If you Decimate, Clothes won't and Can't Fit again?
nokoteb99
Posts: 931
I have a dress. Jersey Dres 2.
Originally with my morphed V4. it didn't fit so i had to use "Transfer Active Morphs" and then Add Smoothing Modifier
from the Edit/Figure Menu
set those to Collision Iterations 10 or 15 and smoothing to 5
That's how i got my Jersey Dres to fit.
However, when i decimate, then the dres no longer fits perfectly and bodyparts poke through.
What can i do?
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This is after decimating to 40 percent. both the V4 and the Jersey dress.
And the Smotohing modifier no longer works after i do the Decimating.
So i'm stuck what can I do?
Here are two pictures. First is when After decimating the dress, i tried applying smoothing modifier again. And the second one is when i switched the resolution back to BASE and tried the smoothing modifier.
I want that. I want it to look like the second picture, but with low resolution.
So what can i do about that? Anyone know?
My guess : you don't have enough polys for smoothing. So...don't decimate
You can try merging the clothes (groups) with the body. The result will be "permanent clothes" on the exported figure, but it will be a lot smaller and maybe better for game animation. If the merge doesn't work right in the DS exports there other options like exporting clothes and figure separate and merging a tool like UlitmateUnWrap, DeepMesh or Fragmosoft. The third option would be to GoZ from DS, merge and bring it back all rigged and ready. Other geo-modelers will require bone cloning or rig remapping and you would need to define the merged polygroups.
In practice in my games, I leave clothes 100% in the weighting tab, and just reduce the main figure. Then texture atlas or merge uv externally. At that time, I would further reduce the triangulation (seeking a model in the sub 10k range) with a poly reducer (mesh lab /uuwrap) with clothes included. This usually leaves most of but there may be a few tears depending how far you take it. Some examples on my 3dnld.com site where V6 is reduced to like 4K with her clothes actually painted on. (Repstars Paparazzi Shake game). In Snow Jack City I was only able to go so far but decided to push it to get a 6k result, The pig (RawArts Raw Bacon) does have clothes, but it looks likes its in tatters. It was not to bad for teh effect I tried to achieve - and considering these webgl and android ports need every excess poly, eliminated. My target for these limits the executable runtime to only 64mb ram.
Awesome!!!
How do i MERGE the clothes with the body in DAZ? I've never known that.
Can you tell me please?
The easiest method is on FBX type export, in pop up options select Merge Clothing to figure skeleton. Its easier than merging groups in external modeler and performing boolean differences but that works well too. re - Boolean merges: If you have Vue, it has this feature built in as well as many 3d tools and modelers. You could do it with the group editor in Poser too. One thing I can say after doing figure work for a bit, is be fleexible and creative with your pipeline. What works for one figure may not for another so you need to experiment, Cant stress enough the importance of a UV editing capability - helps you understand whats going on with the figure.
I personally find with my FBX exports to iClone 3dxchange5 smoothing with Decimate is a no no!
get the clothes conformed properly without relying on collision if you want to decimate it.
you can do this via send to Hexagon and use softselect to move vertices and create new morphs or as said GoZ if you have Zbrush I presume.
collision works great on undecimated stuff but best left out of the equation if decimating.
Hey thanks alot. Well i tried it . THIS IS NOT DECIMATED yet.
I exported to FBX. and
then i reimported to DAZ. They are definetely all there . HOWEVER, see what happened?
Weird.
And when i first atetemp to import i get this message " Errors: Transform Differences: non uniform scale detected. Results
will likely be differnet"
What's this about and why do they come back like this separated . and then with a tons of extra weird things.
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You do it as a final step from DS in your pipeline. Its no longer a ds figure, its a fbx. DS FBX import is not fully compat with industry standards last I checked - so I wouldnt know what to expect on importing a low poly and make it a figure in ds again... but why - normally its ready for game or animation and maybe some postwork on the textures and uv etc. if at all.
Oh i see. But you said something about Merging dress and figure and export as FBX and then i would be able to decimate the merged group. So that's why i thought i had to reimport to daz.
