CGI Environments

DM3D

I've been experimenting with various environment setups for CGI renders and strategic video creation/renders. I've used curved planes with multiple images and equirectangular images to create simulated CGI environments. In the test video shown in the link, I used mcjTeleBlender to export the DAZ model to Blender where I rendered equirectangular images at various resolutions using Cycles. I also used Blender to deconstruct the model somewhat so that I could subsequently include those components in Video Copilot's Element 3D in After Effects.

Much of my final project work will be composited in After Effects using Element 3D, Equirectangular images, 3D models and HD video.

I'm hoping to do very realistic set replacement to be used with camera tracking and both live actors and/or 3D animated elements.

Any suggestions/comments are appreciated.

http://www.dalemetz.com/videoshare/cgitestjailhouse.html

Steve K

[quote author="dcmphoto" date="1378771418"... strategic video creation/renders...

What does that mean?

I watched the video, very nice. So whatever it means, it seems to work, for me, anyway.

WendyLuvsCatz

Carrara and Bryce both do spherical renders so might be an easier to use option than Blender if you do not mind a non-free alternative.
and both can use the image maps and HDRI images as 360 backgrounds, Bryce even renders HDRI

DM3D

Steve K said:

[quote author="dcmphoto" date="1378771418"... strategic video creation/renders...

What does that mean?

I watched the video, very nice. So whatever it means, it seems to work, for me, anyway.

Hello Steve,

I didn't explain that very well so great question. I'm trying to find various ways of creating realistic backgrounds and environments that work in 3D space so that I can use camera movement from tracked 2D footage and/or camera movement introduced in animations. I want these backgrounds to show reasonable parallax with camera movement and to look realistic WITHOUT having to render out those environments on a frame by frame basis.

Since Blender does have an equirectangular camera/render option for instance, I rendered the jailhouse scene as an 8K equirectangular image with 1500 passes taking well over an hour for just that one image. If I had rendered each frame with this model in place for movement, given those parameters a 1 second (24 fps) bit of footage could take over a day to render. With this environment now function as a 360 degree background/environment, it takes only minutes to render a mutlisecond camera movement in After Effects.

I know there are compromises and my goal is to figure out just when and where I can use these "strategies" while maintaining a realistic looking "set/environment" for the production.

I hope this helps to better explain my ultimate goal. I see some real potential with using equirectangular images as background environments but I want to maintain the realism in the scene as well.

Steve K

dcmphoto said:

... I'm trying to find various ways of creating realistic backgrounds and environments that work in 3D space so that I can use camera movement from tracked 2D footage and/or camera movement introduced in animations. I want these backgrounds to show reasonable parallax with camera movement and to look realistic WITHOUT having to render out those environments on a frame by frame basis. ...

Okay, I sort of understand, thanks. I watched the video again and I think you're pretty close.

I am all for reduced render times, since I participate in the 48 Hour Film contest (a five minute animation in two days). Any frame by frame rendered camera pans are usually out of the question for scenes with any complexity. So I resort to HDR spherical backgrounds (as Wendy mentioned), pans across large still renders in the video editor (the Ken Burns effect), etc. Sometimes I can add some realism with overlaid 2D effects like blowing dust, using Particle Illusion which typically renders faster than real time (really). But I'm not sure any of this gives the parallax you're after, and which might give a heightened sense of realism in some cases.

DM3D

Steve K said:

dcmphoto said:

... I'm trying to find various ways of creating realistic backgrounds and environments that work in 3D space so that I can use camera movement from tracked 2D footage and/or camera movement introduced in animations. I want these backgrounds to show reasonable parallax with camera movement and to look realistic WITHOUT having to render out those environments on a frame by frame basis. ...

Okay, I sort of understand, thanks. I watched the video again and I think you're pretty close.

I am all for reduced render times, since I participate in the 48 Hour Film contest (a five minute animation in two days). Any frame by frame rendered camera pans are usually out of the question for scenes with any complexity. So I resort to HDR spherical backgrounds (as Wendy mentioned), pans across large still renders in the video editor (the Ken Burns effect), etc. Sometimes I can add some realism with overlaid 2D effects like blowing dust, using Particle Illusion which typically renders faster than real time (really). But I'm not sure any of this gives the parallax you're after, and which might give a heightened sense of realism in some cases.

