September 2018 - Daz 3D New User Challenge - Depth of Field
Scott Livingston
Posts: 4,341
Are you new to the 3D World? Are you at the beginning stages of learning 3D rendering? Have you been around for a little bit but feel you could benefit from some feedback or instruction? Have you been around awhile and would like to help other members start their creative journey? Well then come and join the fun as we host our newest challenge...
"Focus/Depth of Field"
This month's focus will be on Depth of Field/Focus.
Depth of Field is basically controlling what part of the image is in sharp focus. A couple of explanations, from the world of photography (so not everything is applicable, but the definitions and basics do apply when rendering).
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.htm
http://digital-photography-school.com/understanding-depth-field-beginners/
Also, keep in mind all the various items covered over the past several months, because things like Portraits can greatly benefit from applying DoF.
So far this year we have covered the following topics:
Inspiration:
Tips and Examples:
Studio:
http://flipmode3d.com/depth-of-field-daz-studio/
http://www.versluis.com/2015/04/how-to-render-with-depth-of-field-in-daz-studio/
http://www.sharecg.com/v/52258/browse/3/PDF-Tutorial/DAZ-Studio-Tutorial-Depth-of-Field
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/19195/daz-depth-of-field-settings-a-general-starting-point
Poser:
http://www.keindesign.de/stefan/poser/dof_p5.html
http://www.trekkiegrrrl.dk/DOFtut1.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNTpR_qiA1Y
Bryce:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3855/
Carrara:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gliniNqq8_k
Useful Tools:
Poser: DoF Script http://www.sharecg.com/v/85624/browse/8/Script/Easy-DoF-for-poser
Other Helpful Links:
When following tutorials, be cognizant of the different applications (Bryce, Daz Studio, Poser, Carrara Blender, etc.) and different render engines (3Delight, Iray, Reality, etc). Techniques for one may not apply directly to another. If you have some favorite portrait lighting and composition tips, please share them in this WIP thread.
Composition Golden Ratio helpers:
Bryce
DAZ Studio (Also, DS has a built in Rule of Thirds guide; just select Show Thirds Guide in the Viewport context menu)
Don't forget to look at previous themed contests where information and hints are available. Here is the depth of field challenge from last September.
For a list of the current contest rules, please see this thread : Challenge Rules.
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Comments
Hey folks! This is my first time at a New User challenge. I've been casually experimenting for about 3 months with DAZ studio now. I feel like I'm starting to get the hang of it, but I still have so much to learn!
Attached is my first render using Depth of Field. Curious to hear everybody's constructive thoughts, also regarding other aspects of the picture.
Created with DAZ Studio, minimal postwork in Photoshop
Skyscraper textures found here: https://www.outworldz.com/cgi/free-seamless-textures.plx?c=Texture set skyscrapers
Here are the things I would change (I'm not that experienced, so some of these might be more indicative of my biases rather than proper improvements.):
Other than that, I like!
Never mind, the stupid picture won't upload properly.
Here's my start for this month, no shadowrunners yet just where the run has taken them this time. Would have posted sooner, but when I got up the other day I had a short time before I had to be heading out for work and all that. Plan to spend the afternoon with a friend of mine hanging out so I will be having to mess with this more after I get back from that.
Anyway, have a safe and happy Laber Day today.
@rcbcgreenpanzer: Thanks for the feedback! I'm actually aware that the pose is a cliché and somewhat problematic. I went for it anyway, because... I wanted to? I don't have a great justification here. *:)
Will look at the other aspects you point out. Didn't know the "Crush Blacks" setting, excited to give it a try!
I know I said that I'd try to get back to this one tonight after getting home from my friend's place, but I was hid with an idea after my last post that wouldn't leave me alone. Version B adds my shadowrunner who has decided to ignore being suttle with his entery of the location and has given the doors "THE BOOT!" (He's kicking them in, maybe I'll add someone who got smacked by one of them in the face in a later version.)
Here's my starting image for this month's contest.
Titled: Day is still young.
Its been a good day, but the day's still young.
So I wasn't going to enter, because this is still beyond my level. But eh, somehow I ended up with this picture, anyway.
