Studio4: why do I even bother?
LeatherGryphon
Posts: 11,641
I am sooo glad that I made the decision to never, never, never install Studio4 onto my primary machine where my whole previous lifetime of DAZ content and Studio3 scenes are stored. Even so, I've had nothing but problems trying to run Studio4 on a completely separate computer.
I have the luxury of having several extra computers, one of which is a dual core Intel with 4GB RAM and lots of storage running Windows8-Pro. The first time I installed Studio4 on that machine it was completely virgin. No history of DAZ on that machine at all. That was an early version of Studio which of course after a frighteningly short time was obsoleted by a new version. I had been able to make a couple of Studio4 scenes with Genesis characters and almost began to think I might like Studio4. Then I "upgraded" to the new version Studio4.5. Big mistake!
Yes, I understand that Studio4.5 has some differences in how it handles the modeling or rendering of content but my problems arise long before that even becomes an issue. I have not been able to get a copy of Studio4.5 (or now 4.6) to start running the first time.
I remove DAZ Content Manager, DAZ Studio4, and any other removable DAZ software that I have access to via the Windows control panel. Believing incorrectly that that will remove all vestiges of DAZ infections to my computer. So, when I go to install re-install the latest version of Studio4 (now Studio4.6.0.18) as the user "Administrator" (administrative privileges) it somehow remembers that my DAZ library is in my personal (non-privileged user account). So, I change the load path to be within the administrator's file tree and assume all will be OK. Hah!
After installing Studio4.6 it wants my serial number. So I provide the s/n and the splash screen status line changes to "Building Interface" and it's been sitting there for well over an hour now. WTF??? I've tried this several times now. Windows says that DAZ Studio is "not responding". What do I have to do, completely rebuild my computer yet again?
Does Studio4 just have a personal vendetta against me? Or is this a Windows8 problem? Or is Studio4.6 just a piece of c***?
Every once in a while I get curious about Studio4 and pull myself away from my very reliable Studio3 installation and somehow believe that Studio4 will all of a sudden be fixed. Nope, still borked.
Back when I actually had Studio4 working I had to work around issues with permissions and incorrect content installation paths when you install it as a non-privileged user versus installing it as an administratively privileged user. Seems like the programmers at DAZ never really tested that concept.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. DAZ should have a stand-alone utility that you can run on a computer to go through the filesystem and Windows Registry to completely and safely remove any and all references to DAZ Studio. The concept works well for Norton and Adobe products. DAZ really needs to get on the ball about these complex filesystem & registry issues
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Comments
Windows8
:snake:
Is this a documented problem?
Is this a documented problem?
Windows 8 has been known to be a PITA with many of the popular 3D programs. It needs the user to jump through many Hoops to get things to work that the OS in Win7 auto did for you.
I find Win 8 to be somewhat of a PITA in general. Not specifically with 3D programs, though. Your results may vary, on both counts.
I use Windows 8...and Daz doesn't give me any issues.
Did you uninstall you older version of Daz before installing the newer edition?
If not, that's your problem
Is this an admin or a standard account?
I did uninstall my older version.
Having had trouble with non-privileged accounts before, I elected to install Studio4.6 into an administrator privileged account. Still no cigar. :-(
I've given up on the Windows8 dual-core system. However, I have now successfully installed DAZ Studio4.6 on a "Windows7 Home" laptop. It is slow, only has one processor, has a low resolution display and limited storage but at least I know that the DAZ code can work. i.e. I now know that there is a needle in the haystack. 8-o Now I just have to fart around with this laptop to see what I can do about getting a larger monitor an external hard drive, and a few books to read while it lumbers through rendering. Oy! :-(
And "yes", Win8 is a PITA, clumsy, poorly thought out interface. Desktop people should have the option of completely bypassing the finger swipe manipulation tools. (Actually I'm a fan of text based files and command line input subject to "grep", "sed", "vi", and other text based piped filters. And find abacuses pretty cool too!). You had to have brains to use those interfaces. Mouse based interfaces are bad enough but finger swipe interfaces are for the blathering idiots. As evidenced by what people do with them. As the computer power increases exponentially, the amount of useless work performed also increases exponentially, but useful work has stayed level. We now can do the same amount of useful work with 10,000 times faster machines that cost 10,000 times less than their ancestors. But the real advantage now is that every blathering idiot in the world is in the game too. 8-Q
When I had it It came with the shell which gives it a win 7 desktop but I had to go back to 7 on my new machine due to Reality not being compatible. I also quite often ponder ditching DS4 which also would mean ditching Reality since the newer Lux engine has a fixed displacement inversion bug and DS3 is no longer supported by Paolo and go back to LDP2 & UE rendering.. But then I don't LOL
Regarding your new install still seeing libraries from your old install, I don't know what the Win 8 equivalent is, but for Win 7, there are extra files housed in C:\Users\USER\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D that need to be deleted as well (I only deleted Studio4). I had the same issue when I wanted to wipe everything and start fresh. AppData is a hidden folder by default in Win 7, and I can't help you how to enable those for Win 8.
