Centaur for Genesis?
Faewolf
Posts: 0
I was wondering if there was any interest for/a PA working on a centaur for Genesis figure? I remember there was a discussion thread about such a figure on the old forums but I haven't seen one on the new (at least still new to me lol) one yet.
From what I understand, the horse part of the centaur figure would have to be created completely from scratch so that it will match to the polygons on Genesis. DAZ Horse 2 unfortunately could not be used since the neck mesh wouldn't line up.
We do have the option of frankensteining a centaur figure, i.e. parenting Genesis to the Horse but that too has its limitations.
Is there anyone still willing to take on this challenge?
Edit: Why a completely new model must be created and a "belt" or double grafts (one extending from horse neck and one from human waist) to join to a currently existing figure would not work from here http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/11226/P15
"For the GeoGraft to work there must be matching topology
So that means some part of the horse has to have the same set of vertex co-ordinance as genesis.
there is nowhere on either one that is remotely close, even if I made a morph on genesis to fit the horse
there’s no matching poly loop to do it with.
The only way around that is a double graft and I don’t think that is possible.
It would be a bridging piece between both models and since two different model can’t own the same
Bone then it’s not possible." --midnight_stories
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Comments
Thing if I have remember what I have been told correctly, Because of Auto fit the only way to get a centaur is to construct and rig the entire horse portion of the centaur. You can't use the millennium horse anymore.
RawArt has a centaur for sale in his store http://www.daz3d.com/raw-sagytarios-black-and-white
Thanx frank...but that is really just an expansion pack for this one:
http://www.daz3d.com/shades-of-atlantis-sagytarios
thanks but as Rawart posted, that Centaur is a full original figure, not a Genesis one. While I do love the Centaur he created, I've been looking for one that I can use all my current Genesis characters with.
exactly the same way it works on any Genesis character :)
The top /human half would be able to use all of the Genesis clothing while the bottom half would use horse accessories. Think of the amazing Gorgons for Genesis here: http://www.daz3d.com/the-gorgon You wouldn't try and put pants on them right? lol
I'd love to see a proper Centaur. Since DH2 is also built on the same tech, it could be built at two geografts. Once for the lower part of Genesis, and the other to lop off the head and narrow the neck on DH2. Then parent Genesis to DH2 so the geografts line up. Then you have the flexibility of using Genesis items for the humanoid part, and DH2 items for the horse part (though no self-respecting Centaur would ever let you put a saddle on them...)
FWIW, I recently made my own Centaur bashing G2F and DH2 together. A lot of each figure was hidden using the PGE, and then a couple D-Formers were used to narrow up the neck of DH2, though it has issues. I enabled smoothing an collision on DH2 and set it to collide with G2F to get the neck to 'shrinkwrap' itself around the lower part of G2F. There is no blend area, though, though I hid a lot of the border between the two figures with a belt. It's 'acceptable' to me, but not great. I would much prefer a proper set of geografts, as that would give much better results. My centaur is here: Forest Guardian (NSFW)
she looks great cwichura! you can get some pretty good results with bashing them together but as you describe its alot of work and half the time the blend area needs to be hidden or edited alot in postwork.
I like the idea of a greografted item to connect the Horse2 and Genesis but again we run into the problem of combining the textures. Also any human abdomen morphs wouldn't translate to the horse area since both figures are merely parented. like I'd love to make a pudgy little centaur lol XD
There's a revival of the old forum's centaur thread here, by the way, with a link to hemi426's centaur kit for Genesis. Note that this uses Horse 1. Hemi was considering doing the same for Horse 2, but I believe hasn't had the time.
I used this to make the centaur attached, although I edited Adam's trans map a little to make it more to my liking and made a few additional custom morphs.
There's also a interesting discussion about creating a centaur with Geo-Grafts here.
There seems to have been so many inconclusive attempts at making a Genesis-based centaur that I'm doubting that there will ever be one.
Yeah, I love and have used Hemi's morph but it too has its limits being a kit bash.
thanks for the link to the thread! it looks like midnight stories actually started on a centaur but as we havent heard anything since then it may have been abandoned :(
I think we can all agree now (unlike on the old thread) that the only way to create a Genesis Centaur would be to have a new horse body modeled and rigged completely from scratch so as to match Genesis. No more trying/hypothesizing the belt idea to connect to Horse2 as we know that a belt could not be geografted on both sides. I think part of the problem before was that geografting wasnt very known back then and after seeing some of the amazing things created with it since then I hope a PA would feel more comfortable tacking it.
I am sure if such a figure was to be created that more PAs would add expansions such as morphs and textures to make the Centaur has versatile as Horse 2 is. For example, I'm thinking it wouldnt be too hard to make a clone to autofit Milhorse items to fit the Centaur horse body just like they did for Milhorse --> Horse 2. But these little details are only applicable if the base item is created first ofcourse xD and even if its not possible, all new accessories can always be made.
I've done quite a few centaur renders using Genesis and Mil Horse. Seems to work quite well with some minor tweaking. For close ups I modify Genesis texture maps to get a better blend then do some minor touch ups at the seam in post. Works okay this way with Genesis Clothing and mil-horse poses. Would love to see a render perfect version of a centaur though. :)
I vote for a Geo-Grafted version just like the new Octo legs. Note: Made just for Genesis and GF2.
