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Thanks, Carlton. That helps some, but I still can't get the presets or landscape wizards to work for a new document.
In what way? They aren't there, or they can't be chosen, or — I'm trying to figure out where the problem might be.
When I create a new document, I get the window that allows you to select a preset, a landscape wizard or a blank document. Neither the preset nor the landscape wizard options are selectable; I can only select the blank document. When I try to go to File > Open Preset, I get an error message:
Wizard Scenes not found: install the Wizard Scenes from the application CD to access them.
L.
Fourth try at posting this. Then I believe you missed installing the original Carrara native content. When you choose "Carrara 8.5" or "Carrara 8.5 Pro" (whichever) in your account, you see something like
Second try at *this* part of the post. Choose "Carrara 8 Native Content" at the bottom and you'll see the files to download:
I did install Carrara 8 Native Content. Does it matter the order in which items are installed?
Then merge the contents of that native content into the appropriate folder within the Carrara package as described in the other thread:
Sorry. I've been in posting hell, didn't notice your intermediate post. The order they're put in shouldn't matter, only that they're there. If they're in the package and where they should be, I'm at a loss. Sorry!
That worked finally. Thanks, Carlton!
L.
Glad I could help.
I have Carrara 8 installed and now Carrara 8.5. Carrara 8 is installed to C:\DAZ\Carrara8Pro64 and has been for a long time. Carrara 8.5 is now installed to C:\DAZ\DAZ 3D\Carrara8.5. The latter was determined by trial and error, having noted (as others have) that it just adds another path for Carrara 8.5 in the DIM | Setting | Installation tab if you don't do what it seems to want (i.e. DAZ 3D in the path). So far, so good.
I now have only one entry (each) for Carrara 8 and Carrara 8.5 and they are the paths above.. Both versions seem to work at first glance.
Now the problem: Carrara 8 Native Content is installed to C:\DAZ\Carrara8Pro64 and DIM lists it as installed 7-31-2013 (before 8.5 was released). The only way I know how to tell this is to do right click then select "Installed Files..." and click on one of the links in the resulting dialog.
However, I have independently verified that there is a lot of stuff under Presets in the Carrara 8 directory and hardly any in the Carrara 8.5 one. It pretty clearly has not been installed for Carrara 8.5.
So how can DIM install it in both places anyway? Or is there something I must do to get that to happen.
Even if I get it to happen, what will happen when I click a link in "Installed Files...".
In any event I necessarily need a different path specified for Carrara 8 and Carrara 8.5. DIM apparently uses the one for Carrara 8 when it is Carrara 8 Native Content.
It looks to me like a viable solution would be to make two packages (with the same content):
Carrara 8 Native Content
Carrara 8.5 Native Content
Or is there another solution to have it installed for both versions?
I think it's rather obvious at this point that DAZ tried to create a one-size-fits-all installer that has turned out to be an embarrassing nightmare.
* Why on earth did DAZ try to create such an installer that can't get things right?
* Why on earth does the DIM actually let people download the individual content ZIP fies and then reference EXE files in the installation documentation?
* What if I have saved all the downloads into an archive drive and want to install all of this software and content myself when my computer is offline in a non-internet remote location, which renders the DIM utterly useless?
* Why do we have to rely on reading through hundreds of posts to find tricks to get this software installed in the first place?
* Why does the DIM get confused when more than one version of C8 is installed on a machine and thus blows the content installs?
I mean seriously - after you've downloaded everything the web site and "My Account" section let you download/ HOW DO YOU INSTALL IT MANUALLY AND CORRECTLY TO WHERE IT ACTUALLY WORKS??!?? (caps intentional)
DAZ - dump this DIM junk, it's abysmal. Epic fail.
Not true.
Frustrating when funny stuff occurs, yes. Epic fail - I must disagree - especially since all of the above points and considerations are now set up and working correctly in DIM.
First of all... DIM is new software, just like anything else. So when I decided to give it a try, I started (I try to always follow this path with new anything) by having a look at the instructions, which have been around since they first launched the beta of it. I know, because that's when I first tested it- launch of beta day.
All of that aside, the first thing that becomes clear is that, if you want to properly use DIM, use it where "Nothing" is previously installed. Jared makes that quite clear in the video tutorials found in the above link to the instructions page.
This is so that DIM knows where 'it' put stuff, and it will also know when there are new updates for anything that it has installed, whenever you log in to your account at DAZ 3D.com with DIM. It's actually an excellent tool, but to use it right, some of us whom have been collecting stuff for years and years have some decision making to go through.