@Hylas: check out @Knittingmommy's posts here (I wish I knew how to link to a specific post!). She describes Crush Blacks, Burn Highlights, and White Point. I'm still very much out of my depth when it comes to their use; but I can certainly point to others' advice!
@TigerAnne: Beyond your level? What is this nonsense?
Anyhow, onto the picture. You have a very distinct foreground and background, segregated via DoF. Personally, I'd put the trees in the background category, as, to me, they're a bit busy and compete with your subject for attention. I would recommend moving them away from the camera a bit (so the leaves aren't quite so individual), and pull in the far focus plane (Shrink either the Focal Distance or teh F/Stop in the camera tab) so that they are blurred.
@Everyone
This is my default scene:
Important things for DoF: I keep a secondary camera slaved to my primary one, positioned at (600, 0, -600) and rotated (0, 90, 0). Adjust the Z coord to be pointing at your subject, and the X far enough so you can see the everything you want in focus. Set your view to the DoF camera, then select the primary camera and adjust camera settings to get the planes where you want them. Thhis won't help with deciding which things get to be in focus and which things get blurred, but it as made implementing that decision way easier.
I also keep a bunch of tiny spheres around for pointing at. The particular arangement parented to the camera was due to finding weirdness when I pointed eyes at the camera itself, but things looked right when pointed at something in line with and behind the camera.
@TigerAnne: I agree that it might look better if you made the trees blurry, and perhaps part of the ground closest to the camera.
I'm also not sure what your character is up to here. If she's posing for the camera, she should be looking at us.
Or you could place an open book on the ground in front of her. Then she'd be looking up from her book because of some off-screen disturbance.
@dstuffle: looks great, the light really feels like morning! Only his sheriff star looks a little pasted-on.
@TigerAnne: Sorry I missed that comment last month; here's the way I figured out how to make colored lights. It might be easier to use actual 'light' objects, but I've been sticking to meshlights and image-based-lighting.
Things to note: under Shader Presets, everyone has Iray->DAZ Uber. Within that, the most important ones to remember are the !Iray Uber Base and Emissive shaders.
Things to keep in mind with the emissive shader:
Thank you for comments and suggestions, guys. Here's version 2:
I dunno. It's kind of like I get a feeling of tunnel-vision when I look at it. Maybe it's just because it's 2am, and my brain is overdue some sleep. (No, I don't have to get up early tomorrow. Thankfully.)
I think that may be a 3Dlight material to Iray conversion issue. I'll have to play with it some to see what I can do.
Updated with a (hopefully) better material on the badge and a larger image size.
@dstuffle:
@TigerAnne: I like it!
Your character currently looks a little disengaged from the kitten, though. Maybe lower her eyes to make her look directly at the kitten.
And the kitten seems to be playing with nothing in particular. Maybe reposition the womans right hand to make the kitten play with the hand.
Version C here. Only change was adding a guard who was foolishly leaning on the door to the room when our shadowrunner decided to kick the door in. As a result said gaurd is catching some air as he went flying.
Finally got something to use DOF with
DOF applied
Been waiting for camera related topic for 11 months so will be following along. The more I can learn about cameras the better.
Not sure I understand FOV as might affect DoF. (Assuming it does) Is there a maximum DoF?
Can the cube way off in the hills be brought into sharper focus? Might come in handy for trees on hills or in this case maybe some cactus. Problem is even if pane is behind cube, it still looks blurry.
Anyway, will call this one 'Roadtrip Fun' for now.
Goals: See how far apart dof can be extended and also: possible to tilt DoF planes. (Quite a few camera settings not sure about)
thx
--Bruce
======
Don't want to appear like it's all about me, so just some observations for everyone else. Feel free to ignore. : )
@ Shinji
Ouch! In the back! Cool render. Had me thinking about an old sim that would’ve busted me for violating Rules of Engagement. Baddie *is* in the arms room though. : )
@ RCBPanzer
Didn't know that about two cameras. Will have to check it out. Maybe can help with DoF problem. Thanks for taking time.
@ dstuffle
Am on a 4k monitor that’s unforgiving. Assume you’ll up render quality for final entry? Lot of grain/noise. Scene itself looks great though.
