HELP me understand PLEASE Poser-Genesis DSON ??? UH - it works!
MKeyes
Posts: 466
Okay, first let me put some disclaimers in here...
1.) NO - I am not at all trying to start an argument or stir up any crap.
2.) This thread is to HELP ME - understand WHY so much Poser user displeasure at Daz, Genesis, V5 - M5 Etc. etc. etc.
Okay, this is the thing... as some MIGHT know, I am a hardcore Daz Studio user, have been for a very long time. While I have had Poser software from as far back as Poser 5 - I could not get myself to use it. I KNEW how to use it, but it kind of irritated me to use it. I found Daz Studio EASIER for me to use.
So, coming forward, I - despite my love for Daz Studio, continued to purchase Poser 6, 7, 9 - PP 2012 and now, PP2014 that my honey PUT HIS FOOT DOWN ON... that if I didn't use it, come to LOVE IT, there would be hell in this house. Heehee...
Soooo, I took a WEEK to force myself to use Poser and NOT turn it off to switch Daz Studio on. First let me say, the reason I kept buying Poser in the first place over and over is because I have ALWAYS - ALWAYS I repeat, LOVED what it dose, the results of using it. Simply stunning... so... I kept getting it even though I couldn't wrap my patience around sticking with using it.
Present day... because Hubby put his foot down... guess what... yes, I'm now using Poser Pro 2014 and actually loving it. Using it, and producing with it. HOWEVER... now comes the reason for this thread......
I haven't used it as much as I wanted to because I really like Genesis, V5, M5, and now... V6... well, TODAY... I thought, well - WHY doesn't this DSON WORK the way so many Poser folks say it doesn't work and thus, the reason they RESENT Daz3d for selling Genesis, V5, M5 and on... thus they are FORCED to use V4 - which I love btw - but yeah... sooo I started reading and looking for my own DSON thingy, which I've never installed, because as I've explained, I've been using Daz Studio.
Today, I found it, installed it to Poser - to Poser Pro 2014 and to my SHOCK........... it WORKS!!!!
I'm like...................... HUH? Yes, scratching head.... and I said, "What the...." I thought it didn't work? I thought Poser folks could not, COULD NOT use Genesis? Could NOT use V5? Could NOT use M5?
Uh... well, ME - a Poser NEWBIE for all intents and purposes, first time TRYING IT.... got it to work! In fact, all I did, was install it and then went on to open Poser Pro 2014 and then in PP 2014, found Genesis... and it loaded.
Yes... Genesis loaded into Poser Pro 2014... I then went on to find all the various MORPHS that I have... and began simply playing around to SEE if they too worked.... well guess what... THEY WORKED? Now to be fair, I haven't dressed my guy or anything... so maybe the problem lies there.
But... for now... here's my played with made up guy...
What I would like to know is and understand also is - WHY such angst against Genesis, V5 and M5 by the Poser community? The DSON DOES work... the morphs DO work. The character within Poser is there for me to play with and in a second I'm going to go dress him.
Why has this been such an issue - when DSON makes Genesis completely compatible with Poser?
HELP ME please understand this division that has taken place?
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Comments
Apart from having had multiple copies of Poser I am in the exact same boat as you - tried Poser (Poser 7) and could not adapt to how it worked, got on much better with Daz Studio. Recently bit the bullet and bought Poser Pro 2014 (I had been pondering getting a newer version of Poser as reports of it's functionality and usability improved). Still finding it not as intuitive (for me) as DS.
I have installed DSON but seem to have an issue - I suspect I need to read the (lack of) documentation that it comes with! :) Off to prowl through the message board to see what I have missed (I suspect a 'mere' case of not adding the right content library).
I did at first too - look in the Programs Files - and make sure it did not install it for Poser Pro 2012 in a separate folder (runtime) - actually creating a runtime all by itself for PP 2012 - if it did, copy the runtime from it, and paste it into your Poser Pro 2014 runtime.
Then restart 2014 again and it should work. IF that is, that is what happened to you.
I use both Daz Studio and Poser Pro 2010. It's an old copy of Poser which is why I ended up migrating to DS in the first place since it's incompatible with the DSON. Curiously, another reason why I made the switch was because I had heard a lot of people complaining about the DSON importer and getting Genesis to function. Rather than put down the hundreds needed to upgrade Poser, possibly ending up unable to use Genesis, I could get the free Daz Studio and put those hundreds to better use on content. So I did.