Note: It's really easy to allow DIM to download without installing. We can then install it ourselves just like a zip package you get as a freebie from other sites, like ShareCG.
For example. My workstation has several runtime folders for sorting my content, Poser style.
Some of that content didn't come from the DAZ 3D store so, like Jared suggests in his video, I'm not going to want to uninstall (or delete) stuff that DIM simply cannot replace. So if I want to keep that runtime folder structure without starting fresh... that is one location that I want to keep the DIM away from - period.
Don't use DIM to 'ADD' content to existing directories created and added to prior to DIM. It warns you of that with a pop up if you even try!
Okay... with that straightened out, let's finish dealing with that situation before moving on. Now... please keep in mind that I am typing from what "I feel", and none of this is to be taken as 'official'. I am simply trying to help anyone who is having these headaches. Let's face it... when we get nailed with huge piles of content, it's easy to overlook the simple things, like reading instructions. We are all facing these issues together. So, one more time: If content already exists in a folder, do we let DIM access that folder? No! Absolutely, and unconditionally, No!
But now, let's take one of the very good questions above into consideration: "What if I have DIM download something, but I wish to install it myself?"
The answer: "That is exactly what to do in situations where you don't want to start fresh, and just want to install content just like you always have in the past."
Here's how:
Local Drive > Public Documents > DAZ 3D > Install Manager > Downloads
That's the path where DIM downloads to. So content that you wish to add to your runtime or DS structures that you've installed to before, Have DIM download the product, but install it manually. If you've ever picked up freebies from ShareCG or other sources where the content come in a zip that you unzip into your runtimes, you already know the drill with one small exception. Inside these zips, you have to go into the folder named "content". That's it. Open the zip, it will have two files inside. "Manifest"(file thingy) and "Content"(folder).
Open the "Content" folder and drag the contents directly into the desired runtime or Daz Studio library. It's that simple for non Genesis items. Now let's look at what we need to know about Genesis and it's contents:
Genesis comes with Daz Studio, and has recently been released in a separate "Essentials" product that you can use in the event that you're not using Daz Studio. When you go with Genesis, go with Genesis and stick with that one place. If you install Genesis or any of the content made to work with it, putting it in different locations is a big mistake and can break your content, preventing it from loading - so just don't do it. For this reason, DIM came with a new directory that was an educated guess that nobody already had a directory of the same name in the same location. This was intentional to save you from nightmares - not to give you a headache. If you already have a collection of Daz Studio content in the legacy DS "My Library" or other location, that's fine to keep it. But:
A) Do we install Genesis there?
No!
B) Do we allow DIM to access it?
No!
C) If Genesis is already installed in a location 'other than' where DIM puts it, do we uninstall it from that location?
Yes - and any other Genesis support items as well!
Genesis and DIM locations should be originally started in a fresh, virgin directory - and be kept there beyond the end of time!
Are we all clear on that?
Genesis and the content made to work with it need to be installed and updated together. And they need their uninstallers. Sometimes changes are made that demand the unused legacy file formats get removed, that simply won't occur without an uninstaller. Trust me. Then you'll go to load something in and you'll get "An IO Error has Occurred" or something similar. Just heed the morale of the story. And so far, that is:
A - Do Not allow DIM to access folders that it didn't create itself. Serious.
B - Do Not install Genesis or it's support items without an uninstaller. Serious.
C - To properly keep Genesis up to date, use DIM - it will create the appropriate uninstallers and connect the products to the database.
D - Install ALL Genesis support products to the same directory as Genesis. Using DIM's default Daz Studio/Poser location recommended.
E - To Install content yourself, deselect "Install after Download" in the Download page. Unzip the contents of the "Contents" folder to desired location, But not a location that DIM has access to.
F - If DIM has access to it, don't touch it with anything else!
Now, let's attempt to address the "Multiple Carrara Installation" query.
For starters (I kind of doubt it will work, but you can try it anyways) Go to your Install Locations area and, even though this is normally covered in the "Applications" tab, add both Carrara install locations to the list and label them clearly. In this example, "Carrara 8" and "Carrara 8.5".
Also, be certain that both paths are within the "Applications" directory.
Go to the product in question in your Product Library in you DAZ 3D account.
Select "Download and Install"
Deselect "Install after Download" in the Downloads tab and then let DIM download the file.
