[SOLVED BY UPGRADING MEMORY] New PC needed to run C8.5 Pro ~ Recommendations/Help Please?
SileneUK
Posts: 1,970
SEE POST ON PAGE 2 - Didn't need new PC after all.
Hello,
Well am truly buggered now. I am at a grinding halt almost. My scene is only 135mb but sucking memory bone dry. Have to save and close (takes forever) before reopening (takes forever again) and doing any rendering. Get maybe two renders. Bare bones...no ray-tracing, or gama or indirect lighting. Ugh.
This is what DAZ recommends for system for C8.5 Pro:
64 bit
•WHQL-64 certified
•Windows 8, 7, Vista 64 SP1
•1 GB RAM min (2 GB RAM recommended)
•600 MB free hard drive space for installation
•Hardware accelerated OpenGL 1.6 compatible graphics card with at least 512 MB RAM (OpenGL 2.2, or higher, compatible recommended)
•OpenGL 1.3 compatible graphics card with at least 128 MB RAM (Hardware accelerated OpenGL 2.2, or higher, compatible recommended with 512MB RAM)
•Drivers supporting OpenGL 1.3 or higher
•DirectX 9 (DirectX 10 recommended)
I have:
Dell Vostro 430
64-bit Windows 7
Intel i-7 processor 860 @ 280hz
4GB memory
NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240
I have cleaned the daylights out of this machine. It can't be any tidier. But it's not doing the job it's supposed to do according to their spec requirements. I have followed the helpful suggestions regarding preference settings.... nothing seems to help enough to make a useful difference, but any improvement is better than none so thanks.
I will keep this machine for my 2D design work and was thinking of getting an All In One in addition for DS 4.6 and C-8.5 Pro (Not a laptop as I have one of those but it only has 2GB memory)
Been looking at these 2 items...either any good? (These are UK model numbers) and are about the same price. Is the Core processor, memory and graphics card the main considerations? They are about the same price. Any good or do I need more muscle?
What about Windows 8 and C8.5 Pro....issues that are a problem? If so, I can roll back to a Windows 7 64-bit on a couple of tower deals. Then I'd just switch my keyboard and screen back and forth. Keyboard is on wiresless USB mouse, not a problem. Might have to fix something up for easy screen switch as I don't really have room for a second screen without going to wall mount. But I'd like the All In One as I can move that around the house.
ACER Aspire A7600U 27" Touchscreen All-in-One PC
Processor Intel® Core™ i5-3230M Processor (3.2 GHz, 650 MHz, 3 MB cache memory)
Operating system Windows 8
Storage 1 TB SATA, 7200 rpm
6 GB DDR3 (8 GB maximum installable RAM)
Graphics card NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 640M
Graphics card memory 2 GB DDR5
Motherboard Intel® HM77 Express Chipset
Screen size 27"
Screen type LED
Resolution 1920 x 1080
Touchscreen 10-point touchscreen
or
HPPavilion TouchSmart 23-f221ea 23" Touchscreen All-in-One PC
Intel® Pentium® G2030 Processor (3.0 GHz, 3 MB cache)
Windows 8
Storage 1 TB SATA, 7200 rpm
RAM 8 GB DDR3
Graphics card NVIDIA GeForce GT 710A
Graphics card memory 1 GB
Motherboard Intel H77
Screen size 23"
Screen type WLED
Resolution 1920 x 1080
Touchscreen
5-point touchscreen
Screen features
WLED backlighting
Thanks for any help/criticism.... greatly appreciated. I have to do something very soon!
:) xx SileneUK
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Comments
Hi Silene.
From my perspective, there are just a few hardware characteristics I have found critical for running Carrara. (I assume you are looking for feedback specific for Carrara; I can't speak to the specific machines you referenced.)
(1) # of cores/# of threads: I would say this has the greatest impact on rendering speed. I use one to two i7 processors, which have 4 cores and 8 threads each. I can't imagine at this point getting by with less.
