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As soon as he quits trying to blow smoke up my , sure. But considering what I read here knowing the carrara manual had a complete rewrite for C6, "clearly with a clue" goes out the window.
Sorry evilproducer, but when the man comes on to defend DAZ's lacking in promoting carrara, I don't want to hear what he has to say. To me he just doesn't read like a carrara supporter, never has. Dartanbeck is an excellent example of a "to the bone" carrara enthusiast. Personally I love carrara, it has some issues, but I love to work with it. It's DAZ I have issues with. Or at least DAZ's handling of carrara.
What carrara needs is a cheerleader, not a department head. What ever happened to the carrara cheerleaders that used to work at DAZ?
Yes, that is a rhetorical question. ;)
Edit to add: What hostility? I'm not hostile, I'm not even a bit aggravated, at best I'm slightly amused.
Amen. Carrara users have been getting the runaround from DAZ for years. When the program documentation is 2 versions out of date (roughly six years), that's getting pretty close to "abandonware". When DAZ brings out a second generation of content that will not work in production Carrara, we see where the priority is.
Maybe if the DAZ types waited until they actually produced a presentable production upgrade, with documentation, they might get some sympathy. But until then, the attitude is there, but its not on the long suffering, paying customer's end.
And how does going off on Spooky get your point across? Whether you like what he has to say or not, he's been the only one coming here with any information at all. You're also assuming he has any input on who writes, or even hires someone to write the manual.
True - and it's a valid point. I can tell that EP was commenting on how devolved it's gotten since. The Spooky comes on to help with a problem posted in here and he got attacked ever since. That's too bad. Spooky is one cool cat and he deserves a lot better.
I thought the tone of his original comment to me (who was talking to someone else and never heard of Spooky) implied "Maybe you'll change your tune when DAZ fixes everything at the end of the summer." If he had said, "Yes, DAZ has lagged in Carrara support, but we are catching up. Stay tuned", I would probably have said, "Okay, we'll see." Then, the comment about the manual not being updated since V.2 is sheer nonsense, and his later clarification of that comment was even worse. That is the "attitude" I see. Maybe Spooky should give a little credit to a decade long customer and faithful user of Carrara, and one who is quite familiar with the history of DAZ's support for Carrara.
Also, this is not the first time DAZ folks have pooh-poohed Carrara "whiners". But I do recall a certain Carrara plugin developer saying "They (DAZ) hate Carrara".
Finally, my question stands unanswered: Will the "end of summer" production release of Carrara 8.5 include an updated manual, after six years and two and a half version releases? Anybody?
I just don't get you guys - Daz is working on C8.5 and then they said it's on to C9 after that .
What more do you want .
You guys go on about the same stuff all the time .
Go have some fun - doing what ever it is .
I'm not sure of the math claiming the manual is two and a half versions behind? The official build is C8.1 (a point release), and my manual says it's for Carrara 7. That's only one version behind. Maybe 1.3 versions behind if you count the point releases such as C7.2 and C8.1. Holy crap! What slackers!
You're sarcasm is my point, especially from one who accuses others of "one-upping" people. I have C8 Pro 64 bit, the supplied manual is C6. If there is a C7 manual available, I was never notified, and I cannot find it on the DAZ website. Even so, where is the C8 manual, after three years?
And again, will the Carrara 8.5 Production release include an updated manual?
I am having fun, and have posted many Carrara animations on YouTube, as some of you know. But when I point out the way less than acceptable support for Carrara, and get my face spit in, I object. The "more" that I want is program support, like a manual.
Once again: Will the Production Release of Carrara 8.5 include an updated manual? Its a simple question, yes or no?
Oh please get over the off topic manual. This has nothing to do with the manual, that has become a red herring.
As has getting info about C8.5 or C9. I couldn't give a rats hairless tail about C9.
I personally have no issue with the manual. I have issues understanding it and 3DAGE has gotten me further in carrara then any manual ever could.
What this thread is about is getting carrara out there as more then an afterthought. A gray link at the bottom of a half empty page.
Is there some issue with me having pride in carrara and wanting it to be more prominently displayed in the DAZ store?
That is what this thread has been about since the first post. I could put up several examples of how easy it would be to make DAZ's other apps look like less of an after thought.
