Crushing Creativity....Here's what happens to me

whispers65

So I wrote a couple of novels a while back (not saying they are good) and decided to rewrite them and the idea occurred to me to do like a comic book at the same time with 3d renders.

So I'm off this weekend and decided why not put in a dvd series in to watch while I'm working on this new incredible idea. (it helps to be distracted).

So I need to characters to match my novel or redo the characters to match the characters I have or can buy. I browse and buy some. No problem. They spark my creativity and give me some different ideas.

So the first couple of scenes take place in a house. Fine, I have that (several actually) It doesn't match what is in my brain but I've learned enough by now that I can mix and match and rework stuff that I've bought. Kind of like Legos. I just take the pieces and re-arrange and can come up with something I can live with.

So far so good.

So the next scene is the main character walking outside and looks at the neighborhood. It's snowing. Well here comes a problem. Yeah, I've found a neighborhood that will work actually quite nicely (city block 13 at rendo). There's a rain option but no snow. Now I'm wondering how possible it is to transform the neighborhood into snowville. It's low poly and probably I wouldn't have the ability to turn on and off a lot of the props and stuff. I don't know I haven't bought it yet. This is all proof in concept at this point.

So to make it look wintery I assume I would need to find a way to:

1) Transform the ground to snow. If I can change the texture I could change it from grass to snowy. If not, I assume I can create a plane and put down and make that snowy.
2) Bushes and Trees - Hmmmm...find replacements that have snow on them?
3) Roads look slick or icy - It comes with a rain option so that works. probably wouldn't have to change anything.
4) houses - hmmmm...I seen something where there are props for snow accumulation on windows and icicles.
5) Falling snow - ok I can buy a product for that.
6) How to show the difference between a little snow versus a lot of snow fallen, don't know. You know, the whole accumulation over time thing.

And this is just for one scene (a lot of the other scenes I have stuff for)

So

1) spending $$$ I get an A+ (doing more than my fair share to keep the 3d market economy going)
2) Imagination and Creativity I'm giving myself an A+
3) Implementing what I see in my mind and getting it out a D-

So then I get to the point of wow I'm spending so much time, effort, and $$$ and still don't know if I can pull off something that looks passable. Why bother? Why not just throw in a video game and veg out?

But then again, I'm always wanting to create something so I redouble my efforts and try to find a way.

Anyone else feel my pain or is it just me being mental? LOL

Fragg1960

You're going to have a tough time with this project if you don't use a graphics editor to help you.

If you look through any comic/graphic novel--every scene does not show every detail like when people try to do this in 3D. In your neighborhood example, you could render your walking figure, light the scene, then post-work in a few dark silhouettes of houses in the background to suggest the neighborhood setting. Then you could overlay some snow drifts (white dots on a separate layer with a bit of motion blur). Doing it the way you are doing it--looking for every single thing you need in every scene (even if you are creative with what you have) will lead you to frustration (and some fairly high 3D content charges on your credits cards).

My suggestion is to invest some time learning a graphics editor (like Photoshop, but there are other cheaper ones that will do just fine). You may also re-write some of your scenes to reduce the burden of the props you need (movie writers do this all the time to stay on budget).

Skiriki

There's a snow shader in store that would be useful in this.

whispers65

Fragg1960 said:

You're going to have a tough time with this project if you don't use a graphics editor to help you.

If you look through any comic/graphic novel--every scene does not show every detail like when people try to do this in 3D. In your neighborhood example, you could render your walking figure, light the scene, then post-work in a few dark silhouettes of houses in the background to suggest the neighborhood setting. Then you could overlay some snow drifts (white dots on a separate layer with a bit of motion blur). Doing it the way you are doing it--looking for every single thing you need in every scene (even if you are creative with what you have) will lead you to frustration (and some fairly high 3D content charges on your credits cards).

My suggestion is to invest some time learning a graphics editor (like Photoshop, but there are other cheaper ones that will do just fine). You may also re-write some of your scenes to reduce the burden of the props you need (movie writers do this all the time to stay on budget).