@ Tigeranne
Nice start. As Hylas pointed out, give kitten a ball of string or something?
@ Hylas
Hmmm... How to put this politely... Undesired highlight on catsuit in glute/groin region. Cool scene, but guessing you wouldn’t want that as distraction. If using a light, raise it on Y or maybe tilt up on X? If it’s a reflection from emissive bans on thighs... Change the color? If suit is reflecting something else that's going to be some tweaking. Best on it.
@ No Nose
Nice scene & not much to nit-pick. Only thing comes to mind is shadow on viewers right. Anything behind the scenes might be making that shadow? A puzzle.
@ Avinash
Strong start too. Only nit-pick might be cropping at any joint like elbows or knees generally avoided. Zoom out a little & show upper part of her shins?
----
Hopefully that’s everyone. Thanks for reading & enjoy week!
--Bruce
Looks like you guys all have a great start. Looking forward to seeing what you guys all come up with.
@TigerAnne Don't feel like this is beyond your level. Practicing and getting the experience of doing the renders is part of what this challenge is about. All of us started in the same place you are at one point. We'll help you as much as we can.
Let's see if I can answer some of these questions.
FOV increases the size of the triangle in front of the camera and yes, it does affect DOF. Beyond that I can't really tell you because it's something I haven't played with a lot yet. You can take a look at the Daz documentation about DOF where I got these visuals. There is a little bit of explanation in there about FOV.
Best answer is I'm not sure. Someone who knows about DOF might pop in and answer. I just play with it until I get the look I want and can't really explain anything. There are some really good videos on YouTube explaining DOF in the Daz camera, but I don't recall if any of them actually addressed this senario. I'll take a look at my bookmarks and see if I can link the videos that helped me the most in understanding DOF this evening.
Great start!
DOF in camera sets a sharp area with a blurred area front and back, depending on the settings. It is affected by the Focal Length, Focal Distance and F/Stop. Each or all of these settings changes the sharp area which can be so thin that only part of the figure is sharp or bigger where more of the foreground or background are sharp.
Think of the sharp area being between two fuzzy planes. As the settings change the distance between the curtains expands or contracts making things in front of the front one and behind the rear one fuzzy and between them clear.
The longer the focal length, amount of zoom and moving the camera back the narrower the space that is sharp and the more blurred the front and back gets. By changing the F/Stop and the focal distance the sharp area between the two planes can be increased, decreased or moved backwards or forwards.
The F/Stop also governs the amount of area that is sharp without moving the camera. A small F/Stop will give a very small area and a larger number a larger area.
https://www.exposureguide.com/focusing-basics/
https://www.diyphotography.net/depth_of_field/
https://digital-photography-school.com/understanding-depth-field-beginners/
Thanks for replies. Been raining for 3 weeks from tropical storm, so work is saying, “Stay safe - stay home!” That gives me time to play in DAZ :-)
Don’t want to monopolize things though. Will just follow up with two questions then leave off.
1.) Is it possible to angle DoF planes on X? On a real camera, specialized lenses can tilt up, down, sideways, etc. Haven’t figured out how to tilt them up in DAZ though. Maybe you can’t? (Screen shots)
2.) Possible to do lens flare in DAZ using other camera parameters? ( f-stop, aperture blades & rotation don't seem to do anything. )
As you can tell, I'm something of a shutterbug so quite a few questions about camera settings.
But enough of me chattering. Will leave off for others.
---
If the DoF plans are tilted down -- possible to rotate then perpendicular to floor?
If the camera is too close to subject, moving near DoF plane or focal distance towards camera can result in *behind* camera. :O! Other than trippy special FX -- not sure what use that would be. Nothing for it put to zoom out if cannot tilt DoF planes?
---
Thanks again, both of you, for taking time to reply.
--Bruce
NAE
Some quick images using DOF and the camera settings I used. Each lens was zoomed to try and get the same focal point which was the couple in the nearest jet ski. The white plane behind the ski in the left hand screen is the Rear DOF Plane. The Front DOF Plane is just touching the end of the driving handle in his left hand.
200 mm lens.
135 mm lens.
