A Collision Tool!! (pipe dream?)
DDCreate
Posts: 1,398
I think it would be really cool if there was something sort of script in the vein of Fit Control that set some sort of collision parameters on characters. This is an example. My characters are a bit of an unruly bunch and it's not uncommon at all for a fight to break out. And for my part, as the artist, I have to do my job to make it look as real as possible. So character A takes a swing at character B and I have to do these infinite adjustment and re-adjustments to make sure A's fist doesn't disapper into B's face (no matter how much A wants that to happen) and it can be tricky. So it would be cool if you could apply a script that wouldn't allow A's fist to penetrate, sort of like a paper thin force field. What do you think? Best idea ever or am I dreaming?
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Comments
Am I understanding this correctly? You'd like a character's geometry to deform when something (like the fist of another character) is pressed into it?
You need to use Unity, UE4, and other game engines as their physics engines are ports of the nVidia physx (spelling?) engine. However, even with that engine if the CPU or GPU or collision boundaries aren't just so and fast enough, their will be penetration of meshes by each other.
You might be able to do it with the SimTenero Shape Reprojector.
I only just picked it up, but I saw in the comercial thread where someone had a cusion indent where a figure was standing on it.
I don't need an indent to occur. I was just thinking it would take some of the minute adjustments out of the way. "oops, fist is in his face...oops, fist is too far away...damn now it's in his face again" I just meant that like if I was using the Active Pose Tool and could drag the fist to the face and it automatically stops once the 2 parts touch. Again, I know I'm dreaming big. It was just a thought.
That is a job for Unity, UE4, and the like.
I think the OP would like this feature in DAZ Studio; perhaps as an addon, but in real-time in DS. I would like that too.
Yes, well I know that but if they want to do so sooner they may in Unity or UE4 as DAZ Studio developers may never implement integrating a 'game ready complete' physics engine into it.
I wish DAZ would modify the Lit Wireframe view mode so that you can somehow select two objects for collision testing, and then the wireframe in areas where they intersect will be drawn in a "hot" color. Following the description @DDCreate gave of trying to position a fist to just touch but not penetrate a face, as you move the character's fist into the face, the hot patches would grow larger, and you'd be able to gauge visually when to back off. This would be useful for positioning characters on furniture, making them hold hands or grab objects, etc.
It wouldn't be as automatic as requested, but currently the problem with trying to fix object penetration is that it's difficult to see: you have to check from several angles, and it's hard to really see what's going on unless you're using the Iray preview mode--in which case the small adjustments are painfully slow as you wait for screen refreshes. Showing collision highlights in Lit Wireframe mode would eliminate those problems and make the adjustments far easier. And once the collision-detection algorithm is present and perfected in DAZ Studio, maybe a future enhancement to the Active Pose Tool could make it act as if a force field resists letting you increase intersection between two objects.
The OP is quite right. DAZ lacks some kind of physics. Okay - dForce is really nice. You can even use it on some hair. It´s a huge leap towards realism. But let´s be honest. We all know those promo pictures with Genesis whatever lying on a sofa or bed - but it always looks phony and almost pathetic.
Something is wrong. Ever tried Genesis in a waterplane? There should be ripples and swells - otherwise it does look horribly unrealistic. I´m wondering why average game engines ca do all that with ease nowadays while still looking photorealistic.
DAZ simply cannot afford to remain static. Poser did remain static for too long.
You want advanced features, move to a fully fledged modeling app like Blender, Maya, or Max and learn to do some things for yourselves instead of relying on a PA to create a product for you.There are workarounds for many of the things being asked for, but that would mean being creative and actually doing some of the work.
game engines are designed for specific uses and the effects you want are usually expected in games. DS is not a game engine and it does quite a lot for a free app and is good at what it is developed for. As for being static, seriously?! dforce is a huge leap forward and Iray before that was also. DS has improved much over the years, but apparently some users are just expecting way to much or are overly impatient. Did I mention it's FREE! Poser isn't free, so it's not a valid comparison, just saying.
