The Official aweSurface Test Track

Sven Dullah

I was about to post a render of a character with some fibermesh hair against a simple background, non progressive 8x8PS render, diffuse depth 2, reflection depth 1 and hair depth 2, default Irradiance/SS/hair samples. Turns out I can't attach any files nor edit my posts at this moment, so it will have to wait. Just filed a ticket. Anyways, the render took 1h 15 min. So looks like the current build is like 4 time slower than 1.3? I have no intention of re installing that version so let's call it an educated guess.

Edit: Ok was able to edit the post using another browser. 

wowie

Sven Dullah said:

Hmm, I also beginning to think Iray on CPU now is faster than scripted 3DL pathtracing. Haven't actually done any Iray testing but I think the current awe build is roughly 3 times slower than the 1.3 version. Even a simple one character render with a background now takes about 1h even with a simple hair on my machine. I used to be able to do those renders in 15-20 min. Not exactly complaining...more of an observation;)

I've not seen render times go up that much. Especially with overrides enabled with the default values (specular depth for dielectric 2, metal 4). But the render times are inevitable if you want noise kept at a minimum.

This scene still renders in 25 minutes, roughly the same on older builds (while writing this post and having background tasks running). Reflection enabled on all surfaces, everything with 1 % roughness, so pretty reflective (though not mirror smooth). Maybe your processor is throttiling down performance due to heat and/or power draw? I cleaned mine  a few weeks ago, and the first time I mounted the processor cooler incorectly, so experience thermal throttling with the temperature hitting 80 degrees Celsius. Once properly installed, it's back to something like 65 degrees instead.

Render time without the override is 34 minutes.

Now, DS 4.8 upwards may be slightly slower if you have SSS enabled, but it shouldn't push render times to what you're seeing.

There are scenes with higher render times, usually due to having highly reflective metals. I usually just make sure to have roughness a tad higher on those items and letting the roughness optimization kick in. You can also dial down the metal reflection depth override if you need to have mirror/highly reflective metals.

As for you light problem, if the size is the problem then simply just make the emtter larger and have unobstructed path. Or you know, turn off the lamps completely.

I actually fired up iray yesterday. Still slower on my scenes and PC setup.  But go ahead and use iray if that better.fits your need. Based on my test scenes, iray can still be up to 4x slower with 100% convergence and no denoising.

Sven Dullah

wowie said:

Sven Dullah said:

Hmm, I also beginning to think Iray on CPU now is faster than scripted 3DL pathtracing. Haven't actually done any Iray testing but I think the current awe build is roughly 3 times slower than the 1.3 version. Even a simple one character render with a background now takes about 1h even with a simple hair on my machine. I used to be able to do those renders in 15-20 min. Not exactly complaining...more of an observation;)

I've not seen render times go up that much. Especially with overrides enabled with the default values (specular depth for dielectric 2, metal 4). But the render times are inevitable if you want noise kept at a minimum.

This scene still renders in 25 minutes, roughly the same on older builds (while writing this post and having background tasks running). Reflection enabled on all surfaces, everything with 1 % roughness, so pretty reflective (though not mirror smooth).

Ok that's good to know, I'm a bit puzzled over my rendertimes at the moment.

Maybe your processor is throttiling down performance due to heat and/or power draw? I cleaned mine  a few weeks ago, and the first time I mounted the processor cooler incorectly, so experience thermal throttling with the temperature hitting 80 degrees Celsius. Once properly installed, it's back to something like 65 degrees instead.

I'll look into it, something is obviously not right.

Render time without the override is 34 minutes.

Now, DS 4.8 upwards may be slightly slower if you have SSS enabled, but it shouldn't push render times to what you're seeing.

There are scenes with higher render times, usually due to having highly reflective metals. I usually just make sure to have roughness a tad higher on those items and letting the roughness optimization kick in. You can also dial down the metal reflection depth override if you need to have mirror/highly reflective metals.

As for you light problem, if the size is the problem then simply just make the emtter larger and have unobstructed path. Or you know, turn off the lamps completely.

Well, yeah there are workarounds but they all make things look more unrealistic, unfortunately. 

I actually fired up iray yesterday. Still slower on my scenes and PC setup.  But go ahead and use iray if that better.fits your need. Based on my test scenes, iray can still be up to 4x slower with 100% convergence and no denoising.

Haha I'd rather go back to REYES renders, still use the olld stuff for animations. Trying to keep rendertimes at max 30sec/frame. So that's always an option;) 

Mustakettu85

Sven Dullah said:

Ok that's good to know, I'm a bit puzzled over my rendertimes at the moment.

