Genesis in Carrara - Dumb Question
PhilW
Posts: 5,144
As you will know, when you load Genesis into Carrara 8.5, there is a top level in the hieracrchy called Genesis which appears to be a group, containing the one item, also called Genesis which is the figure, and under that is "Actor" (which relates to the geometry of the figure) and the bone hierarchy, starting with Hip.
My dumb question is Why is the top level group there, what purpose does it serve? Is it so that added clothes etc will be part of the same group, as seems to happen automatically? Are there any other reasons, or things that would NOT work if the top level group were not there?
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I get a different set of Parameters when I highlight Genesis vs Actor and also Head. It's confusing because I forget which morphs go with which part of the figure. There must be a better reason for it but that's the difference I notice.
Silene
I agree it is not always intuitive which to use, but I think you are missing my point. At the top level is something called "Genesis" which does not seem to do much at all - it does not have parameters, it appears just to be a group holder, with (initially) only the one item in it, which is also called "Genesis" (which is the actual figure). If I drag the second level Genesis so that it is no longer part of the group, it still seems to work as a figure. And in DS, there is no distinction, there is only the one top level Genesis and not two - so why in Carrara have they added the top level Genesis group?
I found myself asking the very same question the first time I saw Genesis in Carrara.
it is a grouping
You can select it and go to edit ungroup if you like
I find it handy as pulling genesis around with the translate gizmo you are more than likely to pull a bone resulting in a contorted mess only animation zero figure can fix, undo will not, which is quite upsetting if you are in the middle of an animation.
Thanks Wendy, helpful as always.
I agree it is not always intuitive which to use, but I think you are missing my point. At the top level is something called "Genesis" which does not seem to do much at all - it does not have parameters, it appears just to be a group holder, with (initially) only the one item in it, which is also called "Genesis" (which is the actual figure). If I drag the second level Genesis so that it is no longer part of the group, it still seems to work as a figure. And in DS, there is no distinction, there is only the one top level Genesis and not two - so why in Carrara have they added the top level Genesis group?
Apologies, Phil. To me (in my very limited experience) it just seems to follow the same structure for when Genesis is open in DAZ. See screenshot. I never thought about it other than it's just part of the DS baggage that is annoying because of the confusing morph assignments! Just me humble 2p...never thought it meant more than Cararra dragging in all the Genesis/DAZ properties.
Cheers, Silene
Another dumb question - is it not possible to SAVE or EXPORT DUF files from Carrara 8.5??
no :roll:
It seems an astonishing omission!
I thought the same. Why no export for .duf etc.
As much as I wanted Genesis to be a native Carrara figure, unfortunately some of the most important features still require Studio to setup and export(JCM's etc.).
...and here's why:
Okay so I can export from DS into Carrara. What kinds of things? All kinds of things.
Okay, so what can I import from Carrara into DS?
Well, not landscapes, skies, shaders, lights, volumetric anything...
see where this is going?
So did DAZ as soon as the possibility presented itself - and, like what can happen all too often here, DAZ, the kind hearted folks trying - really trying to please everyone was hit with all manner of really rude returns. It's a shame - but it's the nature of things, I guess.
In order for it to work, they'll first need to find a way to restrict its use to only things that it would work for - say... a tool. Here's your Genesis - to - DUF tool for Carrara to DS. And, yes. It will work with Genesis clothing, poses, and materials. So then when you perform the export, it would need to launch a pop-up for configuring how the materials are to be exported - some manner that would convert to a DS standard. Sort of like how they're now going to do it for DS to Carrara. But things can be a LOT trickier in reverse.
I hope that helps shine some light on the difficulties, even though I am merely speculating as a casual observing fan of the whole process.
One more educated guess: I am quite confident that a LOT of time and research has already gone into this very thing. And I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of work around for the future.
Thanks, Dart, I can easily see that there are lots of things in Carrara that are not supported in DS. It still seems strange that - where it makes sense - this is not yet possible. Lots of things can't be exported to OBJ but that is still supported...
hmm I'm having trouble identifying which part of your question is dumb ;)
hmm I'm having trouble identifying which part of your question is dumb ;)
:lol: As someone once said, there are no such things as dumb questions, only dumb answers! ;-)
As for your 'dumb' question, I have no clue why they feel the need to put it into it's own group, like that. But I've been finding it to work out pretty handily, as I use that top structure to give a unique name to my character, while leaving the rest almost unchanged. I still add an indicator after the next Genesis as well - for easier fit-to identification, when needed ;)
I usually made this group for pre-Genesis figures, which is where I would store their clothing, hair, whatever else. I actually have highlighting light rigs in there too, but I'm starting to get away from that now - Thanks Phil!
Top Level = Animation Group
2nd Level = Rig Group
3rd Level = Geometry
Top level is a scene line. It is there because of the way Carrara handles scenes. I hope that helps.
Big time!
It's a very enlightening way to wrap my head around it! :)
...and here I thought it was just for matter of convenience!
So, DAZ_jared... Have I told you?
You Freaking R O C K ! ! !
I'm still not sure I fully understand. The animation track for NLA is associated with the second level group, and if you get rid of the top level by ungrouping, you can still animate the figure as normal. I can see that it may have some uses for moving the figure without messing up anything else, but it seems odd that this adds an extra level which isn't required for other figures in Carrara, and doesn't seem to be matched by a similar "group" level in DS.
I know I may be labouring the point, but I will be updating the Carrara training shortly, and if I can fully get my head around it, it will help me explain it to others!
The reason that I've always done it from the start was to give myself a proper place to file stuff so that my animation scene files can open and close in bits. But seeing it labeled "Animation Group" immediately makes me remember how often having them saved in such a way has been a true delight for animations - as you can further tweak the group above and beyond animations contained within - like you say, on the 'Rigging Group'. For example, with a running animation applied, I wanted my hero to spring off of a certain plank on the bridge as she flies through the scene - but that's in the center of the animation sequence. So I go to that spot, where her foot should be making contact, grab the "Animation Group" and position her so that her foot is on the plank. Now go to frame '0' and delete the keyframe for that group and drag the new one back there. If further changes are needed to be made to that timing vs distance traveled, undo moving that keyframe and, this time using Alt + Drag the keyframe back to '0', which copies it, leaving the one that places her foot on the plank exactly where it belongs.
I could be reading it wrong, being the odd little fellow that I am... but that's how I interpreted it as soon as he said it.
i am going to have to re read this thread....i haven't installed Ds because i never could get carrara to use the genesis figures
if it is working now..i may have to try it
i saved a genesis figure as a cr2,using Poser....tried to open in carrara...and it gave poor carrara some hell..it said it imported..but nothing was in the view port
I have it working reasonably well now
but I find I need to save figure and clothes as a .duf scene in studio 4.6 rather than load and autofit in Carrara for good results
Smoothing does not work and some clothes relies on it so I often need to go into vertex room and resize bits too
also subdivision and hiding geometry passes over so if you want your mesh unchanged you need to take this into account.
Hi PhilW, there is a thread for you on this matter (?) over at renderosity.
Posted by one of our recently fallen members.
Just so you know.
Thanks for the heads up, I have now seen that.
Sorry to bring up this old thread,
I think this is incorrect. For Genesis/Genesis 2 the hierarchy seems to be:
Top Level = Group
2nd Level = Animation Group
3rd Level = Mesh + Skeleton