Thanks for your reply! I know I do tend to be obsessive about everything and want to do every minute detail. Your approach sounds sensible. I didn't put a lot of stock into post work because I've never done it. I'm not all that artistic. I just like to do art type stuff lol. I do have Photoshop. It is an older CS4 version. I've contemplating the newer version. I see where I can "rent" the newer version for like $10 a month just for that one app. Probably more expensive in the long run but cheaper on the budget now.

I also saw all of the Ron's brushes especially like snow and stuff like that. Seeing them is one thing, being able to use them artistically is something else.

I guess with everything else I want to do I need to add something like Photoshop. I just haven't done post work before because it felt almost like cheating or I wasn't good enough at 3d stuff to do what I want. (I am learning how to do modeling so learning Photoshop better surely wouldn't hurt when it comes to texturing.)

Thanks for your time.

whispers65

Skiriki said:

There's a snow shader in store that would be useful in this.

Hi....thanks. I did see the shader in the store but it didn't quite jump out and grab me if that makes sense and it may have been nothing more than the promo images I saw but thanks for the suggestion.

icprncss

There is the Let it Snow script that allows you to control the amount of snow applied to any given prop or figure.

The Victorian house sold here at DAZ has a winter texture that you can buy.

RDNA has their Country Christmas series. Both the textures and the building sets are both in their Deep Freeze category (no pun intended they're just permanently discounted IIRC).

You also might was to check out Dreamland's model over at Rendo. They aren't cheap but the detail and content more that make up for the price.

whispers65

icprncss said:

There is the Let it Snow script that allows you to control the amount of snow applied to any given prop or figure.

The Victorian house sold here at DAZ has a winter texture that you can buy.

RDNA has their Country Christmas series. Both the textures and the building sets are both in their Deep Freeze category (no pun intended they're just permanently discounted IIRC).

You also might was to check out Dreamland's model over at Rendo. They aren't cheap but the detail and content more that make up for the price.

ok I relooked at the shader in the store. I guess the first time I just did a passing glance. I do have my eye on the Dreamland City Block 13. I haven't purchased yet but it would do nice for several things I want to do. Thanks for the suggestions.

mrposer

You could make it an illustrated novel versus a comic book and only have as many illustrations (maybe 1 per chapter) as you can handle. Also if you are like me and still learning photoshop with Ron's brushes etc. just make sure you create a new layer before you start... then if you mess up beyond fixing you can just delete the layer and start over. Good luck!!

Fragg1960

whispers65 said:

I just haven't done post work before because it felt almost like cheating or I wasn't good enough at 3d stuff to do what I want. (I am learning how to do modeling so learning Photoshop better surely wouldn't hurt when it comes to texturing.)

It's funny because I spend a lot of time on both digital art forums and 3D forums, and many digital artists consider using 3D as reference to be cheating, and the 3D artists consider using digital post-work as cheating. They're both wrong by the way--no one says you can't use all the tools in the toolbox to produce what you want. Many professional digital artist use 3D as a base for painting (Google Sketchup, DAZ, Poser) and produce wonderful output, and many professional 3D artists use post-work graphics software to the same result. People who think otherwise are just artificially hand-cuffing their creativity.

There is no such thing as cheating--the only thing that matters is not copying anyone's work and getting to the end result in your mind's eye.

tsarist

YOu've been given some good advice.

You also might want to use DOF. This will decrease the need to have as much detail in the background.

FirstBastion

There are solutions for your situation.

Snow Machine script for Poser will give you snow where you would expect it to be right over top of the existing textures of any environment.

Let it Snow shader for DAZ Studio will offer the same functionality for that program.

The examples below are two of my environment sets using both these exceptional shaders/scripts.

High Cliff Crossing gets a snow job with the Let it Snow Shader.

The Neighbour's Yard has the snow fall using Snow Machine (images from Dani Foster Herring posted to the Yard thread in the archives)

whispers65

MrPoser said:

You could make it an illustrated novel versus a comic book and only have as many illustrations (maybe 1 per chapter) as you can handle. Also if you are like me and still learning photoshop with Ron's brushes etc. just make sure you create a new layer before you start... then if you mess up beyond fixing you can just delete the layer and start over. Good luck!!