I think you understand PERFECTLY as what you described here is exactly the issues I am addressing. As a filmmaker, I have entered the 48 HFP three years running. In fact, I just completed a 48 HFP in Orlando last month. No animation though. So you know you are not limited to a 5 minute animation as you can go up to 8 minutes with credits!!! (I know you knew that but less is sure more with contest animation!. :lol:

I would enjoy considering animation for an entry one year. At his point, I have been mostly focus on set replacement. In fact, I did a Sci-Fi short with a complete virtual set. Here is a link to the short VFX reel - https://vimeo.com/69814845

I would enjoy seeing animated shorts from folks on the forum, particularly any that have entered into contest films. That might give me some perspective on just what one can accomplish in that amount of time.

Steve K

dcmphoto said:

I think you understand PERFECTLY as what you described here is exactly the issues I am addressing. As a filmmaker, I have entered the 48 HFP three years running. In fact, I just completed a 48 HFP in Orlando last month. No animation though. So you know you are not limited to a 5 minute animation as you can go up to 8 minutes with credits!!! (I know you knew that but less is sure more with contest animation!. :lol:

I would enjoy considering animation for an entry one year. At his point, I have been mostly focus on set replacement. In fact, I did a Sci-Fi short with a complete virtual set. Here is a link to the short VFX reel - https://vimeo.com/69814845

I would enjoy seeing animated shorts from folks on the forum, particularly any that have entered into contest films. That might give me some perspective on just what one can accomplish in that amount of time.

I'm usually more concerned with getting to the required four minute minimum (without credits) ... :P

The VFX reel is very cool, that kind of production would do very well in the 48HFP. Assuming, of course that you come up with a good story (the hardest part IMHO) and get it done in 2 days.

The only entry that the judges liked was "Blown Away" (actually a 48 Go Green contest, at the time a partner with the 48HFP). The theme had to be "The Earth" (meaning the soil):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN1pXYvEqIc

Other entries got some nice audience reaction, but not much from the judges: "Strange Station", "The Project", "Summer's Last Day". Links here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/SteveK77536/videos

DM3D

Steve K said:

dcmphoto said:

I think you understand PERFECTLY as what you described here is exactly the issues I am addressing. As a filmmaker, I have entered the 48 HFP three years running. In fact, I just completed a 48 HFP in Orlando last month. No animation though. So you know you are not limited to a 5 minute animation as you can go up to 8 minutes with credits!!! (I know you knew that but less is sure more with contest animation!. :lol:

I would enjoy considering animation for an entry one year. At his point, I have been mostly focus on set replacement. In fact, I did a Sci-Fi short with a complete virtual set. Here is a link to the short VFX reel - https://vimeo.com/69814845

I would enjoy seeing animated shorts from folks on the forum, particularly any that have entered into contest films. That might give me some perspective on just what one can accomplish in that amount of time.

I'm usually more concerned with getting to the required four minute minimum (without credits) ... :P

The VFX reel is very cool, that kind of production would do very well in the 48HFP. Assuming, of course that you come up with a good story (the hardest part IMHO) and get it done in 2 days.

The only entry that the judges liked was "Blown Away" (actually a 48 Go Green contest, at the time a partner with the 48HFP). The theme had to be "The Earth" (meaning the soil):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN1pXYvEqIc

Other entries got some nice audience reaction, but not much from the judges: "Strange Station", "The Project", "Summer's Last Day". Links here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/SteveK77536/videos

Thanks for sharing those...very entertaining! So you are a real veteran at animation in the 48HFP??? I don't know if I could be up to animation for that contest. I would have to really know my characters and set. Since still photos can be used in the contest, (expect in sequence to create the illusion of motion, i.e. a movie) I suppose one could render still photos of a set you intended to use just like securing a location is allowed???

My next 48 HFP venture may involve a green screen, props and some CGI and animation. Are you familiar with Elements 3D and After Effects. Elements uses a non-ray traced render engine so although the renders can be limited, they are incredibly fast. Of course the character renders would need to come form DAZ or in my case, I would prefer to export the animation renders to Blenders Cycles using mcjTeleBlender. Blender Cycles has a fairly powerful GPU renderer so it can be quite fast. It just all depends on the quality desired and a lot has to do with the scene and the lighting.

Do you know of other animation filmmakers from the forum that have entered the 48?

John Sims

I'm not entirely sure what you are suggesting would work for live action.

Generally you do a camera solve on the live action footage to establish its location/movement/Focal length etc. to place the camera within the 3D environment not the other way around.

I can see the merits in a flat backdrop plane which you could manipulate in your editor, but a whole pre rendered environment?.