The nightmare stories are why I had avoided the upgrade in the first place and why I moved to Daz. I will say however that it's certainly been a very smooth transition and I'm now actually better with Daz Studio than I ever had been with Poser. Whether that's purely down to the software is a matter for debate, but if there hadn't been so many DSON complaints, I might never have found my calling.
How cool is that!!!! Wow, I love reading this! I'm like you - I have BOTH on my computer. Because BOTH are worth learning and using. Poser is excellent for certain things, but Daz Studio is BETTER for others... like very big scenes where loads of content needs to be loaded. Unfortunately, Poser can't handle that, at least not on my computer, and I have a 16gb ram syste. I was building a scene in it yesterday, had two figures, a car, landscape layout a house and was adding more when it CRASHED... *sigh*
Anyway... I wish more people would be fair minded and give Daz Studio a chance, you can't beat free. It would costs NOTHING to slowly give it a go. But oh well... the whole reason for this thread was - that in some cases, if your system is up to speed, DSON importer does work. Which means so can Genesis, V5 and V6...
TRUTH - it is a bit sluggish and slow - that I did notice - perhaps that could be worked on - but in any case... yeah, I'm enjoying this new found alternative that certainly gives me so many more options!
I love a world with OPTIONS! :;-):
Various error messages pointed the way, plus a scan of the DSON-related posts here and a trip to the wiki. Between all those I worked out the rather glaringly obvious - I either needed to re-install the Starter Essentials into a Poser attached runtime or add my My Library to the list of Poser runtimes. For some, daft, reason I assumed that handling all that would have been done by the PoserCF files. The reason I installed the stuff the way I have is to keep Poser and Daz Studio stuff separate! ;)
Having added My Library to Poser runtimes, it know seems to want to work.
How cool is that!!!! Wow, I love reading this! I'm like you - I have BOTH on my computer. Because BOTH are worth learning and using. Poser is excellent for certain things, but Daz Studio is BETTER for others... like very big scenes where loads of content needs to be loaded. Unfortunately, Poser can't handle that, at least not on my computer, and I have a 16gb ram syste. I was building a scene in it yesterday, had two figures, a car, landscape layout a house and was adding more when it CRASHED... *sigh*
Anyway... I wish more people would be fair minded and give Daz Studio a chance, you can't beat free. It would costs NOTHING to slowly give it a go. But oh well... the whole reason for this thread was - that in some cases, if your system is up to speed, DSON importer does work. Which means so can Genesis, V5 and V6...
TRUTH - it is a bit sluggish and slow - that I did notice - perhaps that could be worked on - but in any case... yeah, I'm enjoying this new found alternative that certainly gives me so many more options!
I love a world with OPTIONS! :;-):
I know what you mean - I have Daz Studio 4.6 Pro, Bryce 7 Pro, Carrara 8 Pro, Poser Pro 2014. Of which I am happiest with Daz Studio, then Bryce. Carrara and Poser give me the heebie-jeebies so far as doing things and finding out how and where to do them go, but I am going to persevere - each has it's pros and cons.
Cool, that didn't take long for you to find the fix... well I'm working on something with V5 right now... see if I can get a decent render out of PP 2014 with Genesis...
Just done a side-by-side of the exact scene Gia with X dress (with red sequin MAT), Xanadu hair (with copper MAT) and the Tsukiko IBL lighting (as both DS and Poser have them) and ... wow, quite a difference - a lot, I think, down to the lighting not actually being the same! ;)
Cool, but the thing is, you got them to work in Poser... once you do the lighting in it, it will be pretty nice as well. I don't have Gia yet - but does she ever look good with just that.
You know what, I have to say this, is Daz Studio 4.6 Pro not the BOMB! I LOVE IT - it has come a long way from the days of the beta, and this one in particular, is stunning! You are so tempting me to close PP and open DS... but I won't...
I've never used Poser, but like you I always wondered what the problem with Poser DSON was. It just didn't make sense that Daz would release an importer for Poser that wouldn't work. And I don't understand the difference between Native and Non-Native (if the figure loads and works, what's the difference?)
On the other hand I see lots of complaining from Poser users for Daz going with Genesis (and now G2F) instead of V4. Yet if you go to another store that caters to Poser users, there's very little new Genesis stuff being listed (with some notable exceptions), even by PA's that list stuff on the Daz store. Underlying all this is a subtle current of resentment against Genesis for some reason. Some of the PA's there wont even bother to make DS materials for their models, and the store policy is buyer beware, if it doesn't specifically say its for DS, then don't count on it working. I think Daz does a much better job catering to Poser users than the the independent stores with DS.
Cool, but the thing is, you got them to work in Poser... once you do the lighting in it, it will be pretty nice as well. I don't have Gia yet - but does she ever look good with just that.