You also may or may not have files in:
C:\Program Files (x86)\DAZ 3D (This I believe is mainly files for DIM)
C:\ProgramData\DAZ 3D
Looks like it's in the same place in Win 8, though (as in Win7) AppData is hidden by default. To unhide it, click on the View tab (on the ribbon of the File Explorer window--I think I got those terms right), and then click the checkbox next to "Hidden Items."
If you don't give a rodents rear for Smart Content you could try un-installing CMS to see if that makes a difference.
FYI...I USE windows 8 on a desktop...and I had it set up to work like a normal computer...no touch screen, no nothing. Works like like the old OSs did in the past
You know why people hate it so much...they are missing the start button. Yes, the START button, but you can by pass that by installing a program called Classic Shell
I getting a new computer with windows 8 Pro next week so don't scare me !!!! :(
I tried Windows8 back in January, for a week... I couldn't wait to get that 'downgrade' off my machine. The real reason Microsoft pushes that garbage on us is because they want to sell Apps to the desktop market, and have everyone pay a commission to them (it's Apple envy). To do that they need a unified interface, which is least common denominator. (ie. can run on a cell phone)
It's a fine interface if you have a tablet, but a desktop is functionally different. I don't want Facebook and Angry Birds on my desktop or an app that tells me where the nearest Starbucks is. I want to use my 2- 24 inch monitors with my full sized mechanical keyboard, and my trackball. I want Aero with translucent windows, beveled edges (so I can tell which is on top,) and popup menus and taskbar windows (to make navigation easy.) I want a beautiful interface that my Nvidia graphics card can muscle through with ease, and custom desktops that 'I' designed (not some deco retread that an overpaid Microsoft designer thinks is cool.)
I DON'T want blobs of pastel colors and whites instead of windows. I don't want charms and start screens getting between me and my programs and control panels. If I had a touch screen I might like the dumbed down automation, but my trackball and keyboard are far more versatile and powerful.
The reason I might seem a little keyed up about this, is I'm getting a new Haswell Laptop tomorrow, and it comes with 8. I have to seriously look at getting an official "downgrade" to 7, and I hope the new BIOS supports it.
The start button is NOT the only reason people don't want Windows 8.
-----
I'm not digging the change to the bios (the previous post got me curious). My motherboard is a UEFI-bios based board (I can use my mouse in the bios, unlike older bios versions); however, Windows 8 seems to want to lock access to the UEFI bios and use the OS as a middle-man, disallowing the use of the good ol' F8 or DEL keys during post? No thank you, I'll pass.
Apparently, if your OS crashes, there's no alternate way to access the bios, either. Bad play there MS.
I saw one user say the OS locked him out from downgrading to Windows 7 and his "$1000 laptop became a $10 paperweight".
I have heard nothing but bad news about Windows 8
it is like when people were almost being forced to adopt Vista when XP was working fine
the best thing about Vista is it made Windows7 look brilliant when I moved on!
I don't have Windows 8 and I have no intention of ever buying it, but through some sort of morbid curiosity (like watching a train wreck), I've read a lot about it online. One user's comment I read really stands out. He or she said something like "How would drivers feel if every 10 years, Ford and GM moved the accelerator, brake and clutch into new positions?"
That seems to be how a lot of people feel about win 8. MS have taken a perfectly good method of working (for desktop users) and changed everything in sight to suit people with touch screen devices. And they're surprised the users don't like it??? That gives some idea of how clueless MS really are. They don't even know what their own customers like. If they'd had any sense at all, they would have released 2 separate systems - one for desktops and one for touch screens.
And maybe it'll come to that in the not too distant, since win 8 is already being blamed for the demise of the pc.
mac
I've been able to partially adapt to Win8 but there are still too many issues for me to ever get comfortable with it. I have Win8 only because I got it for nearly free when it was first introduced and I use it as a testbed in my lab. I fix computers for other people and I have to be able to reproduce customer environments or be able to talk them through operations over the phone. My lab has functioning computers of several eras: Win98, Win2000, WinXP, WinVista, Win7, Win7-Pro, and Win8. However, my Win95 and WinME machines have all bit the dust and been cannibalized or buried :-(
I had too many issues with Windows 8, hence why I'm currently using Windows 7. The upshot is that there are massive compatibility issues with a lot of software, dozens of Windows 7 drivers which are wholly unsupported, with no Win 8 equivalent versions, on top of the interface being a train wreck. Still, Microsoft has a history of launching one rubbish OS right before they make a decent version. So maybe when Windows 9 arrives we'll get all excited again.