You may want to monitor if all your cores get engaged. Sometimes DS gets weird and the built-in 3Delight fails to go fully multithreaded. Rebooting solves this, in my case.

wowie

New builds.

AWE Hair
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TY3k9Gn27ssEnsNqDoB2EhPViJU0jAFl/view?usp=sharing

AWE Surface
https://drive.google.com/file/d/154hmnGLi6xBC1Qrx3IJVnukVnfZgiCSr/view?usp=sharing

AWE Shading Kit
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i3P5yVxiS4wZzhdZu6FeLNuiNuIPOAVe/view?usp=sharing

The new build should be slightly faster by about 10 to 20% depending on your scene. I didn't see any changes to that subway scene, but there was a noticeable improvement with the kitchen one. The biggest change is I've solved the faceting issue/bug with low poly stuff.

Kettu, I've sent the source files to you.

I'll be busy with some other stuff for awhile doing a book layout and graphic designs stuff. Hopefully not for long.

Sven Dullah

Tks a lot wowie! Good luck with the layout stuff!

Sven Dullah

@wowie

I get some nasty artefacts that apparently are caused by the SSS. Check out the areas around the eyes and mouth!

With SSS:

SSS off:

I tried to tinker with the various SSS parameters but nothing really makes any difference, except turning SSS off. Also I get these dark spots that I can't get rid of, SSS or not. Look at the ears! I did not use normal maps. Turning off specular and/or bump has no effect.

I used  4 arealight planes and the environment to light the scene. Turning off the env. sphere or any of the light planes does not make any difference.

Sven Dullah

Just to be sure I installed the new build to DS 4.7/3Delight 11 and can confirm I get the same result as above. Well...it was a long shot for sure;)

mindsong

missed the updates - thanks for that!

best,

--ms

wowie

Try these:

AWE Hair
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TY3k9Gn27ssEnsNqDoB2EhPViJU0jAFl/view?usp=sharing

AWE Surface
https://drive.google.com/file/d/154hmnGLi6xBC1Qrx3IJVnukVnfZgiCSr/view?usp=sharing

Sven Dullah

Tks wowie! Looks like the SSS works now but I still get those weird black artifacts, unfortunately.

SSS on:

SSS off:

wowie

OK. I think this will fix the problem.

AWE Surface

https://drive.google.com/file/d/154hmnGLi6xBC1Qrx3IJVnukVnfZgiCSr/view?usp=sharing

Sven Dullah

Tks a lot wowie, it sure did!

Non progressive 8x8 ps render with diffuse- reflection- and hairdepth 1, default samples...

Sven Dullah

Re-rendered at double pixelsize, no overrides, 10x10 ps, 2048 Irradiance- 256 SSS- and 256 hairsamples non progressive. Slightly adjusted light intensities and some minor postwork:

Sven Dullah

Played around a bit with motion blur. Used 4 MB samples which obviously was not quite enough in this case, so might redo... hoping the mods are ok with this, it's basically a clayrender;)

Sven Dullah

...and a re-render with some modifications like 8 MB samples, deleted the bumpmaps, tweaked specular roughness and lighting, 2048 Irradiance samples 256 SS samples, looks clean enough;)

...and, while waiting for the render to complete, playing around in GIMP...

 

Sven Dullah

Testing the new build on this character. G2M morphs transferred to G1, using a D5 skin. Fibermesh hair and beard with AWE Hair shader applied to it. Think the skin looks ok but wasn't able to get the hair to look right, kind of dull looking. Maybe should have used aweSurface instead. Specular 2 lobe was at 100%, tried various roughness values but no dice. Setting the specular 1 lobe to 100% makes the hair gray without any highlights. Turning off specular 1 makes it black, still without highlights. I also tried raising IoR but that didn't work. Any tips? Should I try AWE Surface?

Sven Dullah

...so answering my own question, I tried aweSurface on the hair and beard, using only specular2 lobe with a low roughness and 100% vertical anisotropy, and SSS. Much better IMO, atleast it's not a uniform gray anymore...

@wowie

Are there still some weird things going on with surfaces at a grazing angle or am I imagining?

wowie

Sven Dullah said:

Testing the new build on this character. G2M morphs transferred to G1, using a D5 skin. Fibermesh hair and beard with AWE Hair shader applied to it. Think the skin looks ok but wasn't able to get the hair to look right, kind of dull looking. Maybe should have used aweSurface instead. Specular 2 lobe was at 100%, tried various roughness values but no dice. Setting the specular 1 lobe to 100% makes the hair gray without any highlights. Turning off specular 1 makes it black, still without highlights. I also tried raising IoR but that didn't work. Any tips? Should I try AWE Surface?