You know what, I have to say this, is Daz Studio 4.6 Pro not the BOMB! I LOVE IT - it has come a long way from the days of the beta, and this one in particular, is stunning! You are so tempting me to close PP and open DS... but I won't...
DS: "open me ... use me, you know you want, look at what I can do ... uuuuusssssse meeeee! Think how easy lighting is ..."
PS: "don't listen to him, use me instead, watch my clothing flex and bend and morph ..."
Well I'm playing in it - and I am noticing with expressions, eyes and various other things, it's slow to respond. I feel to get it working better has more to do with my inexperience with Poser and DSON that anything else.
I did this one, everything was fine up until I tried to open this character's eyes more. (Boy does she look like Whitney Houston - all by accident) - anyway, for now, play time is over... I have to get my writing time in, but I'll be back to play more once I do some more reading up on using Genesis in Poser.
Thanks all for comments...
In anycase, it's really to each his own, BUT - to learn both programs and use them to their best advantage, really does offer a greater range if one has an adventurous spirit and refuse to let anything keep them from enjoying all the models at hand. Oh well - I'm off for now, gotta write... ciao all!
You are kind of getting into using Genesis in Poser at the perfect time. Poser Pro 2014 is really the best version of Poser for working with Genesis in my opinion. Between DSON and the DSON Loader script from D3D getting Genesis content into Poser is much easier now and with 2014's Subdivision you can really get Genesis looking its best. I have been one of the angry grumbling frustrated voices over Genesis and Poser for a while now, but now that is starting to change and I am starting to use Genesis more and more. And I have heard things that the next version of Poser or even possibly the next SR for Poser might even add more ease of use for Genesis.
I still have a couple of grumbles about Genesis, but my list of gripes is shortening. My biggest one right now is not being able to turn off visibility for individual body parts on Genesis. As an artist that uses a lot of post work, I find it useful to turn visibility on and off and render things in bits and pieces. So far turning off visibility on Genesis body parts seems to do nothing. Maybe I will figure out a way to do this eventually.
Poser's new Sub-d in 2014 is awesome with Genesis. When you have a figure selected, click Figure, Then Skinning Method, and then select Poser Unimesh. Then in the property tab for the figure set the Subdivision Level for the Render slider to 1 or 2. It really makes a huge difference to how the figures look when rendered, especially for extreme creature morphs and on the pretty ladies.
Genesis in Poser still isnt perfect.... but it is moving in the right direction. I am much less grumbly
And don't forget, in Poser Pro 2014, you can have an Unflatable Pony
Thanks... this is very true! I found that to be so in my case as well. I tried to make certain parts invisible because of poke through, no deal! Wouldn't do it. So maybe this is what it is... Poser Pro 2014 being better suited for it than people with previous versions.
Thank you for coming on here and explaining this. As I'm in 2014 - I can't vouch for 2012 and back... so yeah, I see the issues. I so hope that Poser and Daz3d with Genesis work on and fix it all... because I really enjoy Generation five thru Genesis. As time goes by, and more advancements are made, hopefully all of this will be ironed out and things can be better for all.
Again... thanks!
Poke Through should never be a problem in 2014, the tighten setting in the morphing tool is awesome at fixing poke through, select the conformed clothing, hit the morphing tool, select tighten, for goal set it for the figure that is wearing the clothes, then paint out the poke through. Even though the setting is named "tighten" by setting the goal figure it will pull the polys out until the poke through is gone. Its a really handy new feature in 2014
Oh cool, I will try that... I'm learning to use Poser, so there is loads of things I'm not familiar with yet, but I'm leaning. Will give this a go later.
Cheers!
I have been using Poser since version 3, but Poser Pro 2014 has added a butt load of new features, even for me there is still a lot to learn, but i am getting there. If you ever have Poser questions, feel free to ask.
You may just regret that! :) It's the list of new stuff that has been rolled-in (or updated) in the past couple of releases that persuaded me and my money to be parted. Lots of things about which I know nothing to look at, get confused and frustrated over! :)
Lmbo... sooo true! I won't burden you with that... but if anyone responding here so far, can you tell me - what Forum, site, or place is the best place to go to learn the various steps to texturing.
I badly - BADLY wish to start texturing characters for V6 and for another character. I am about to purcahse 3D Coat or RealityPain3d - the latter used to be BlacksmithPaint...
I'm stuck on trying to figure out how to import or bring in the character obj. WITH the UV bump map... I'm stuck. In between writing, I've been searching for the best place to find help for this, so far... haven't found the place.
