Legal question about using the figures to generate Normal maps

dark_shneiderit

I am really curious to know what is the general consensus about using DAZ figures to make normal maps.

Technically you are just using a render of an image, so the EULA is not broken....this means that I can use the high poly DAZ figures as Hi res mesh, create the normal maps for a low poly figure and you end up with a decent low poly mesh without having to sculpt.

I was going trough the EULA and can't see anything that explicitly prohibit the creation of normal maps from clothes and meshes.

Did anyone tried this approach?

WendyLuvsCatz

I think it would depend what you were using it for
a texture mapped to a plane is a render of an image too
if you are using the mesh in anyway to create a new mesh for redistribution as geometry it is questionable

dark_shneiderit

Well, to make a normal map all that you need is to get for example V4, put her in T pose and render various shots with various light settings; then change the alpha channels in photoshop, and load them as normal maps in 3dcoat (just to mention one software), and bake them on the low res mesh.

Technically all that I did was to bake normals from a picture, and the EULA is fine with using renders and images of the models....that's why I am a bit confused.

In fact I would not be using any geometry, I would not use textures, so everything sounds legit.

It takes a millions of issues off, compared to taking V4, do the poly decimation and so on, and the results would be 10X better in a 10th of the time.

Probably when they came up with the EULA, they would not imagine that in 2012 we can actually use normal mapping to increase details, otherwise I think that they would have thought about this.

adzan

What will the end figure be used for?

Under the general EULA that comes with the daz figures -
You can use the normal maps for rendering still images but
You cannot use the normal maps generated from Victoria in a game as that is still a derivative of V4 > unless you buy the Daz Game license, then you can use the low polygon figures and mats covered by that license.

But - to get an official legal response - you would need to contact Daz and explain how you where going to use the normal maps and ask if that was covered by the EULA

Richard Haseltine

I'm pretty sure people have asked for and been refused permission to use displacement maps generated from DAZ or PA mesh as part of an item texture. It would amount to creating a derivative item that gives a user a benefit of the original without their owning it. However, as said for a definitive answer you would need to open a support ticket for the copyright department, with a bit more detail about what you were wanting to do.

dark_shneiderit

adzan said:

What will the end figure be used for?

Under the general EULA that comes with the daz figures -
You can use the normal maps for rendering still images but
You cannot use the normal maps generated from Victoria in a game as that is still a derivative of V4 > unless you buy the Daz Game license, then you can use the low polygon figures and mats covered by that license.

But - to get an official legal response - you would need to contact Daz and explain how you where going to use the normal maps and ask if that was covered by the EULA

Well, if you get normal maps usually it is for real time animations or games, that's the main use for normal maps....use a low poly mesh with a normal that gives details from a high poly mesh to make it look good. Otherwise If it is for a regular non interactive animation you can just use the figures as they are.

It is the same as getting pictures online, where you pay them and then create textures out of them...in that case you may consider that derivative, since you modify the source (the picture) to make a texture.

In this case I "take the picture" of a model, and that can be used in any way I like, as per EULA (since in legal terms that would be the rendered picture), so it cannot be considered derivative since the model and the textures are not touched, modified or copied.

I think that it would take a pretty good lawyer to demonstrate that a picture of a 3d model is considered a derivative work.....otherwise what about all these people that get pictures of people and make 3d models out of them (imagine poser face room, just to mention one)? Except that you need the authorization of the person depicted to use it, you can use it as starting point to create your model, and there would be no legal implication.

Not saying that I am right, so please don't take this as arguing....just pointing out that in the EULA there should be a straight sentence that says that the renderer images cannot be used to create normal maps, because as is there is nothing that tells that you cannot do that.

I understand how the game license works, but at that point there is no need to use the picture that you render, when you can just take the original model, do a retopology and use the textures to get the low poly version....It is a slightly different concept that involves touching the original model and textures (btw retopology and re-sell is something pretty common...I would worry more about that instead than having people using a model to make normal maps, since there is no way to demonstrate that a DAZ model was used as a base for a retopology)

Thanks for your reply, I will also check with the legal team...was hoping that someone from the DAZ team would read this and give an official word on the subject :)

dark_shneiderit

Richard Haseltine said:

I'm pretty sure people have asked for and been refused permission to use displacement maps generated from DAZ or PA mesh as part of an item texture. It would amount to creating a derivative item that gives a user a benefit of the original without their owning it. However, as said for a definitive answer you would need to open a support ticket for the copyright department, with a bit more detail about what you were wanting to do.

Thanks Richard, I haven't noticed any post here with the same question, that's why I started this thread.

So they asked and it was refused, even if the EULA don't mention anything about the subject, and a rendered image cannot be considered a derivative?

I will double check with the legal department, thanks!

smithhondas_5f5e5bbc1d

Hi, with all of the changes and updates to the daz eula, i am curious.

I have created a daz studio scene that allows for easy rendering of the images of any model either daz or poser character and clothing with or without weapon.

With this scene you can easily create full eight direction animation for use within 2d game creation software and also unity.

You do not even need to pose and animate, you can of course.

You can use the free ani-blocks available to animate your figure or use maximo or most .bvh files.

You do not want to use all of the animation within the game engine no problem I found a way that supports ani-blocks and also .bvh files.

Example: Traditionally an animated ani-block or .bvh walk cycle is 30 frames of animation by employing my techniques the frames are effectively halved.

Is this within the tearms of the new eula ?

WendyLuvsCatz

if you are only using renders in your game, you do not need any special licenses at all
only if mesh is used in a game it matters and needs licensing.
the admins will confirm this.

Richard Haseltine

Yes, rendered images and animations are fine.

hljzzl1972

I have the same problem about 2d game using graphic rendered by Daz studio,I have bought many products through content market. The answer given by the admins means that I can use the renders as figure or background,no mater the vender is Daz original or not. In short,using daz studio to develop 2d game does not need a game license.please cnofirm it.

Jaderail

Renders and Animations ARE free to use in any game. Is covered and free to use any item as long as the ITEM does not have a DISCLAIMER in it's read me.