-> The i5-3230M Processor has 2 cores and 4 threads.
-> The G2030 Processor has 2 cores and 2 threads.
(2) Core clock rate: The higher, the better (generally). Current technology sets clock rates over 3GHz. Also, consider systems that allow you to "overclock" to render even faster. (Also note not everyone likes to do this. I saw some recent posts on this in another thread.)
(3) Physical RAM: The more, the better. My lesser of the two i7 computers has 6GB of RAM. When I render some complex scenes, and I notice the physical memory gets close to saturation (even if I have lots of virtual memory), sometimes C8.5 crashes. (So I wouldn't put much stock in DAZ's "minimum requirements" list!) Further, C8.5 is a hungry memory beast. So I've gone to using my 16GB system for most rendering.
(4) Graphics Card: For me, this has had little effect on C8.5's performance. I could be wrong, but C8.5 doesn't even seem to use the most recent high-end cards' capabilities. E.g., many new cards can generate near render-quality images onboard with little CPU overhead. I have a high-end card in my bigger computer, and in complex scenes, moving the camera in the Assemble room still drags things to a crawl (screen refresh every 1-2 seconds), so I don't put much into that just for C8.5. (Maybe someone has a different perspective on this.) You should verify you have DirectX10 and latest OpenGL loaded.
The rest (screen size, resolution, touchscreen, weight, noise, etc.) is personal preference and what you are willing to pay for.
As for Windows 8, I have chosen to stick with 7. I've heard it is more stable and secure than 8 (but again, just what I heard).
I would think your current machine should be adequate, as it about matches my 2nd i7 machine. 4 CPUs/8 threads at 2.8GHz (and up to 3.46GHz if you can overclock it). You might be (IMHO) better served getting more RAM for that machine.
I'm not sure "throwing money at the problem" will solve all your problems. Carrara has been running happily on much lower specs for over a decade....
Tips for cleaning out your scene (sorry if you know this already, not trying to insult you or anything, but also for the benefit of others reading...):
Under the EDIT menu --> REMOVE UNUSED MASTERS: clean all the unnecessary files from your scene before saving. Remove Objects, remove Shaders - in that order.
Under the PREFERENCES --> IMAGING, SCRATCH DISC: keep spooling ON, but set the reserved memory very low, very very low. This was an old feature that helped to unload RAM memory to your hdd - back when 512MB of RAM was large... Today it almost always works slower to overuse the HDD...
Virtual memory writes and reads to the HDD constantly. If your HDD spins at a lower speed (many "low end" laptops and budget desktops have 5200rpm HDD...). If you have an SSD drive or a faster HDD Carrara will be noticeably faster in rendering.
A better Graphics Card in your computer will speed up the assembly and shader rooms, but will not speed up or help with rendering. Rendering takes place entirely on the CPU.
Other tweeks to your scene file (in the Assembly Room, under the UP ARROW button: 3D Preview Settings) like lowering the texture resolution will make the assembly and shader rooms lighter (does not effect final render).
Displacement is a memory killer. Use it sparingly. Ocean and Terrain are basically displacement on a special primitive. Using them WITH a displaced model can be lethal and use to crash my 32bit PC all the time. My Macs handled it better, but had other memory issues.... 64bit *should be better* but... YMMV
You *may* have a mystery item in your scene that is corrupted or causing problems. If saving/loading the scene lingers at a specific percentage everytime, that is some specific item in the scene. Unfortunately, finding it is a matter of trial and error. You can try deleting suspected items from the scene (and use the EDIT --> REMOVE menus) and see if your scene magically performs better. It can be a corruption, so it may work differently in another scene....
Hope that helps! Would rather you try some basic Carrara rulez-of-thumb before running out and spending hundreds on a new machine and it not solve the problem....
Hi laurenwbr.
Agree with holly. There might be something in the scene slowing things down or causing issues. Your system should be able to handle Carrara. I have an old single core CPU w/AGP & 2GB ram system, but Carrara still runs smooth on it. I have Texture Spooling OFF all the time. If other programs are showing issues with slowing down, then there is an OS or other program(s) interfering.