+1 would love to see one actually
+ 1
Wonder if there's a way to geograft a connection. Like, geograft a loop to Genesis' torso, then geograft a loop to the Horse's body and then weld the 2 loops together so the top half connects to Gen and the bottom connect to the horse. That way it's not a completely separate horse body that will never get any mats or props.
unfortunately thats not possible due to how geografting works. quoting midnight_stories from another thread
"For the GeoGraft to work there must be matching topology
So that means some part of the horse has to have the same set of vertex co-ordinance as genesis.
there is nowhere on either one that is remotely close, even if I made a morph on genesis to fit the horse
there’s no matching poly loop to do it with.
The only way around that is a double graft and I don’t think that is possible.
It would be a bridging piece between both models and since two different model can’t own the same
Bone them it’s not possible."
I'll add this to the first post too so we can have all relevant info located in one place and people wont have to read every post ^^
+1!
so thats 4 votes for a new horse body! lol
now we just need a PA to make iiiit! *side eyes creature creator PAs* ;-P
unfortunately thats not possible due to how geografting works. quoting midnight_stories from another thread
"For the GeoGraft to work there must be matching topology
So that means some part of the horse has to have the same set of vertex co-ordinance as genesis.
there is nowhere on either one that is remotely close, even if I made a morph on genesis to fit the horse
there’s no matching poly loop to do it with.
The only way around that is a double graft and I don’t think that is possible.
It would be a bridging piece between both models and since two different model can’t own the same
Bone them it’s not possible."
I'll add this to the first post too so we can have all relevant info located in one place and people wont have to read every post ^^
Ah thanks. I guess mine would be what he calls a double graft. Poo. And here I thought I was on to something. LOL
Ah thanks. I guess mine would be what he calls a double graft. Poo. And here I thought I was on to something. LOL
lol! I know! the whole belt idea and double grafting sounds like they should work and make things easier on us but then the actual mechanics dont support them XP
Thinking on it a second time, it also wouldn't work material wise. You'd end up with 2 bands in the waist that end up untextured.
yeah that would be a problem ><</p>
times like this i really wish i could model lol
I've said that to myself plenty of times. lol
I was just thinking....and this is probably not a viable idea but...I wonder about commissioning a PA to make a Genesis Centaur figure?
Like I wonder how much it would be to commission a figure on the condition that the PA can sell it in their store after its creation? Like I understand if it had an exclusivity contract it would rightly be a huge price (it would be a lot of work for one time payment) but what about a non-exclusive one?
I'm sure the start-up price alone could still be expensive as there is no guarantee how well any figure will sell and since that is a big burden to place on one person what if multiple people donated/put money towards the figure?
i.e. - (and I'm sure this pricing is way off base) Say a PA requested a $300 to create the centaur figure. People could donate towards that amount and say if the donation was $25 or more they would get a copy of the completed figure. So like $25 guaranteed you a figure - oh! kinda like a Kickstarter project!!
like a PA could create a Kickstarter page and have people donate. Multiple tiers mean more accessories or extra textures as bonuses? So that early backers get a little bonus for supporting the figure. And then individual accessory and texture sets can be sold in store afterwards.
What do you all think?
I'd almost forgotten about this guy, I think the thing that stopped me was all the textures that would have to be done, then there's the nasty business of doing the morphs that would be a huge job in itself non-standard bones don't move with genesis morphs bottom line.
I know I would be happy for even one texture only for both Horse and human half if it means it would be created! ;) extra textures/morphs can always be created by 3rd parties ^^
Also about the non-standard bones not following Genesis morphs - all the figure would really need is to have the neck bones of the horse to be renamed abdomen or something right? Since that is really the only area we are concerned with being morphed together with the upperbody. Like in my chubby centaur example - the morph to make Genesis chubby would also work in the transition are making where they connect also chubby. The rest of the horse can be turned chubby using another morph. This is the current problem with kit bashing centaurs right now - we can morph both horse and human half to our liking but the where the human abdomen turns into horse we have no way to smoothly transition.
Like I'm looking at the Gorgon figure and the gorgon tail bones are listed as Hip with child bones -Pelvis-Abdomen and then Serpent1 with child bones Serpent 2,3, 4, etc. Even though it has non-standard morphs the concerned area, the abdomen, still transitions nicely. If i turn up the chubby dial on Genesis the top part of the snake body also morphs and the rest of the body is left alone.
I think that same system would work fine for the Centaur figure and even wanted actually since both horse and human half could be customized how we want. Can it be done that way?
reading back - taking on this figure may be more work than what you were looking to do which is totally understandable. I know I would not want to work on a figure I didn't want. Is this an official - not working on it anymore?
any other PAs feel like chiming in? if not to do them project then to give their point of view on how it may be done?
also what do y'all think of the kickstarter idea?
You guys can keep your centaur for Genesis. I'm perfectly happy with my centaur for Derrick.
It's so photo realistic, you'd swear they actual exist.