I am having fun, and have posted many Carrara animations on YouTube, as some of you know. But when I point out the way less than acceptable support for Carrara, and get my face spit in, I object. The "more" that I want is program support, like a manual.
Once again: Will the Production Release of Carrara 8.5 include an updated manual? Its a simple question, yes or no?
Last thing we "need" is a manual, I can give you a list of features I would rather see before a manual. And carrara does have a lot of users always willing to help when you have questions. And the best thing is, unlike a manual with a mono view point, on a forum you can get several suggestions for help.
And not the topic at hand. At least spooky stayed on topic.
beam me up.
laughing to hard
I'd like to take a sec to thank the mods for being so magnanimous with this thread. I do appreciate it.
But my argument hasn't changed. In my opinion DAZ does not do carrara justice. DAZ does not promote it and even coming to the site looking for it will make you wonder if DAZ even sells it. No carrara isn't hidden, but it is so obscured by the hard push of content and Studio that even some one looking for it wont have as easy a time finding it as I think they should.
Spooky's comments were out of line, as I explained above. My politeness seems to be holding up nicely. I also wondered if I was to get locked out due to my comments. I didn't.
I've finally done it! I bought The Carrara Advance Pack, Scratches Brushes for Carrara, and Magaremoto's 15 Shaders for Exteriors! Well... and Predatron's Lorez Horse. Things that I've been wanting since I've seen them. There's still a lot more on that same list... but after seeing Holly Wetcircuit's cool reviews for plugins, and then Carrara Plugins FAQ & Information - By Jay_NOLA(what a pal!), I decided that I'd like to collect all of the Carrara Plugins simply because they help to truly make Carrara complete, for that time - where the software stands. These plugin developers, in my opinion, are our Carrara developers as well - and I want to incorporate much of what they've done into my experience too!
All of these plugins in the Advance Pack are ones that I've really wanted. Primivol was on the top of that list. I just really want to mess with Carrara volumetrics and this is certainly the way to do it - at least for a start - for me. Looking through the pack, and I noticed that the rest of them were equally as important, again... to me. But who else wouldn't want all of the power that Velouté 2 adds to our shader room? I think I might be the only Carraraist left who didn't have these tools! lol
Baker, Deeper, Replica! Yeah baby!!! Not quite sure what SWAP is all about yet... but I know I'll find it handy or Inagoni wouldn't have kept it there. It doesn't include Shaper. So I have that one and Architools to round out my Inagoni collection.
Next on my list in the plugins department will be the DCG collection. I'm noticing that the more stuff like this that I get, the more I end up learning about the workings of Carrara and new tips pop up and my inspiration goes wild!
I own the entire Fenric collection from DAZ3D - but I've experienced difficulties getting purchases from his den. I'll have to contact him about that some time.
Magaremoto's Shaders are so cool! They seem similar to ones that I make, but he has a different style that I really like. I have his beach scene in that same "Props for Landscapes" line, which is awesome!
Scratches popped into mind as I was daydreaming today - while I was helping my dad and art came into the discussion. I never said any of my idea out loud... but I did bring up my cool Wacom Graphire 3 tablet - which I'm really taking a liking to in Dogwaffle, so my day dream was to test out using it in Carrara for painting in 3d - and immediately GK Danta's/Ron's brushes came into mind. I know this is going to be fun!
The Lorez Horse? Well that's a new Carrara addition (for me, anyways!!!) as well. Always wanted to use it - see how well it animates. All of my Predatron Lorez figures are dynamite in that regard. He puts in special dials to assist in immediate pose/animation setting or correcting - depending upon what your doing. Exactly like the Morphforms. There. Got the horse. He can play with my Mil Horse and DAZ Horse 2 and horse around a bit while I try out all of my new Carrara tools and toys.
'Twas a drop of coin... but it was fun! I just finished the first phase at my stone job and got a tidy bonus for surviving the heat wave - Some fun stuff! It's basically a winding curving cliff face interrupted with large sheets of natural, moss covered limestone slabs thhat will allow safe access to the top - without looking like stairs at all. The owners don't know all of that yet. They just like what I do - so they hire me, and cut me loose, and then they pay me. They (collectively all of the people whom I do this for) all gave me several raises last year and again once more this year. I tell them: "No, no... too kind already..." They smile and walk away - raise my rate anyways!