The problem is the uv layout used by the fibermesh hair/beard you're using. Most will come with a uv similar to the base hair, instead of having the 'v' value ran along the length of the hair. This is also true with strand based hair/Garibaldi hair. Without that information, the shade will have a uniform color. Specular 1 is the main specular (R) lobe, so this is typically always enabled even when the hair color/hair color strength is 0 (zero). Most of the color will come from Specular 2 (TRT) and Translucency (TT) lobes, when the hair color/hair color strength isn't zero.

As for grazing angles, I only notice problems with normal maps.

I am still twaking the diffuse/SSS though. Wasn't entirely happy with the present build.

Sven Dullah

wowie said:

Sven Dullah said:

Testing the new build on this character. G2M morphs transferred to G1, using a D5 skin. Fibermesh hair and beard with AWE Hair shader applied to it. Think the skin looks ok but wasn't able to get the hair to look right, kind of dull looking. Maybe should have used aweSurface instead. Specular 2 lobe was at 100%, tried various roughness values but no dice. Setting the specular 1 lobe to 100% makes the hair gray without any highlights. Turning off specular 1 makes it black, still without highlights. I also tried raising IoR but that didn't work. Any tips? Should I try AWE Surface?

The problem is the uv layout used by the fibermesh hair/beard you're using. Most will come with a uv similar to the base hair, instead of having the 'v' value ran along the length of the hair. This is also true with strand based hair/Garibaldi hair. Without that information, the shade will have a uniform color. Specular 1 is the main specular (R) lobe, so this is typically always enabled even when the hair color/hair color strength is 0 (zero). Most of the color will come from Specular 2 (TRT) and Translucency (TT) lobes, when the hair color/hair color strength isn't zero.

As for grazing angles, I only notice problems with normal maps.

I am still twaking the diffuse/SSS though. Wasn't entirely happy with the present build.

Tks wowie!

Sven Dullah

Created a desert environment to test some anisotropy-, roughness- etc. maps. Also rendered out a depth pass using a simple fog camera, so a little bit of postwork.

khorneV2

 

Sven Dullah said:

Created a desert environment to test some anisotropy-, roughness- etc. maps. Also rendered out a depth pass using a simple fog camera, so a little bit of postwork.

Sven Dullah

khorneV2 said:

 

Sven Dullah said:

Created a desert environment to test some anisotropy-, roughness- etc. maps. Also rendered out a depth pass using a simple fog camera, so a little bit of postwork.

 

Tks

Sven Dullah

@wowie

Just wondering if it would be possible to add the 3DL hair BRDF to aweSurface? I figure there's a reason why you haven't done this but thought I should ask. Does it have something to do with translucency being tied to specular 1 lobe or along those lines? (Probably got it all wrong, as per usual.)

Sven Dullah

wowie said:

As for grazing angles, I only notice problems with normal maps.

I feel that something's not quite right with the current build, though. Having opened and revisited a number of (older) scenes that used to work well, now I'm suddenly getting black shading on edges...stuff like that... without using normal mapping. And older scenes where I used normal maps that worked ok won't work at all with the current build. Well that's not my main concern as you have clearly stated not to use them, just wanted you to know I'm having some issues.

On a positive note, looks like there is much less specular noise:) The metal parts here all use metalness at 100%, no diffuse. No normal maps whatsoever. The shading issue is not very obvious, looks a bit like a smoothing problem. Can't see it in OpenGL though, and turning off smoothing makes no difference.

 

Sven Dullah

...another angle, no overrides 10x10 ps non progressive render...

I took it into GIMP and checked the RGB values of those dark areas. There are a couple of pure black (0,0,0) areas, some are almost black (3.1.1). Not sure what to make of it...

Sven Dullah

Well just another test, G3F morphs, skin, hair and clothes on G1:)) And, after rendering out some more stuff with the newest build, no shading issues that I've noticed so I must have imagined the whole thing. The issues with that Rybolt scene in my previous post must be due to how I set up lighting and surfaces?

Sven Dullah

Aberration test

Mustakettu85

You sir are the king of patience :)

Sven Dullah

Mustakettu85 said:

You sir are the king of patience :)

Thank you (I think)!