When done, Go to the Install tab. At the bottom of the page, select "Show Details"
Use the Dropdown for Installation Path to the desired location.
Go ahead and have DIM install it. If you deselect "Delete After Install" I wonder if it will still show up for installation possibilities(?)
If not, go back to your product page and run the process again, this time choosing the other directory from the bottom of the install tab.
I'm going to stop typing now.
We WILL figure this all out.
One last thing, we can always just download and install without deleting for Carrara content - and then manually unzip the contents to the opposite directory.
Here's how I would do it if I wanted to run both Carrara's:
Only use DIM for the current Carrara 8.5
Like BooJum the Brown Bunny recommends:
If you've been using DIM on a fresh installation of Carrara 8, use the DIM to uninstall everything related to Carrara 8... everything.
This will only affect plugins that can be uninstalled. Everything else will remain in the installation directory intact and can still be used either in that same location, or dragged into a new location. I like to keep things simple, so I prefer default directories.
If anything has been installed for 8.5, I would uninstall all of that too. Again... if other plugins or whatever are left behind... keep it - it should easily survive this whole process.
Now open DIM and remove Carrara 8.1 from the 'Applications' list by selecting it, and hitting the minus sign(-). Make sure that the correct 8.5 directory exists in there.
If you've added 8.1 to the Download locations tab, remove it from there too.
Now log in and download everything that has to do with Carrara and have it install after download, but not delete the files afterwards (that check box is in the "Install" tab)
Now go to Local Drive > Public Documents > DAZ 3D > Install Manager > Downloads
Install Carrara 8.1 all over again manually.
One more note -
DIM does not recognize and download or install inagini's Advance Pack, or most of Fenric's Plugins - and probably other items as well.
These Items must be downloaded and installed manually from your Product Library. Also, DIM installs Luxus, but you still need to install Lux Render manually as well.
I appreciate your efforts to straighten this all out. But look at the novel you had to write to explain this above. Can you think of a single product in the entire 3D world that would require this level of trickery to get working? No. My point is that this is a functional disaster, and you just confirmed it above.
I feel it critical to note, however, that I REALLY appreciate your efforts in helping people with this product. If you don't work for DAZ, then they owe you some serious consulting compensation. I do truly appreciate your efforts, I have noted and been reading many of your posts as I re-acquaint myself with this product. I started using C8.1 last year, and love the product despite my limited experience and knowledge of it at this point due to having abandoned the effort and now returning for another try. One way or another I will learn to choke down this new abysmal installer that gets utterly baffled by anything that is previously installed (which would get any real-world software dev project manager fired).
No product should require this level of voodoo to get it working, so hopefully the DIM is getting some serious remedial dev thrown at it.
And if you're on Mac OSX, Native Content and any content that involves program data like extensions, leaves or presets HAS to be done manually, as explained further up the thread. Unlike DOS/Windows, Mac OSX Carrara requires copying into the software package, which so far has to be done manually and can't be done through DIM.
I like DIM. I have nearly 500 packages. It's certainly better than downloading those manually. Much better.
It's a complicated thing to do and so some learning curve is necessary. It works better if you organize your content in a way that works easily with it. Putting all the content in one directory makes it easier, for example. And keeping non-DIM content in a separate directory is probably a good idea. I put all the presets I make in another content directory, for example. For the most part I've found it works well and has sufficient options to organize your content in a reasonable way (though perhaps not the way you used to do it. ;-) )
But I'm less interested in commenting on the advantages and disadvantages of DIM (especially in this particular topic), than in understanding this one particular issue. How do you handle content like "Carrara 8 Native Content" that is supposed to be used in two versions. That is relevant to Carrara 8.5 installation, the subject of this topic.
I don't see how that can work. For example, how would you uninstall from one and not the other?
I think there needs to be two versions of native content, one for each version. I said above they could have the same content, but I see later that the one for 8.5 should have what is in the one for 8 plus the new stuff for 8.5 since there is only one package named "Carrara 8.5 Native Content".
I am still stuck with the Carrara 8 Native Content installed in 8 but not in 8.5. Any suggestion on how to remedy this, preferably within the confines of DIM?
Within the confines of DIM? No.
That said... You are right in thinking that you need "two versions of native content, one for each version".
The only thing in the 8.5 Native Content folder is some Skin shaders. Everything else needs to be ported over from 8.
Make a copy of the Native Content from the 8 folder and move it in to the appropriate directory in the 8.5 folder.