If you are using the environment as a stock scene and then subsequently rendering an asset using the same camera a lights to composite you would certainly have some success there..........how would that work within the rules of a 48hr competition though?

FirstBastion

Movie Maker for DAZ Studio uses a similar 2D Full 360 degree background concept.

http://www.daz3d.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=dreamlight+movie+maker

DM3D

John Sims said:

I'm not entirely sure what you are suggesting would work for live action.

Generally you do a camera solve on the live action footage to establish its location/movement/Focal length etc. to place the camera within the 3D environment not the other way around.

I can see the merits in a flat backdrop plane which you could manipulate in your editor, but a whole pre rendered environment?.

If you are using the environment as a stock scene and then subsequently rendering an asset using the same camera a lights to composite you would certainly have some success there..........how would that work within the rules of a 48hr competition though?

Hi John...you are correct. The camera solve for 2D footage would be done first and then the camera added. BUT...if the background/environment were already rendered (from a 3D model) in high detail as in an 8K equirectangular image and used in conjunction with the 2D footage (green screen) then no rendering is required at that point. My test was to determine how realistic the movements and "scene" might look with a fully rendered equirectangular 3D model.

Did you check out my first test video using the model available on DAZ and rendered as an equirectangular image in Blender with cycles?

http://www.dalemetz.com/videoshare/cgitestjailhouse.html

Regarding the 48, they do allow the use of still images as long as they are not used sequentially to create the illusion of movement, as in stop motion or at a faster frame rate, film. Given that, the use of created equirectangular images, either rendered or photographed, should qualify.

DM3D

FirstBastion said:

Movie Maker for DAZ Studio uses a similar 2D Full 360 degree background concept.

http://www.daz3d.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=dreamlight+movie+maker

You know...I'd never even looked at movie maker. It looks VERY cool and that is definitely what I am looking to accomplish though I think I prefer the render engines of After Effects with the 3D plugin Element 3D and Blender Cycles with the character animations being exported to Blender using mcjTeleBlender.

HOWEVER...that all takes time SO, given the time constraints of the 48hfp, MovieMaker might be a way to go. I'll have to explore more about it.

Does any mix live footage and animation? I could see an opportunity using certain sets, themes or ideas to use live footage, particularly for "B" roll and intermix with animation if the animated footage were good enough. Particularly if the same scenery were used by making equirectangular background images for your animated characters to act in.

Is anyone doing this???

Steve K

dcmphoto said:

Thanks for sharing those...very entertaining!

Glad you liked them. I enjoy doing them, very engrossing if exhausting. The good thing about the 48 Hour Contest is if people like it, great, if they don't you say, "Well, we only had two days ..."

dcmphoto said:

... Since still photos can be used in the contest, (expect in sequence to create the illusion of motion, i.e. a movie) I suppose one could render still photos of a set you intended to use just like securing a location is allowed???

Yes, the rules are obviously set up with live action in mind, but that seems fair to me. I also think its fair to allow game capture video if its captured during the contest. The 48HFP folks don't agree, due only to copyright concerns. I did get some low level agreement from Rockstar (Grand Theft Auto) who said "fan videos" are OK as long as no one is making money, but they do not "pre-approve" any particular video. So 48HFP said since they sell a few "Best Of" DVD's, it could be considered "making money". I pointed out that the 48HFP folks also ran a "Machinima" contest, but they were not convinced ... :-S

My next 48 HFP venture may involve a green screen, props and some CGI and animation. Are you familiar with Elements 3D and After Effects. Elements uses a non-ray traced render engine so although the renders can be limited, they are incredibly fast. Of course the character renders would need to come form DAZ or in my case, I would prefer to export the animation renders to Blenders Cycles using mcjTeleBlender. Blender Cycles has a fairly powerful GPU renderer so it can be quite fast. It just all depends on the quality desired and a lot has to do with the scene and the lighting.

Of those, I'm only familiar with After Effects, a great program but I don't use it in the 48HFP. My video editor has some of the same effects built in, and I find it simpler to use those and avoid switching between programs. Again, time is of the essence.

Do you know of other animation filmmakers from the forum that have entered the 48?

No. In fact I can recall very few animations entered in the world wide 48HFP. Probably because it such a hopeless cause ... :-/
There was a great stop motion animation a few years back in Houston, "The Egg and Them" by Hot Pixel Action. I can't find it on the web, but here is a sample of one of their commercial efforts that shows some Lego animation. Very polished products from these guys (and several other Houston teams as well).

http://vimeo.com/50712521