" - or the additional "Unimesh Fit" expansions).
So we have already been down this road once. and apparently with G2F have returned to it again. The only difference is G2F employs weight mapping which V4.2 didn't. Hence the comment I read which claimed this "new" Genesis as being nothing more than Vicky 4.4 has some merit to it after all.
Yes, I think most people have come to that conclusion for the most part, which simply means that a Genesis unimesh type of character didn't make the previous concept totally ineffective. Nor does it mean that the previous concept having merit means the Genesis concept wasn't revolutionary.
It comes down to Hegel's dialectic; Thesis, anti-thesis (ie. antithesis,) new thesis combining the strength of the first two in a triangular upward motion.
Now THAT actually makes some sense... However...
It's not just about development time. Say we add more polys to certain areas of the mesh for a female form, then more for certain areas for male, then more for certain areas for each of the creature morphs... soon we're up to 20x + the number of polygons for *any* of this new character we add and try loading multiples of that into a scene.
The other thing is... it's not just about the number of polygons, it's about the flow of said polygons, unless we drastically increase the number of polygons *again* to allow for all of the various flows without distortion/pinching, etc...
There is a whole art form in 'retopologizing' a mesh, after it looks perfect in order to optimize said mesh for the form. Any character a large studio house created for using in a movie will have it's mesh specifically retopo'd for it's individual purpose... the same thing applies here but in a more flexible, less specific form.
Taken to it's extreme, we could say.. why not just import a zBrush mesh as it will have ultimate flexibility without distortion.
@RCDeschene I hear ya! Nothing much more I can say honestly. You have valid points.
And as I've said a few times, when the news first leaked I wasn't thrilled either. I guess for me the reason I was able to get over it had to do with the fact I wasn't actually waiting on any more figures, and I think this generation was done for me anyway LOL. (edit: which generation are we in now?, er confused there)
I've passed on the last few figure releases some David guy that wasn't very manly at all. And some Hero dude. I have enough heros already. Not sure what that was about. *tease*
I still want a true Asian styled androgynous Chibi though. my morphing skills aren't up to snuff. If someone makes one I'd prefer it for genesis 1 though. I could get a decent androgynous body easy enough, but sculpting the head and eyes properly would kill me. Morphing eyes is a major pain.
*checks to see if redirection worked*
The issue is that as much as I want to make use of the new figure, there are just too many obstacles in my path to achieving that goal. A true 'Genesis' update with a unisex figure and the morphs that the original had would have been instantly welcomed into my runtime. At the very least they could have given us some better options for changing character height rather than ugly scaling.
As of now there's no Michael 6, but I assure you that when he arrives we're going to see considerably fewer items for the older generation.
@ HeraldOfFire There is another thread where people are reviewing the new morphs for GN2 and some find them better to the ones that came for the original genesis. There is more detail. But I wasn't even talking about morph packs, the base figure is better than the last base figure. And that is good.
As I've said many times, I could care less about the whole unisex battle. It has been decided, and not by me. I do care about a better female figure more than I do about her wearing mens clothing, or her natively morphing into a man. I can morph her into a man already if I needed.
However I must call out that I did not conveniently forget about correction morphs for V4 or Genesis. I have many. So I have plenty of experience in the area....Granted all mine were dedicated to fixing issues for V5/Genesis Female or V4. I didn't have any unisex fixes.
I do have Zev's stuff, and I can frankly say I never tried them on men. I do think from his promotional artwork you could see he was showing off the benefits on women more than men...means nothing probably. Or something maybe.
I will say that the correction morphs I have don't work as well as I would like, especially the crotch, so I find Genesis 2 female a better solution for myself. Based on my experience that is not trying to pretend things don't exist. There is value to most of the correction morphs I have in some way, but because I was able to do a few test poses with the stock Genesis2 female and see I didn't need to dial in morphs to fix areas I found that to be a time saver. (or at least I don't think I'll be dialing in fixes as regularly) And I grinned a bit.
I can still use Zevs bend morphs If I really want to. PA's correction morphs have some challenges in their own regard, for examples bend fix really just doesn't work on a few of my characters. (other correction morphs also have issues too, so it's not exclusive to this product) It's probably because of how the characters are morphed. But when I dialed one of my characters into Genesis2 and bend them over they look fine. So for me I've got a better bending figure than before including Genesis+ bend fixes from a few venders.
