Handy Dandy Question
artistb3
Posts: 188
In what way does it
for translating a V4 pose to Genesis? Does it requre V4/M4 in the scene as does PoseMaster?Handy Dandy looks at the pose as it was meant to be and translates your figure's fingers and feet to match what was intended
Also, unless I am missing something, the promo images show Genesis to "Genesis" 2 but do not show how a V4 pose translates to Genesis. Any images somewhere that will show how well this works (particularly the thumbs)? I am interested in purchasing but it would be very useful to first see how well this works on both hands and feet (V4/M4 to Genesis).
Thanks.
Post edited by artistb3 on
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i'd like to see too how it fixes hands or feet from V4 poses applied on Genesis 1, this item is in my wishlist, just wait a few more before sending it into my basket
I'm so sorry it took me so long to find this thread and reply. In most cases, V4 poses translate just fine to Genesis but occasionally the thumb will be messed up. In nearly every trial I did with Handy Dandy, the preset fixes the thumb, however a few poses just would not correct and, in fact, got worse. I simply could not figure out how to remedy those few instances and it seems to have something to do with the original poses and "raw values", which I could not work into the formulae. The V4 to Genesis 2 presets were successful in all of my trials and I am pleased with the results.
Both the M4 and V4 foot fixes worked well in every trial. I included some thigh and foot rotation changes in the M4 version to better match the leg poses to the original.
When I originally started Handy Dandy, it was only for Genesis 1 to Genesis 2, but I expanded it to include Genesis 2 to Genesis 1, V4 to both Genesis versions and M4 foot fix. When Genesis 2 Male is available, I will make sure it works with him as well and will update Handy Dandy. This is the reason the promos only show Genesis to Genesis 2 fixes. I am at my laptop right now, which does not have DAZ Studio installed, but I will make some renders of the other presets in action and post them here in the next hour or so when I get back to my work computer.
Again, sorry I did not see this earlier. Stay tuned for some renders.
Also, unless I am missing something, the promo images show Genesis to "Genesis" 2 but do not show how a V4 pose translates to Genesis. Any images somewhere that will show how well this works (particularly the thumbs)? I am interested in purchasing but it would be very useful to first see how well this works on both hands and feet (V4/M4 to Genesis).
Thanks.
No, V4 is not required to be in the scene when using the presets. Neither does Genesis or Genesis 2 when using their poses on another figure. I have calculated the differences in the joint rotations between the different figures and applied that information through a formula to translate the poses from one figure to another, so it is not necessary even to own the figure that the pose was made for in order to use Handy Dandy.
Okay, I have made some examples to demonstrate the various presets. I will divide this into 3 posts so I can describe them better.
In this first post, I have 2 examples. In each, the figure in the center (pink) is V4, the blue figure is Genesis 1 (Basic Female) and the green figure is Genesis 2 Female. The before pictures are on the left, on the right after applying Handy Dandy.
In these two examples, the pose is a V4 pose. As you can see, Genesis hands posed properly from the beginning, but Genesis 2 Hands are a bit off. Both figures' feet are pointing to the sky. After using the foot preset on both, their feet are properly posed. There was no need to use the hand preset on Genesis, so it was left alone. I applied the G1toG2 preset on Genesis 2. Why? Because, in this case, the V4 pose translated well to Genesis 1, so I treated Genesis 2 as though I were fixing a Genesis 1 pose. If I had applied the V4toG2 preset to Genesis 2, the rotations would have been too severe and the hand would look worse than if I had left it alone. If I applied the V4toG1 preset to Genesis 1, the same would have happened and her thumbs would look really strange. So, use only when necessary, basically.
The fixes are not absolute matches, just as the rest of the pose is not absolute. This is because of the differences in the figures rigging, bone lengths, etc. But as you can see, there is a much closer match to V4's original hands and feet.