New PC getting Built, the one NICE feature? Choice of Win7's or Win8. Guess which I picked.
I've had Windows 8 Pro since it came out and....
While I don't like bashing anything in general, I will say that I have had more problems with Daz as well as everything else than I ever had with Windows 7.
I stick with Windows 8 because I tend to do a lot of tech support apart from Work so I always like to try out the latest and greatest for questions and so forth.
I've been a techie type person for 30 years. The only OS to-date that I've totally gave up on was Vista. After a while I changed back to Windows XP. Windows 7 was a relief. :)
Now I virtualize the OS' from the past. It's great for nostalgia.
Has anyone tried DS or DIM with 8.1? I'm wondering if that will make it tolerable.
I also rolled forward to 7 on my new 32G system
An update on my "progress" trying to use Studio4 on a Windows8 machine.
My primary symptom was that after uninstalling old versions (4.5) of Studio4 and then installing Studio4.6 I would try to start Studio4 but it would get hung up at the state of "building interface".
Hints from replies in this thread and gleaned from the plethora of other threads complaining about Studio4 and the Content [mis]Manager led me to try nuking the manager. Ta-da! As soon as I killed the content manager, the "building interface" state succeeded and Studio completed its start up. However, that leaves me with no "Smart Content". Which, fortunately, is not a biggie because I've not been impressed with its definition of "smart".
Finally though I did succeed in getting the whole ball of wax to work. The thread that actually gave me the most hope of final complete success was this one:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25351/#373781
After performing those steps I have apparently succeeded in rebuilding my content database indices and I've been able to run Studio4 with the Content Manager enabled. (yea!) I'm reinstalling some of my model library from scratch onto this Windows8 machine. So now that I have the Content Manager running I'll have to re-categorized my models into the customized structure I've become used to. (*sigh, more busy work*)
However, all this being said, I am still greatly disappointed with how Studio4 behaves on this Windows8 machine. This used to be a Windows7 machine that ran Studio3 very nicely thank you! All my Studio3 work is now on my new computer (Win7) and I've "upgraded" (an oxymoron if ever I heard one) this older computer to Win8. Studio4 on this Win8 machine runs like a lame snail. (*bummer*) :-(
You might have a variation on whatever's gone weird with my system — I've never been able to use the CMS, in WinXP or Win7, because if I leave it installed (just disabling it wasn't enough) then D|S won't start. I don't miss it, I've never wanted or needed any of the "smart" functions, so I've never bothered to file a bug report. I'm just uneasy with the number of D|S functions gradually becoming dependent on the CMS, like Autofit or content search. What next?
Yeah, I've always questioned the wisdom of building a foundation after the edifice is erected. 8-o
Hmmm..., I've been running the 64-bit version of Studio4 and it runs like a lame snail. However, I have been able to complete a scene with two genesis characters in it and save it. Every time I load it into Studio4 it takes like 6 minutes.
HOWEVER, I just tried running the 32-bit version of Studio4 and that same scene loads in about a minute. WTF?
I wonder if it's my graphics card? I don't have a better one to substitute though. I have an NVidia GeForce GT430 in a PCI-Ex16 card slot.
System has a Pentium dual-core processor and 4GB RAM. System originally ran Vista then I upgraded it to an OEM version of Windows7 Home when the motherboard had to be replaced. Then I "upgraded" it to Windows8-Pro.
System originally was an HP Pavilion desktop but the motherboard died. Luckily though, the memory and CPU were OK so I replaced the bad motherboard with an MSI brand motherboard that had the same CPU socket and memory slot configuration.
The only thing a GPU has to do with DAZ Studio is the Viewport unless your using OpenGL render settings. The info given in the GPU info only applies to what can be shown in the Viewport and rendered in OpenGL.
Win8 is a Larger OS thus is using more of your 4Gb of RAM, when you Load the 64bit version of DS it also is larger, thus eating more of your free Ram. The load time of 4mins is probably your system using VRAM (Disk swap space) to store files as the OS hit's ram limits. The DS 32bit uses just a bit less ram and Sees only 2Gb ram, unless set to large aware, and automatically saves to VRAM as it knows at load time it needs to use swap space.
This Is a guess but I think it's pretty close to what you are seeing, I'm not pulling RAM to test it and see for sure.