This conversation reminds me of when I was first using genesis and poser users would message me on dA for no reason other than to tell me they could do everything I could with Genesis with V4 and poser, and correction morphs of course. Meanwhile we have had threads in the forum not too long ago that daz should correct the native figure so fewer correction morphs were needed.
I'm glad they opted to improve the base product and not just leave it up to buying correction morphs.
(and of course, being a 3d figure, she's still not perfect.)
I can only assume you have me on ignore mode then.
I can only assume you have me on ignore mode then.
And MallenLane.
The reason they couldn't do both genders in one mesh as they did with Genesis was they wanted to optimize the mesh [number of polys, edge flow, etcetera] and rigging for the different genders, and have more realistic human bases to build from. You can't really do that for both males and females at the same time.
For everyone who was wondering, Here they are side by side. From right to left, they are Victoria 4 for Genesis, Victoria 5, and Victoria 6. I used a base toon shader and the same outfit for everyone so you can see the geometry side by side. I apologize for v6 having on a different swimsuit, but the one I had for the other two had some fit issues, so I went with her bikini so you can see her form properly
Thanks for that, even with a toon shader I can see the details in V6...and toon shaders are known for washing stuff like that out.
But not good enough!, The original post in this thread is still valid. Every generations base figure is better than the previous one, so the fact that this one is better is, quite frankly, irrelevant!
Genesis 2, or better, G6, is not an upgrade of the Genesis figure, it is an updrade of the V4 figure, since there was not truly a V5. No, there wasn't. The existing V5 was a Genesis Morph package, and a darn good one, but it was not a Victoria base model. It was a Genesis base model. The so-called Genesis 2 is a Victoria base model and NOT a Genesis base model. If it were a Genesis base model, it would have both male and female original morphs. It does not. It has only the female.
The fact is that they called it Genesis 2 so they could promote it off the success of Genesis. The V6 package is just a more Victoria-like morph set that should have been a part of the initial release. In calling these items Genesis 2 and Victoria 6, they are tricking you into excepting a shoddy "quick-release" V6 as a "magnificent upgrade" of Genesis. Then the 'finished' V6 comes along as it should have originally been done, and everyone stands in line, exclaiming "ooooo, aaaah, wow, I got get me one of those!"
The advertising department, once again, streams to the top of their profession because they pulled the wool over so many eyes so that they could go back to selling individual items for every different model.
I bet you still think your paying $3.59 at the pump for gas and not $3.60, which is effectively what $3.5999 is.
Congratulations and hats off to the Advertising Department for yet another financial coup.
Did you think that Hiro 5 outfit only worked for Hiro 5? They added Hiro 5 on the list of compatible figures next to Genesis to fool you, and it worked. That outfit works on Hiro 5, Stephanie 5, Michael 5 and on the Undead Fiend! it works on EVERY Genesis morph set.
Will we able to do the same thing on Genesis 2?
No!!!
Why?
Because Genesis 2 is not a Genesis base model!
Some great points in this thread. i am a big supporter of genesis 1 and it's ability to use V4 morphs and other figures clothing. I made a significant investment with genesis and DS 4.0/5 in thinking it was the future of DS and DAZ, now I am having to increase that investment by much more and lose much of the functionality I already have to use the new figure,........ that is unacceptable IMO.
I know I can stick with genesis 1 for now as mentioned in this thread, but in time, probably shorter than I would like, that support will be gone with a new version of DS, not to mention less and less items in any store for genesis 1.
I have read many of the posts from MallenLane and applaud them for creating more functionality with genesis 2 and for providing some support for V4 with the new figure, BUT it should have been DAZ doing that!!
To be honest, I really don't have much trust or faith in DAZ at the moment. Genesis is/was grand new technology and a pleasure to work with. I felt like genesis 1 was just starting to gain traction and now they want me to buy into a new version, Where are the reassurances that in the same short amount of time I will not be asked to support genesis 4 or 5. I am all for investing in advancement and new technology, but so far, much of the functionality in genesis 2 seems like a step or 5 backwards.
I understand business and work in retail myself, but I am really feeling foolish for supporting this company at the moment.. I guess i will stick with what I have and see where this goes and maybe hit same good sales in the future to try and justify all this.