This wasn't even low poly. when i exported the FBX, it was full quality. i just did it to do the merging that you told me. And then i thought you said i can decimate it as one.
I see. Decimate first, leave clothes at 100% or the best you can w/o tears. Then export as merged. This will drop overlapped (figure) polys and /weld clothes in place where there was skin. It still is reduced. At this point I would use a third party tool to REDUCE TRIS (not decimate) polys while retaining UB boundries. Its a different algorithm than Decimation, it is indiscriminate and only target-able by selection however it works very well and will keep dividing tris down to the triangle.
I got a good workaround.
just for importing DAZ decimated clothed characters into FBX .
However, they're not animateable anymore. but it's ok. I want to have some clothed characters who don't even move.
So what i did is
=from daz, Export my char+clothes+hair+shoes as an OBJ
=reimport to daz, now can easily decimate everything at once.
=export as OBJ or FBX for use in Unity.
But exporting as OBJ is not a good idea because for some reason, when i do that, in unity that OBJ is transparent and weird i can see the insides of the character.
So let me try what i can do
Ok Seems liek it works.
BUT for some reason Unity 4.2.1 can't correctly display OBJ files( or OBJ openeed in DAZ and saved as FBX).
Why does this happen. In Unity 4.1.5 i could get OBJ to display fine.
Anyways, this is what it looks like, it's transparent.
This is what i did
1. Group my character with clothes and hair and shoes by exporting as OBJ
2. Reimport the OBJ to DAZ. Decimate it
3. Export that as OBJ or FBX
4. Import to Unity. Unity 4.5.1 could display OBJ fine but now they always look transparent and you can see the insides like the picture.
So that sucks. Can't even have OBJ display well.
The fact that it looks weird and transparent is because i decimated it??? well but even if i dont decimate OBJ files . if i take them to Unity, they look transparent like this. so that's not a decimation problem. I don't know what's going on with the DAZ Studio OBJ exporter.
Some online forums and stuff say that when it looks transparnets and stuff you need to reverse normals(whatever that means) but DAZ doesn't have an option for reversing normals/recalculating normals
Image Removed by Moderator please read this http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3279_4/
Ok Guys. I just tested a bunch of OBJ files exported from daz and then opened in unity.
Result?
They all look the same, transparent and you can see the insides. What's going on?
Is there a bug in OBJ export in DAZ? What can we do?
Examples:
Palm tree OBJ from daz in unity
And TV OBJ from daz in unity
So it's both people and props that have this weird transparent thing. It's not really transparency.. it's a weird thing like you can see the insides but when you rotate the object there's a weird visual effect.
anyways, here are pics
But then again, i'm not sure if the problem is DAZ or Unity. I had unity 4.1.5 recently and i wasn't having this problem but then recently i updated to 4.2.1
But then i asked in their forum and they said that it's a problem with the normals. So that means the way DAZ exports OBJ is not compatible with unity 4.2.1?
RE: Transparent clothes, thats the UV part I was mentioning. You see DAZ figures are much more complex that what Unity expects. Unity probably wants one 1:1 UV texture map LAYER with the group or the whole figure. DAZ will optimize each model at the group level so each group may have the same UV (or different).
The effect you are seeing is that the Clothes UV is identical to the Figure UV so when you merged the cloths and figure groups, the render choose sees the UV for the body where the clothes/body overlap in the merge. Ans that's all the clothes. No biggie - its expecvted and can be accommodated for.
One rather step you can take to fix this is to reorient the UV maps, MERGE them in Texture Atlas first (enable toolbar icon in DS preferences) and adjust as necessary in Photoshop - also to to help fix seams, FILL black background with BLEND option - so you have skin color where
black was.
WHY this IS So:
If you consider a mesh object (OBJ) is a database table of vertice addresses represented in a space defined by the x,y,z axis, the uv is just addition to the OBJ table that defines the same vertices - yet assigns a material and texture field to it. Same goes for other animatable mesh properties such as joint bend (TriAxis etc) weighting, and other types of surface mappings such as transparant SSS and such. Most types of texture maps (layers) just take advantage of the poly group borders coordinates like texture/bump/depth maps but define themselves in an associated file (MTL = OB). Materials usually are a second set of addresses that do not necessairly conform to the groupings. Like skin materials since they encompass many groups.