In this example, the V4 hands did not translate well to Genesis or Genesis 2. And,as always, the feet did not translate well, either. So, after applying the V4 pose, I used V4toG1 on Genesis and V4toG2 on Genesis 2. I did not use the G1toG2 on Genesis 2 as in the last example because the Genesis 1 pose was not correct to begin with. The thumbs are not rotated to match V4. Also, I used the foot fix preset on both Genesis figures.
The second image is a close-up of the right hand. Again, pink is V4, blue is Genesis 1, and green is Genesis 2. The best thing to do when using Genesis 2 is to try the G1toG2 fix first, since most of the time V4 hands transfer well and this fix will be used most. Then, if it still doesn't look right, re-pose Genesis 2 and apply the V4toG2 fix instead. You must re-pose before trying a different preset because every click applies the fix to the current pose. If you have used G1toG2, then immediately use V4toG2, the effect will be added together, making the hands worse.
This final set of examples is demonstrating the M4 to Genesis foot fix. The blue figure is Genesis and the green is Michael 4. I used M4 poses in both examples. I am hoping this same foot preset will fix Genesis 2 Male feet, just as the V4 foot preset corrects both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 females. We will see :)
I also applied the V4toG1 hand fix on Genesis in these examples, just to see if it would fix a M4 hand pose. It seems to work, but I didn't want to claim that it would when putting the product together. Until Genesis 2 Male is available, I don't want to promise anything for M4 hands, but off the record, you should be able to use the V4 presets with M4 poses.
I just bought this and I have a wacky question:
HOW DO I USE IT?
I couldn't find a "readme" file anywhere, and the DIM's "info" button next to the product led me to a blank page.
Hmm, I wrote a readme, but maybe DAZ hasn't had a chance to put it in the right place. They have so many new releases to deal with this month for the PA Festival.
Anyway, the way to use it is apply your chosen pose, V4, M4, Genesis or Genesis 2... not just hand poses, full body poses too. Then click the appropriate preset (which are located under Scripts. Not my doing...) The presets only fix hands and feet, though. You may still need to adjust arms and legs, etc.
So, for example, let's say you are using Genesis 2 Female and you want to use a pose from Aiko 5. Apply the Aiko 5 pose, then double click G1toG2_R to fix her right hand, then G1toG2_L to fix her left hand. In this example, the feet should be okay, so no need to use a foot fix. If you used, instead, a pose from Victoria 4 (or Aiko 4, Stephanie 4, Girl 4, etc), use the preset V4FeetFix to fix her feet, then as in the descriptions in my previous posts, use either G1toG2_L and G1toG2_R to fix her hands, or if that doesn't work, use V4toG2_L and V4toG2_R. It all depends on the original V4 pose. Some of them mess up the hands in different ways, so you need to try both.
thanks a lot for all those explanations Slosh, now that's sure i gonna buy your product since i have several V4 poses i'd like to use in a better way with Genesis 1
Thank you Slosh for the reply. I can't comment on G1->G2, but it looks to be a useful tool for converting V4/M4->G1 poses.
In regard to the thumbs, the solution I had settled on (as quick fix) is to simply create a pose control that sets the default Left/Right Thumb 3 Twist & Side-Side parameters to zero. This usually corrects the most obvious thumb problems when using a pose developed for V4/M4.
Since I don't use G2, I wasn't aware of the problems with re-using G1 or V4 pose presets on G2. Just another in a long list of reasons why I, for one, refuse to re-invest in this figure...
Greetings,
I'm curious, if I use PoseMaster to convert poses from V4 to Genesis, would it work to use Handy Dandy to tweak them the last bit, or does this not work well with PoseMaster?