Yeah I really need to just get a brush set, prob either the rain one or the snow. I like both. And then do some tutorials on photoshop brushes and just give it a go. I do some minor stuff in Paint.net or Photoshop but it's very minor.

whispers65

Fragg1960 said:

whispers65 said:

I just haven't done post work before because it felt almost like cheating or I wasn't good enough at 3d stuff to do what I want. (I am learning how to do modeling so learning Photoshop better surely wouldn't hurt when it comes to texturing.)

It's funny because I spend a lot of time on both digital art forums and 3D forums, and many digital artists consider using 3D as reference to be cheating, and the 3D artists consider using digital post-work as cheating. They're both wrong by the way--no one says you can't use all the tools in the toolbox to produce what you want. Many professional digital artist use 3D as a base for painting (Google Sketchup, DAZ, Poser) and produce wonderful output, and many professional 3D artists use post-work graphics software to the same result. People who think otherwise are just artificially hand-cuffing their creativity.

There is no such thing as cheating--the only thing that matters is not copying anyone's work and getting to the end result in your mind's eye.

Point well take. I use 3d because I'm not an artist. I just don't have talent in those areas but I have a lot of respect for those who can create that way. Me, I can take what others produce and come up with stuff but that's about it at least so far.

whispers65

FirstBastion said:

There are solutions for your situation.

Snow Machine script for Poser will give you snow where you would expect it to be right over top of the existing textures of any environment.

Let it Snow shader for DAZ Studio will offer the same functionality for that program.

The examples below are two of my environment sets using both these exceptional shaders/scripts.

High Cliff Crossing gets a snow job with the Let it Snow Shader.

The Neighbour's Yard has the snow fall using Snow Machine (images from Dani Foster Herring posted to the Yard thread in the archives)

I have Poser but don't know that much about it yet. I'm working with some training vids to get up to speed. I'll keep the Snow Machine script in mine. I really like the way those turned out.

I did go ahead and buy the Let It Snow shader so have been experimenting a little bit this morning to see how it works.

It's funny that you showed the Neighbor's Yard pics. That is one of my favorite sets. And when I was searching this morning on snow and neighborhoods, it did come up. Weird thing is that ANY post that says Forum Archive will not come up on my Internet Explorer. However, they will show under Google Chrome. I did view some of the old forums but only two pictures came up for me so I'm glad you posted these. I really wanted to see what others were able to do with the Neighbor's Yard. I really like these.

whispers65

tsarist said:

YOu've been given some good advice.

You also might want to use DOF. This will decrease the need to have as much detail in the background.

I haven't used that at all. I have worked with Focal Length a little bit more now. Funny this morning I saw a tutorial about DOF. Some of the pics I see show blurring in the background with the foreground sharp and clear. That's done with DOF right? I've always wondered but never got around into checking it out. Thanks.

LycanthropeX

ok where can i get this snow machine???

FirstBastion

LycanthropeX said:

ok where can i get this snow machine???

jmper posted the link a while back in the HighCliff Crossing thread: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/13573/P15
It's a snarlygribbly python script: http://snarlygribbly.org/3d/forum/

jorge dorlando

LycanthropeX said:

ok where can i get this snow machine???

Here DreamlandModels said:
"Snarlygribbly was kind enough to allow me to include his Snow Machine in the Python folder
Snow machine for all your winter needs"
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/movie-sets-81-city-blocks/95693

jorge dorlando

Here also:
http://snarlygribbly.org/3d/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15&sid=b4c5d07f372264eccdf9ddaaaeaa9e50

LycanthropeX

ty ty ty i found it after i asked lol

jorge dorlando

whispers65 said:

So I wrote a couple of novels a while back (not saying they are good) and decided to rewrite them and the idea occurred to me to do like a comic book at the same time with 3d renders.

So I'm off this weekend and decided why not put in a dvd series in to watch while I'm working on this new incredible idea. (it helps to be distracted).

So I need to characters to match my novel or redo the characters to match the characters I have or can buy. I browse and buy some. No problem. They spark my creativity and give me some different ideas.