Then, add the new 8.5 Native Content items (the skin shaders) to the appropriate directory in the folder you just copied over from 8.
When you're finished all the Native Content from 8 will now be available in 8.5 (plus the new Skin shaders 8.5 offers) and it will also still be available in 8.
The entire process should take no more than a minute.
You're not too far off from the solution I just came up with (Windows):
0. Download DIM and save (keep the installation file), do not run.
1. Install DIM on a clean box.
2. Go into DIM, logon, and go into settings.
3. Set up a special folder of your own to place all downloads into (not the default).
4. Download all your software and bundleware into it.
5. Save your serial#s in a text file.
6. Burn it all to a DVD or flash drive.
7. When it comes time to install to an offline box, you install the DIM, set for offline, aim it at your downloads directory, and let it fly.
This is WAY too convoluted, but one plays the hand they've been dealt.
GigaShadow and bobh:
Thanks for the info. The gist of what you both said is that you can't fix it in DIM, and I would guess that is likely so (and probably won't change ;-) )
What I did:
1. Copy the Carrara 8 directory to somewhere for safe keeping.
2. In DIM uninstall Carrara 8 Native Content.
3. Remove Carrara 8 from the Applications tab in Settings.
4. Reinstall Carrara 8 Native Content from the Ready To Install tab.
The Presets are now in the Carrara 8.5 directory. It also didn't take long. The advantage of this method is that DIM should continue to work with Carrara 8.5, what I plan to use in the future.
The Carrara 8 directory is now missing most of the Presets, but I have the backup if I really want to use it. It should be out of the control of DIM, which is OK. I don't really want to use it unless I have trouble with Carrara 8.5.
But if they had done it right, I could continue to use both with DIM, the way it "should" be.
Sorry to drag this up..,.but I am in the midst of re- downloading all my content via DIM (but also manually downloading and saving zip files for safety and for reference, eg to open and see what folders the items are destined for. This follows a complete uninstall and reinstall of C 8.5 pro and DS 4.6 both 64-bit)
I made my Carrara 8.5 path for Carrara tagged items, eg PhilW sidelong hair, Dart's Enviro Kits, and a few others.
Now ready to send the DAZ content to My Library in its public docs folder (am giving up on an old My Documents setup I had...thinking maybe that was buggering up my files/speed/performance...blah blah bla, although I have saved all that content over on external hard drive.
QUESTION: I uninstalled Poser9. I never really used it, and I have only a couple of items that are Poser only, but almost all my DAZ items also came with Poser versions. I assume I don't need to download those Poser tagged items at all and should just "hide" them in DIM before I start a batch download of all the DAZ stuff? There's no longer a Poser Content file as I've uninstalled P9.... I moved it over to that external hard drive.
So is that the way...no need or point in downloading via DIM any Poser tagged items?
Thanks.... getting there thanks to all the info here. Would be doomed without your help.
xx :) SileneUK
I was really hoping to come here and be able to justify the notion of upgrading to C8.5 Pro. Obviously that's a silly idea.
Daz has always been very strong with content creation and I commend them for it. Every iteration of Victoria, Aiko, David, The Girl, etc has been high quality, probably the best quality by almost any yardstick available at their respective times of release. And they have consistently produced excellent 'must-have' morph packs in support of their figures. I don't think I've ever bought a figure or morph pack from Daz that was less than excellent. I use them with such frequency that I probably take them for granted, like everybody else . . .
. . . but . . . daz has a long history of doing, let's face it, a genuinely crappy job any time they try to create installers for anything. It's always been laughable, to the point that you can't help but wonder why they continue to do it. It almost seems to be a fetish they just can't shake.
The cpu on my desktop fried a few days ago, so I spent the weekend reinstalling a 100 gig runtime from scratch on to my laptop. Less than five percent of that is daz content (I don't do any daz figures past V4. Not worth the hassle as a Poser user.) but the daz stuff took far more time to install. All my other content was installed with a simple tool that unzips multiple items in to whatever runtime you choose with a few mouse clicks. But get to the daz stuff and it's a fricking annoying as hell slog through quick sand. When my new desktop gets here I'm only going to install the 'must have' daz content: the figures and morphs. I'm just a hobbyist and I'm not going to go through 'the daz install ordeal' again. It's just not worth it.
I wish daz would stick with what they're good at: content creation. Come up with a sensible and consistent folder structure and leave it to others to create tools to do tasks like content installation from zipped files.