-- Morgan
I never heard of PoseMaster until two days ago, so I can't answer with any certainty. I thought my idea had never been done, and I was actually considering doing a full body Handy Dandy type thing, but wouldn't you know it... PoseMaster! I imagine, however, that any changes PoseMaster makes to the hands or feet might mess with the formula. The calculations are based on comparing the first figure's zero hand pose and the second figure's zero hand pose, then moving the fingers until they most closely match up to first's hand. The minute movements made on the second's hand are what is plugged into the script. In the case of V4 to Genesis (1), the hands already closely match up, with the only difference really being in the tip of the thumb. Handy Dandy can fix this most times, but some poses just refuse to cooperate and I haven't been able to pinpoint the reason yet. Of course, when I do, it will be updated promptly.
If PoseMaster makes adjustments to the hands, which I'm guessing it does, then some of the calculation has already been done and Handy Dandy would be starting with wrong figures in the formula. It's likely that the fingers would then be "over posed" and not look good.
So, for example, let's say you are using Genesis 2 Female and you want to use a pose from Aiko 5. Apply the Aiko 5 pose, then double click G1toG2_R to fix her right hand, then G1toG2_L to fix her left hand. In this example, the feet should be okay, so no need to use a foot fix. If you used, instead, a pose from Victoria 4 (or Aiko 4, Stephanie 4, Girl 4, etc), use the preset V4FeetFix to fix her feet, then as in the descriptions in my previous posts, use either G1toG2_L and G1toG2_R to fix her hands, or if that doesn't work, use V4toG2_L and V4toG2_R. It all depends on the original V4 pose. Some of them mess up the hands in different ways, so you need to try both.
Thanks for that, one more question though.... where do I click these things? I don't see them showing up in a folder that's easily accessible in Studio to do this clicking and double clicking.
I appreciate you helping me out. :)
They are located under Smart Content:Scripts:Utilities:Handy Dandy. I didn't put them there, and in fact on my computer I moved them to Poses. To do that, just right click on the preset (you can do several at once by ctrl-clicking to select them) and Categorize. Even though they say "Script" they will appear wherever you put them, you just have to switched to Smart Content tab, not Posing tab, to see them.
I was hoping Handy Dandy would do a better job on the V4 to G1 thumbs than Posemaster does. But alas, it seems to have similar problems. I think part of the problem is that DAZ orders some of the parameters differently for Gen4 and Genesis. For example, the displayed order for Thumb 2 for Gen4 is Twist, Side-Side, Bend. For Genesis it is Twist, Bend, Side-Side. The values that Gen4 had for Bend get put into Side-Side for Genesis, etc. I'm confused by the +/- values of the bends, too. Gen4 and Genesis seem to bend in opposite directions on thumb joints 2 and 3, but the same way on joint 1 and the hand. I may not be interpreting all of this correctly, but I hope these observations might help you improve the conversion from V4 to Genesis.
I agree completely. I've been struggling to see what the problem with the thumb is, as the same happens with Michael 4 and is why he wasn't included in the set. Maybe I will try feeding the numbers into the different channels and see if that fixes the issue.
Odd thing is, some thumb poses are not messed up in this way and Handy Dandy is able to translate them just fine. The majority, however, do seem to be a problem. One thing I have found that helps sometimes is if the V4 to Genesis preset doesn't work, then the V4 to Genesis 2 will often do the trick.
Thanks for the suggestion, and I will update this post with the results
Thanks for your fast response, Slosh. Now I am hopeful for a fix! Perhaps the ones that work have similar values in the swapped channels.
barbult, I have sent you a private message. Please reply as soon as possible.
Thanks, Brian
I just replied. I was out to dinner for a couple hours, so I just saw your message.
Hmm, I wrote a readme, but maybe DAZ hasn't had a chance to put it in the right place. They have so many new releases to deal with this month for the PA Festival.
Anyway, the way to use it is apply your chosen pose, V4, M4, Genesis or Genesis 2... not just hand poses, full body poses too. Then click the appropriate preset (which are located under Scripts. Not my doing...) The presets only fix hands and feet, though. You may still need to adjust arms and legs, etc.