Finally about that comment who these exports are not pose-able - that's because the skeletal rig (Bones) that really is the essence of the figure is NOT able to be defined in a OBJ. Animated mesh must have a method to assign the animation to the mesh. This is done by creating bones which are really methods to designate the rigid areas of a mesh (figure) GROUP (polyon group defined in mesh such as Hip,Abdomen,Chest,RCollar,RShldr,RForearm,RHand...). The junction of bones is the joint. Where the developer wants a bend to occur is further defined by the blend of movement through the designated range of motion. In other words not only does the figure rig define body parts, it also defines range of motion and level of deformation that occurs. There are several techniques involved to set JOINT PARAMETERS and Weight Mapping - not hard once you understand the concept and application interface. The latter being the tricky part - especially in Poser. In either case all this figure info is all again more associated data to the obj table. - but the obj spec will not accommodate for that. Nor the changes along a timeline (keyframes) needed for animation. Its a huge expansion to OBJ but thats exactly what a DAE, CR2/PX2 and FBX are. Another limitation of OBJ I should mention, you cannot really derive volumetric info. Its only useful for determining relational proximity of its last data-point, with the origin being defined. Unlike a STL or CAD file. There is no grid or standardization of the distance of the datapoints from origin. Thats why you need to convert OBJ's to 3D print. And also why you can "morph" (reassigning vertices proximity) an obj and extend a point into infinity.
Thanks. SO there's no way to import OBJ(without the weird transparent can-see-inside of body effect) to 4.2.1 straight from daz?
Why then was I able to to do it from 4.1.5?
Really it depends on the game engine. Its easy fix. Have you using Texture Atlas feature in DS yet to merge uv?
Ohhh so all i have to do is use Texture Atlas?
Yeah i kinda used it for some other things before. just to try to export an FBX .
So, i just use Texture Atlas? What do you mean merge UV? is there an option i have to put a CHECK on that says MERGE UV ?
Also, if i save an OBJ..
Well
First) I setup my character with clothes.. and make an Atlas
Then)I save out as OBJ wihtout COLLECTING textures?
is that how i do it?
then how will i tell it to use the Atlas textures that i made in step one?
Hi Guys. Just wannt to say. thanks for all the help.
Now finally i got it. This is for static nonanimated. But it's ok ,that's just what i want i dont mind. I just wanted this so i can at least use the Jersey dress and it looks nice. cause in FBX the jersey just doesn't work. but i need smoe background characters just standing around and i wanna use the Jersey so this was something i needed.
My steps are:
1. bring together all the elements you want on your character (hair, shoes, character etc)
2. Export as OBJ to group it as one
3. Reimport the OBJ and decimate it
4. Do the TextureAtlas
5. That's pretty much it, import to Unity and drag the Texture atlas to a Shader section called "NONAME" as soon as you do that, all the character is textured correctly including the eyes. (Except for the eyelashes)
Here's a pic. It's 10% decimated so thta's probably why the skin is showing through the dres.
Anyways. Awesome!!!
Guys. Now it's pretty perfect except for one thing.
Some weird thing is that
the way the OBJ responds to light is not normal. When the light points away from the OBJ characters front side it gets lit and when it points towards it it gets dark.
that's totally wrong behavior. Any ideas on this?
Well i know not all of you use Unity but whoever does know about it, OR if you know why would an OBJ do that.
Alright. Not too shabby!
Now if you open the texture map image file (TIFF or JPG) exported by the Texture Atlas in photoshop or gimp - save off original backup copy, then select the region/group for her abdomen that is skin colored and FILL it will the Color grabbed from Dress and test the results by naming as teh original or editing and renaming the image via the OBJ's *.MTL.file. That would get rid of her dress holes. Now if you wanted... you could import the OBJ (Not FBX) back into DAZ and, create a figure for it and TRANSFER rig quite easily, Then you would have a DS compatible, decimated figure. Then you could use DS to add animations and export ad FBX for games. Thats the DS two-step I do usually.. Ta-da