They moved three ginormous trees the week before last. I told them that they'll have to really pamper them with constant, subtle moisture and cool roots or moving them during this heat will remove all life from their majesty. Now they're paying me to keep their trees alive! lol
So Monday I'll build them a timed irrigation system. More money means more plugins and more 3d bliss. Oh... and flowers for Rosie!
There... did I take your mind off of the whole funky thing going on? I'm sure Spooky's feelings aren't hurt - and my comment on the subject was just a comment in passing - no accusation or ...
I love Steve, I love Spooky, I love you too. I think that what Spooky meant in the first place is that, in the past up to the most recent, official edition, the manual has simply been added to and tweaked from what it's been for the versions before it - and I believe that the intention was to create a whole new tome regarding this massively near infinite authoring suite. An enormous endeavor.
However... I openly admit that I haven't been reading everything up to this point. I just saw on this page that something is still going on about that. I could be alone here... but I'd far rather open up Carrara and make some art. Fighting amongst friends can be fun sometimes... luckily it, most of the time, finds a simmering point and we're all laughing and showing off pictures of mostly naked wome.... I mean... art. Yeah... our creative sides!
wow you type fast :)
we should have a thread about plugins, about what people use them for and how.
I have plugins that are look amazing but
I cannot understand how to use them because I am a thickhead sadly.
No man...
it took me a long time to type all of that!
I must be thick headed too. I'm stuck trying to get them to take the dog gone serial numbers. Well - it takes them, but then I have to enter them again the next time :( Yeah... no. It'll get fixed I'm sure. Can't wait to play with them - but it nighty night time. Spent too much time typing! lol
The horse is amazing!
Hover you pointer over the shop tab, why isn't it alphabetical?
If the other DAZ appes menu heading was applications, and it was alphabetical, apps would be first. It's all about placement.
You all have seen my proposed change to the front page. It doesn't remove anything from the page, it makes use of dead space and makes DAZ's other apps far more visible. Just the name of the app and it's top 10 features is leaps and bounds better then a grayed out link.
I'm sorry, but I just don't think asking DAZ's marketing dept to push DAZ's other apps a little harder is being unreasonable.
They really do have an incredibly powerful marketing strategy in play already towards allowing others to get their feet wet in Carrara via 3D World magazine. Scroll to the bottom of this page and you'll see that those interested in this great world of 3d enough to find their way to this popular (in the field) avenue of great, up-to-date material can get a free copy of Carrara 6, which is very similar to what we use today in how it works and it's features - fully functional. Somebody has some pull towards Carrara at Amazon, as Infinite Skills just released a $9.99 version of the $99.99 Basic Learning through Phil Wilkes for mobile devices. Type into Amazon's search: "Carrara Training" and you'll see all sorts of DVD's that Amazon is ready to ship immediately.
DAZ marketing team works far beyond the pages that some of us may have become attached to. Quite frankly, if you've come to DAZ 3D in search of Carrara, you'll find it. As for it not being shown off in all glittering lights I, and everyone at DAZ3D will agree with you. This is a whole new store site, still heavily under construction - with great attention given to where it needed to first: the artists whom have been our big hitters and deserve their names in the spotlight. Not to say others don't, mind you... as a lot of this began as stepping stones, I'm sure, into the new territory that got DAZ to look into this engine in the first place. I saw the images I uploaded for my latest product come to life that first day of launch - instead of the little box we used to get. These are full resolution shots!
DAZ3D has always been about content - I know you're aware and are tired of hearing it, I apologize for that... but the truth of that fact puts the emergency that this thread does imply on less of a demanding "Need to Fix" agenda than one would think. If this was Autodesk's site, some heads would be rolling right now.
Keep in mind that, although I am a PA here, this post is all just of my own opinion from open eyes and was not gleaned through any real information I might have received aside from haphazardly paying attention to what's been going on around us.
I agree. I want to see DAZ3D's aps sell. I order to generate more of that, they really need to make them much more noticeable. But I can tell they've not been ignoring the issue, by exploring the "Product" tab in the store page. Since the drop down for the hover-over disappeared, I've not really checked it out until yesterday. I like the exploding car model in the modeling tab, and that Carrara composite film is a great video to show of the animation power of Carrara.