65 mm Lens.
40 mm Lens.
That's what he gets for leaning on the door like he was when it was kicked it.
Anyway version D has sparks added coming from the door hinges
@Tynkere as far as I know there is no way with the standart settings to create lens flare in DS. The simple reason is that the "lens" you use on your camera does not have the physics of a glass lens.
I believe it was a thread in the art studio which is buried somewhere deep down, someone tryed to actually set glass lens propped up to the camera and emulate the physical reactions to light. I didn't follow that up though, so not sure how far they succeeded.
there is a product for Iray by ThePilosopher which creates Lens flare in DS https://www.daz3d.com/epic-props-dynamic-lens-flare-starburst-for-iray
and the epic Prop godrays https://www.daz3d.com/epic-props-godrays-volumetric-light-for-iray by the same PA had an option for lens flare as well
a prop which provides the resulting effect of Lens flare is this one https://www.daz3d.com/fsl-easy-lens-flare-bokeh by Fuseling
@ Fishtales
Nice series of shots. Really gives good examples of DoF.
Am guessing DS cannot emulate a tilt lens? (Couldn’t find anyting on google) Probably better explained at these links.
https://fstoppers.com/lenses-architectural-photography
https://www.beyondphototips.com/lenses-for-architectural-photography/
@ Shinji
Kicking in door or C4? That’s one guard who won’t make that mistake again.
@ Linwelly
Makes sense. No photons or actual glass. Thanks for store links. 'Godrays' might come in handy for dust in a barn the students might explore? Promos of DAZ barn has dust caught in sunlight, but don't know if that's would be different product. Will check them out.
@KnittingMommy
Bowed out in April (I think) to make room for others. That might have been mistake since still don’t know jack about DS, but I keep my word.
Continue to post Iray preview screenshots or renders acceptable? Since am just here to learn, thinking screenshots might be easier just for the feedback. Don’t know how they look on receiving end tho.
thanks for reading
--Bruce
@Tynkere If you have a question, sometimes screenshots can be really helpful. No problems with posting screenshots to help illustrate when you need to them.
You can tilt the lens, and other things too if you look under the camera settings, but I couldn't see if it was affecting the DOF plane or if it stayed angled to the camera position. Looking at a side view the plane didn't change but that doesn't mean it didn't just that Studio isn't showing it. I have only dabbled a little with those settings so I'm not sure how they really work. I do know that the Lens Shift Y moves the lens up or down but it doesn't maintain the camera angle so it would be just the same as moving the camera, as far as I can see. I have tried the Lens Distortion on this image.
Lens Distortion Type - poly3
K1- -2.00
K3 - -20.00
Scale - -5
NAE
@ Knittingmommy (& everyone I guess)
Hopefully some progress. Still not sure why horse isn’t sharper if far DoF plane almost right behind it. Set f-stop so the far plane is almost to windmill. Horse will be in focus, but windmill too crisp if that makes any sense. Sheer size of the windmill? The scrub seems nice & blurred.
Lens is 65mm, focal dist. 372 and f-stop at 212.5 if makes any difference.
@ Fishtales
Thanks for taking time. Any settings I can learn like that get copied into 3-ring binder. Found a page via google that explains X & Y mm offset. They are for stereoscopic? Remember through those things at school, but not sure what DAZ would do with them. Anyway, might come in handy sometime. Very tall cube and play with some of those settings. : )
thanks for reading
--Bruce
So here's version 2. I finally got to use chicken props btw. Someone please tell me they like the chickens and they don't look goofy.
Thanks for reading!
--Bruce
So, I finally found some time to work on this again!
Main changes:
- Reposed the arm. Learned about "Parent" and "Parent in place" while doing it (the weapon had been manually positioned before.)
- Tried "Crush Blacks", but I didn't like the effect. Played around with the glossy settings instead - mainly "Glossy Roughness" and "Glossy Reflectivity" - and set up some very basic scenery off panel for the catsuit to reflect. (I'm aware that there's something called "Skydome", but I'm not focusing on that right now.)
- Photoshopped away some reflections around the crotch.
- Figured out why the skyscrapers were so yellow. It was the "Emission Temperature".