But I need to find it in order to give RealityPaint and 3D Coat a good tryout before I make my purchase of one or the other.
no idea. not used either of those programs, i paint the old fashioned way in a 2D program
I'm seriously considering going that route - because it too works. Now I shall go see if I can search out Genesis 2 template to do a UV map of her... and then, to texturing I will go...
Does the morphing tool in 2014 work on Genesis clothing? It didn't work well in 2012, which was one of my complaints with Genesis.
You're right. a naked Genesis works decently in Poser. Especially, once a script was made available which turned off the limits that prevented using morphs set below 0.
My problems mostly began when I added clothing and attempted to get that clothing to fit on the morphed Genesis figure. I was also less satisifed with the Genesis clothing I purchased, which was rarely the case with Gen 4 clothing I purchased.
That may be the unisex nature of Genesis clothing and the learning curve of creating Genesis clothing. Or it may be that I mostly only purchased PC clothing (during that massive PC sale in October/November). However, PC products are generally as high quality as PA products, and I wasn't entirely satisfied with the few pieces of PA Genesis clothing I purchased either. So, it may well be the unisex nature. The unisex concept must not have been a complete success, or Genesis2 would still be unisex instead of having male and female separated again.
I also found Genesis didn't pose as well in Poser as it does in DS, and I would get crumpled joints with normal poses. That may be improved in Poser Pro 2014 with subdivision.
Despite doing everything DAZ said to do to prevent the embedded library from freezing, within a few minutes of running the transfer active morphs script, my library was no longer functional. I prefer the embedded library, so having a library that you can't switch tabs, expand folders, or load content is rather frustrating.
Genesis may work better in Poser Pro 2014 than the previous versions, but, I don't have the kind of money to allow me to invest in Genesis/V5/M5/S5/F5/etc., then Genesis2Female/V6/etc., and then Genesis2Male/M6/etc, AND in the new Poser/DS weight mapped figure. So, I am investing in the figure that will work natively in Poser.
Yep yep... I see all of that, so true - you're right. So now I see - while PP 2014 let's Genesis in... once there, in the midst of trying to make a lovely work of art... things stick, get choppy, and becomes a pain in the butt. As I've played, I see what drove so many nuts. Now, because I like Daz Studio as well - I can go right into it and do what I liked.
I sure hope that Daz and Poser is working these things out... because if they did - Oh what a wonderful 3D world this would be! Hahahaha
ok the morphing tool kind of sucks with genesis clothing, it worked so well on gen 3 and gen 4 stuff i just assumed it would work on Genesis stuff as well, no idea why Genesis stuff is different
You know what, this could very well be the reason for Genesis 2 and V6... they realize that no matter how good Genesis is - it will not work right in Poser - so here comes the next and new generation, which is truly, the best EVER anyway... let's see how this generation does in Poser down the road.
I'm really glad it works for you !!
When I load gen2 in PP2014 it loads and that's it, my library freezes up and I can't continue, i guess it must be my PC.
You know what, this could very well be the reason for Genesis 2 and V6... they realize that no matter how good Genesis is - it will not work right in Poser - so here comes the next and new generation, which is truly, the best EVER anyway... let's see how this generation does in Poser down the road.
Actually i have been doing some experimenting with getting the morphing tool to work with Genesis clothes. There are some setting adjustments you have to make in the properties tabs in order for it to work like it does in the Gen 4s. When I get it all worked out and if and when i get some time i might do a tutorial on it.
As you have discovered, there is big difference between importing a single Genesis figure into Poser and actually being able to use Genesis in Poser as you would V4. I can create a scene with a mega prop like Mountain Rites and six or seven full morphed, textured and clothed Gen 4 figures and two or three of AM's Lions with fur and have Poser run smoothly. To the contrary, import Genesis, the clothing and hair, apply the morph to Genesis and conform the clothes, apply the active morphs and I might as well go to lunch. If I'm lucky, when I get back in an hour or so, it's done. If I'm not, the library has locked up and I have to force quit.
Stability, reliability and being able to maintain workflow is probably the major reason why so many Poser users don't make use of Genesis on a regular basis.
Honestly,
I am an avid Poser user. I really love Poser and also use Daz as well.
But honestly, I really dont know what the problms are with Genesis and Poser.
I look at it this way. Genesis was created by the creaters of Daz, so I use it with Daz.
I have no problems or issues with it. It gives me a chance to use Daz Studio as well, which I love too.
Most of the time I render my Genesis charactrs in Daz and render my backgrounds in Poser.
It all depends how you like your work flow to go and what you like using.
In my case, I use both :)