So, for example, let's say you are using Genesis 2 Female and you want to use a pose from Aiko 5. Apply the Aiko 5 pose, then double click G1toG2_R to fix her right hand, then G1toG2_L to fix her left hand. In this example, the feet should be okay, so no need to use a foot fix. If you used, instead, a pose from Victoria 4 (or Aiko 4, Stephanie 4, Girl 4, etc), use the preset V4FeetFix to fix her feet, then as in the descriptions in my previous posts, use either G1toG2_L and G1toG2_R to fix her hands, or if that doesn't work, use V4toG2_L and V4toG2_R. It all depends on the original V4 pose. Some of them mess up the hands in different ways, so you need to try both.
Just curious if this will work with animate or some other motion product? And if so how? Do I have to apply fix one frame at a time?
Hmm, I honestly have no idea. I do believe it would work frame by frame, but that would be very inconvenient for you (the user). I think one would need a script that could apply the preset to each frame, sort of a batch script runner, if you will. That is not something I am familiar with at this time.
Just FYI, for anyone reading this, I have an update for Handy Dandy in DAZ QA right now, pending release. It better addresses the V4 to Genesis and Genesis 2 conversions. I have also added support for M4 poses, which is quite handy (pun intended). There will be a dedicated thread to the update release when I have heard back from DAZ.
So, I've just been playing catch up with all the genesis and genesis 2 stuff. When they had the earlier unimesh items, I had no interested. Then used Poser Pro for the most part. But recently been back playing around with Daz3d and exporting. Wished they had something like the Poser Fusion.
Well anyway, playing around with Gen and Gen2, and trying to pose them. I am really glad, that there is, "Handy Dandy" out there. Really surprised that they didn't put in a tool like that directly from the beginning. Because posing between the generations and seeing hands and feet turned in a way that is not humanly possible. Then like I asked before about the animations. Just doing a test to see how the Gen2 figure looks like in movement. In some cases the hands look fine, but almost always the feet are always messed up. So just like the autofit tool, I see a need for this tool as a standard.:-)
So, I've just been playing catch up with all the genesis and genesis 2 stuff. When they had the earlier unimesh items, I had no interested. Then used Poser Pro for the most part. But recently been back playing around with Daz3d and exporting. Wished they had something like the Poser Fusion.
Well anyway, playing around with Gen and Gen2, and trying to pose them. I am really glad, that there is, "Handy Dandy" out there. Really surprised that they didn't put in a tool like that directly from the beginning. Because posing between the generations and seeing hands and feet turned in a way that is not humanly possible. Then like I asked before about the animations. Just doing a test to see how the Gen2 figure looks like in movement. In some cases the hands look fine, but almost always the feet are always messed up. So just like the autofit tool, I see a need for this tool as a standard.:-)
It makes me feel good that you are finding use for Handy Dandy. I have all the presets saved as custom actions and loaded into a menu at the top of my DAZ Studio viewport. This way I can access them anytime and not have to dig through the content libraries to get to them.
So now that M6 is out are you going to include fixes in this or separate tool? I guess I am asking without trying. I personally haven't tried M6 yet. Just assuming that it would have similar issues as the female counter parts. Mainly asking so I have can remember to check for newer version.
Daz3d website has had some improvements to their website over the years. But there is some features over at Renderosity.com that can make a person spoiled.
1. send messages directly to vendors/artist
2. every file I ever purchased, I can easily see what has been updated and when it was updated.
3. Promos and what was used to make them. At their site, not all vendors list the items used in the promo, but the percentage that do makes this so nice. For everyone. I usually make more purchases just from seeing items used in promos. So its a win - win. Well anyway I am off topic. just was wondering if you will be doing a update.
I actually already issued an update about a month ago, though truthfully the parts to do with M6 and Gen2M were just icon changes. Handy Dandy always worked with the male figure, I just couldn't advertise it. The icons should say something like "V4/M4 to G2" and the like. The changes should already be in your runtime if you use DIM, otherwise check in your Product Library and install the latest version. And thanks for getting the set! It's always nice to hear from people when it's not a complaint :)