There are many users, myself included that would like to have more features, but lets be realistic and see the big picture instead of focusing on our own small needs. I've imported genesis into Garry's Mod (personal use) and love the physics in that engine and would love to have that in DS, but again, DS isn't a game engine and I doubt ragdoll physics is much of a priority since there doesn't seem to be a big animation user base using DS
As for a collision tool, deformers can do most of what you want for now
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081/dforce-start-here#latest
I'm afraid that is not a very helpful comment. Perhaps the OP should become a professional CG artist and open his/her own Animation Studio? DAZ Studio is a way of entering the CG world without too big a learning curve. There may be many reasons why the OP, and many of us DAZ clients, can't or don't spend 8 hours a day creating stills or animations. It is not at all unreasonable for the OP to ask for tools which would make DS more useful (or easier to use).
"DS is not a game engine and it does quite a lot for a free app and is good at what it is developed for. As for being static, seriously?! dforce is a huge leap forward and Iray before that was also. DS has improved much over the years, but apparently some users are just expecting way to much or are overly impatient. Did I mention it's FREE! Poser isn't free, so it's not a valid comparison, just saying."
Please let's not get into a discussion about DS being "free" and the business model has adopted. Did I mention that there is no such thing as "FREE"?
"DS isn't a game engine and I doubt ragdoll physics is much of a priority since there doesn't seem to be a big animation user base using DS"
I wonder to what extent DS does not have a big animation user base and why? Clearly there are some very cool animation tools available for DS, but if there were more and better animation tools available then perhaps the user base would expand.
As for dForce, I refer to Richards comment.
So, DDCreate, Serious7 and others, please keep asking for these advanced features in DS. Otherwise DAZ3d may just say that there isn't much demand!
If Blender's collision tool is anything to go by, it will require a lot of processing power.
It wasn't my intent to start any arguments or anything. It was just a thought I had after a particularily trying pose session. I don't have the skills or abilities to make this myself. Before I got into Daz, I couldn't tell a GPU from RAM. I love Daz, I have NO complaints about anything. I knew it was sort of an "out there" concept but in the past I've asked if there was a way to "X" in Daz and sure enough, there was! I don't even want to think about the time I wasted before I found out that Edit>Duplicate Nodes and Hierarchies was a thing. In the far back of my mind I was hoping that someone would read my orginal post and say "Duh, got to Parameters and select...."
There should be no contradictoriness between DAZ and advanced features! Learning the ropes of a fully fledged app can kill a summer vacation. Scratching the surfaces took me weeks last year. First of all it´s a question of time, time and time and money (if we skip Blender).
It´s "our small needs" what drives revenue for DAZ.
The deformer as a collision tool can be okay, but depends on the geometry of the object. Nice deviantArt gallery by the way!
A method to dent surfaces without applying a special modifier to the dented object but by the denting object would be great. An arm gripped with litte dents shown at the skin, a cushion whith dents when someone sits on it or just hair pressed down by headwear. Not as real time animation but calculated. You should be able to make parts of figures/objects a denting modifier temporarily. I don't know wether this could even be possible to code in this engine. I also did not think of something like dForce in the past however.
Individual small dents can be made with deformers. The problem is that you will have limited control as to the shape of the dent. You can change the size and shape (x,y,z axes) of the Sphere-of-Influence and the magnet itself. However the changes still result in a spheroid shape and you will need a separate deformer for each dent. The deformers can overlap but getting the kind of dent you want might get very complicated very quickly. Another method would be to paint a Displacement map, however this is a trial and error approach (unless you are very skilled) and you can only see the results in the final render.
The ability to morph the figure/object mesh in Hi Rez and in real time in DS, would be ideal for making the kind of dents and irregular depressions or bumps you want. Some form of morphing brush(es) would be the best way to achieve this.
https://www.daz3d.com/simtenero-shape-reprojector
In some cases this could be suitable mimiking collisions to some extend. I grabbed it at a discount, but haven´t been able to spend time for testing yet.
I suppose you could try to combine a hand with a figures arm to get a rough approximation to the hand shaped indents. Again this seems to be a blunt tool and still trial and error. We need DAZ3d (or a clever PA) to produce a set of mesh altering brush tools for real time use in DS. This would be useful not just for dents and bumps, but for dealing with poke-through or mesh distortion caused by autofit. It could also be used for making fine adjustments to draping of clothing, adding natural looking wrinkles to clothing (and even skin if it worked with the subdivision in DS).
We can suggest work-arounds for all these, but in the end we need the proper tools for the jobs at hand.