It seams to me now that Daz has burnt their candle at both ends. With Genesis they upset the Poser users and with Genesis 2 they upset the Daz Studio users. Well not all of them of course. Anyhoot it will be interesting to see where Daz goes from here. As for myself I bought the Gn2F/V6 Package but will refrain from purchasing any further Gen2 content until I know what is the future of Genesis. I saw Xena's new outfit Wicked Cutout just released into the store and thought would also look hot on my Gn boys (hey boys want to look sexy too) but alas it's for Gn2F so will have to pass on it. Sigh!
I would agree here for different reasons. They aren't pushing the envelope at all and I haven't purchased anything outside the bundle. In this day and age I think that hair should not need so many baked in highlights, some of the initial hair for Genes2 is very toony and outdated.
They can sell me fantasy and sexy clothes all day, but they didn't really try yet. It's the same style stuff we have seen a lot of in this store. Make better form fitting clothing that you couldn't in the past and not sell me 6 variations of the same under garments.
There is more creative female clothing at that other store. Too bad it's all for V4 and won't take advantage of how nice Gen2 is rigged. Maybe autofit will work ok...
Not happy that a female was released first but that is the history of DAZ and how they release things but Genesis 02 is really Genesis with some updates. That's all. Thanks to Kattey and Ben and other helpful folks I've been able to get all of my Bruno and Female shapes over to Gene-02F. Took a little while to figure out the best work flow but after that it was pretty easy. Tedious but easy.
As for a lack of wardrobe .... well MallenLane made a really nice extra for Gene-02F that converts V4's clothing and shoes over very nicely. At least the few items I've tested out. One is particular that I was a little nervous about was B9999's Warrior Princess. It's got some boots. Well we all know the short history of shoes and how they DON'T convert very well over from Gen 4 figures. Seems ALLOT better. I'm impressed. I looked over the mesh afterwards and can't say I need to pop open ZBrush at all for them. MallenLane is a genius as far as I'm concerned. I've read that a few folks ran into issues using her helper files but for me so far it's all good. I just dial up the V4 shape, convert, dial out the V4 shape and then dial up what ever shape I want afterwards. Can't be much easier than that really!
There are some niggles I do have. The surfaces tab is really a mess with all the weird new options that are crammed in there. It will take me some time to get used to that. YUK!
Here is the Warrior Princess using my own shape I made in ZBrush called Strong Girl and the face is a mix of Shay and Ruthe!
I don't see myself buying any Genesis 2 stuff unless they eventually make kids and teens. I am quite happy with the original Genesis figure and its versatility.
Not happy that a female was released first but that is the history of DAZ and how they release things but Genesis 02 is really Genesis with some updates. That's all. Thanks to Kattey and Ben and other helpful folks I've been able to get all of my Bruno and Female shapes over to Gene-02F. Took a little while to figure out the best work flow but after that it was pretty easy. Tedious but easy.
As for a lack of wardrobe .... well MallenLane made a really nice extra for Gene-02F that converts her clothing and shoes over very nicely. At least the few items I've tested out. One is particular that I was a little nervous about was B9999's Warrior Princess. It's got some boots. Well we all know the short history of shoes and how they DON'T convert very well over from Gen 4 figures. Seems ALLOT better. I'm impressed. I looked over the mesh afterwards and can't say I need to pop open ZBrush at all for them. MallenLane is a genius as far as I'm concerned. I've read that a few folks ran into issues using her helper files but for me so far it's all good. I just dial up the V4 shape, convert, dial out the V4 shape and then dial up what ever shape I want afterwards. Can't be much easier than that really!
There are some niggles I do have. The surfaces tab is really a mess with all the weird new options that are crammed in there. It will take me some time to get used to that. YUK!
Here is the Warrior Princess using my own shape I made in ZBrush called Strong Girl and the face is a mix of Shay and Ruthe!
Oh, lovely render. Very realistic. I agree about the surface tabs, I confess, I do not know exactly what all those options are. :Sighs:
I'm gong to have to now look in the store for v4 clothing. I've come to realize my library for female clothings, especially more practical garb is kind of scanty (Er, no pun intended).
Oooh, I like that! Kinda catchy!
Thanks for the nice compliment SereneNight! :-)
I feel like almost everything in the Shop is geared around female characters. I was trying to create a male character to use as a reference for some of my artists (I'm designing a science fiction card game) and it was frustrating trying to figure out what products would work with the Male Genesis figure, or even to find things that were specifically designed for males.