So the first couple of scenes take place in a house. Fine, I have that (several actually) It doesn't match what is in my brain but I've learned enough by now that I can mix and match and rework stuff that I've bought. Kind of like Legos. I just take the pieces and re-arrange and can come up with something I can live with.

So far so good.

So the next scene is the main character walking outside and looks at the neighborhood. It's snowing. Well here comes a problem. Yeah, I've found a neighborhood that will work actually quite nicely (city block 13 at rendo). There's a rain option but no snow. Now I'm wondering how possible it is to transform the neighborhood into snowville. It's low poly and probably I wouldn't have the ability to turn on and off a lot of the props and stuff. I don't know I haven't bought it yet. This is all proof in concept at this point.

So to make it look wintery I assume I would need to find a way to:

1) Transform the ground to snow. If I can change the texture I could change it from grass to snowy. If not, I assume I can create a plane and put down and make that snowy.
2) Bushes and Trees - Hmmmm...find replacements that have snow on them?
3) Roads look slick or icy - It comes with a rain option so that works. probably wouldn't have to change anything.
4) houses - hmmmm...I seen something where there are props for snow accumulation on windows and icicles.
5) Falling snow - ok I can buy a product for that.
6) How to show the difference between a little snow versus a lot of snow fallen, don't know. You know, the whole accumulation over time thing.

And this is just for one scene (a lot of the other scenes I have stuff for)

So

1) spending $$$ I get an A+ (doing more than my fair share to keep the 3d market economy going)
2) Imagination and Creativity I'm giving myself an A+
3) Implementing what I see in my mind and getting it out a D-

So then I get to the point of wow I'm spending so much time, effort, and $$$ and still don't know if I can pull off something that looks passable. Why bother? Why not just throw in a video game and veg out?

But then again, I'm always wanting to create something so I redouble my efforts and try to find a way.

Anyone else feel my pain or is it just me being mental? LOL

You say: "Point well take. 3d I use because I'm not an artist."
No, you're wrong! Because you're an artist!!
Proof of this is what you say at the beginning of your topic:
"" "So then I get to the point of wow I'm spending so much team effort, and $ $ $ and still do not know if I can pull off something that looks passable. Why bother? Why not just throw in a video game and veg out times?

But then again, I'm always wanting to create something so I redouble my efforts and try to find a way.

Anyone else feel my pain or is it just me being mental? LOL "" "...
Their effort shows that you have the soul of an artist, and she is, (soul) that bothers you all the time, because there is an art, your soul has art, but you are not getting express it, and she will not shut up until you express it in the picture ... So you can not rest until you can express the whole scene, which is in the soul.
If you were not an artist, you would not be bothered with the cutscenes, just going to put some items in the scene, then render without a critique own and take this for completed ... a scene would be dead, soulless, only things placed here and there randomly and rendered, or drawn, or painted.
The artist is always an insecure person (not with things of life, but with his art), will always think that his art is not good enough ... This is the dilemma of all artists ...
And also ... on the other hand, not enough to have talent, need technique (tutorials / courses). "'It is said that the eyes are the window to the soul ..." The technique enables your eyes and hands to make possible what is in the soul....

Penname

Very well said, Jorge. And whispers65, I think a lot of us know what you go through. But it doesn't matter what medium you use, there is almost always something that needs a little research. Often I find that I have an image in my mind, but by the time I gather the characters and the props, and shop for what's missing (I shop the freebies first - lol), and realize that terrain or building isn't quite what I had in mind. . . I can get quite frustrated. There are so many wonderful tools in 3D, it takes a while for the vision and the technique to all come together.

whispers65

Jorge - Point really well taken this time lol. It's 4am and I'm ready to try some things. Thanks for your reply and for putting things into perspective. I've never said I see things clearly or that I'm not mental lol. I have my own peculiar quirks I deal with and the wrong thinking gets the better of me sometimes so seeing things from a different perspective helps.

Penname - I do try freebies. I just can't always find what I'm looking for. Last night I worked on portraits for a dossier for each character in my "cast". That was fun. I'll see what today brings. Thanks for your input!