I must do a derail like Dart and share some love too!
yes Spooky, ManStan, Steve etc, we love you, Carrara loves you and I am sure even Daz loves you.
I have been playing for a couple of days with a software that costs over $5 grand
it is cool and all with wiz bang features and easy enough I coukd do stuff in it straight away without RTFM
but
it does not love me
not one iddy bit
it is well promoted, the CGI industry standard
but
at that bloody price after my 30days is up it is coming off my computer for good!
Carrara will always be on any computer I own I am certain
(albeit it will not do much with no electricity after the zombie appocalyse)
Daz is developing it unlike Bryce and Hexagon so I am content with that.
The discussion of the Carrara manual has been moved here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25968/
Please respect the OP's wishes and keep that discussion separate.
Okay, sorry, I posted that last one before I read your post. I don't agree that the lack of product support/manual is off topic, but you're the boss.
True. It's not.
For a while, the "Products" tab had a hover-over drop-down that led to the various aps stores. I liked that - but I bet they have something better in mind. I recall reading somewhere that there's a new kid on the block that is going to help fix all of these marketing anomalies. Was it fact, fiction, or was it indeed a dream I've had? I really cannot recall. But you're right. All of the aps need some lovin'.
As for Bryce and Hex, I don't recall ever seeing or reading any official word from anywhere... but do you think DAZ is not going to develop them anymore, for sure? I kind of doubt that is the case. Maybe put on hold while they get their bearings... but I doubt they'll let them wither away to nothing. And in the meantime, they're here for anyone who needs to buy the versions that have been made available.
I still think that Carrara is easier to find now than it was before DAZ3D took it over.
No I haven't seen anything concrete that says Bryce and Hex are out of production. But then DAZ has never been known for giving concrete production info. Ya never know, we may see an update to Bryce and/or Hex between C8.5 and C9. Of coarse I am not at all optimistic about it.
Thing is, if they do how well promoted will it be? Will it be a blip and gone like the last Bryce update?
LOL!
And then click the blip to get: "Bryce is a software pack that allows for 3d manipulation for which to form your own, nice custom landscapes!" will some nearly unrelated picture next to those words, "quoted, and in bold italics!"
lol
I hope that there's someone working on those new pages as we speak. I really do.
I meant Daz is SEEN to be developing Carrara, not from any personal knowledge or anything, we have an active beta.
Poor Bryce seems forgotten and Hex HAD its beta a couple of years back before they finally appeared to think it was fixed enough already.
Yeah, I know. I sure hope that both of those get some lovin' once Carrara, Daz Studio and DSON for Poser get nailed down to DAZ's liking. I'm thinking possibly after Carrara 9? (hoping that they do C9 first! lol)
And that's part of my problem. We've had an active beta for how long? Lemme drop a tangentially related date on you: July 1, 2011. That's the date that Apple released Mac OS 10.7, code name "Lion." Not "Mountain Lion"; that's 10.8. We're talking about 10.7 here, the first version of Mac OS that was deemed properly incompatible with Carrara 8.1. Carrara 8.5 has been in development since before that.
The perception is not that Daz is developing Carrara. The perception is that Daz is halfheartedly and disgustedly pushing the unappetizing, greasy, cold remains of Carrara around the plate, making it look more and more inedible with each passing nudge. Meanwhile, those people at the next table over are enjoying their Daz Studio cake. And other prospective customers look in the window, see what the specialties of the house are like, and think to themselves, "Yeah, the pastries are pretty, but I'm more in the mood for modeling and texturing. Let's check out the menu over at Chez Modo."
I know, I know, we were promised great things for 8.5 and 9 after that. They were lovely words.
Getting a new serial every other month is not seen as being in development. Actual beta releases are, and updates to the C8.5 beta have been very few and very far between.
But just what has DAZ released lately? I don't mean what PA's have made and are selling through DAZ; which is G2, but what has come out of DAZ? Is DAZ actually developing anything right now or are they just the sales rep for the PA's?
Even Studio isn't getting updates like it used to. And PA's are having to making work arounds for issues DAZ seems disinclined to fix.
I get this feeling DAZ has went 100% marketing and dropping it all on the PA's shoulders.
I agree, well put. Its a sad situation for us faithful users of Carrara for many years.