Hello to the OP. I build my own desktop systems, and have done this for over 20 years now. I typically get about five years out of a workstation before I feel the need to upgrade.
Here are some of my thoughts. They may be worth no more than what I am charging you for them, so take them with a grain of salt. :coolsmirk:
1. Your current system:
I could not tell by your post if your system is dogging (slow) because it is old or because it may be sluggish due to other things you have installed. What other software do you have installed? Do you have games? What antivirus do you use?
I do not recognize your CPU model number, so I assume it is older. The new Ivy Bridge CPUs from Intel are quick and they also run efficiently when at rest, generating less heat and using less electricity.
2. Thoughts about new systems:
CPUs:
It is true that your rendering performance will be limited by your CPU. More cores = more concurrent rendering. Faster cores (expressed in "gigahertz") = faster rendering. Together, both will reduce the amount of time it takes for your computer to render a scene or animation.
Some people feel that i3 or i5 processors with 2 or 4 cores would be plenty for 3D art and animation. I completely and wholeheartedly disagree, and I would never put an i3 or i5 processor into a machine that was going to do a fair amount of rendering. My time and labor is far far more limited (and therefore more valuable to me) than anything else at this point, therefore I am willing to spend more money for more (and faster) cores, at least up to a point.
I currently have a Core i7 system with a single CPU that has 6 cores / 12 threads and runs at 2.4 GHz. My CPU is the older "Sandy Bridge E" type, which has been available now for about 2 years or more. Rendering is fast, but I am not rendering with a lot of settings turned on (yet). It should be noted that CPU will always be THE MAIN bottleneck during rendering, especially for motion video where you may be rendering 24 images for each second of video content. Because of this, I feel that my 12-threaded system may not be powerful enough long-term, therefore, I am already thinking of building a server just for distributed rendering. I plan to build that machine sometime in the next 6-12 months, and it will have as many fast cores as I can afford. Ideally, I would build a 2 processor Intel Xeon E5 system, and each processor would have a minimum of 8 cores / 16 threads. Maximum is 12 cores / 24 threads, but those processors run $2,500 to $2,700 USD. Each! I am willing to spend money on my equipment, but even I don't fancy spending over $6,000 just on CPU and motherboard when there is so much else I want to do these days.
The AMD server processors are a very real alternative. 16 core AMD Opteron CPUs can be had for $800-$900 each, but will perform somewhat slower and won't save as much energy when in idle. As with most things in life, the best choice is different for everybody but can usually be arrived at by simple mathematics and prodigious savings habits.
Another possible alternative would be to employ the use of a "paid rendering farm". There are a few companies out there that maintain render farm data centers. They have all the main renderer engines available and they simply charge you by the processing power your project uses, or maybe there's some sort of set graduated fee schedule based on priority of your project. If I were to pursue such a path, then I might consider breaking one of my rules above and downgrade to an i5 processor. Well, probably not me. But it could be justified. For other people. :cheese:
RAM:
I have 64 GB RAM. I bought that much for purposes other than art, and because I could afford the price. If I were to build a serious 3d art and rendering system right now without other requirements, I probably would go with 32 GB memory as my minimum. When I build my rendering server, (since it will have only the remote rendering software and not the bulky editing/creation software on it) I probably could get away with 16 GB to 24 GB. It all depends on memory prices and available funds at the time I decide to begin that project.
Operating System:
I run Windows 8 Pro 64 bit. I participated in the public preview program in late 2012 and decided pretty quickly that it is far and above better than even Windows 7; mostly for technical, "under the cover" reasons. I also picked Windows 8 for audio processing and because it is stable. Windows 8 is also more secure than Windows XP or Windows 7. If building a new system, I would go with 8 again. When I build my rendering server, I will probably run Windows 8 Pro 64 bit on it too, because Windows Server is so very expensive. I do not like the "Start Screen" thing on Windows 8 because it is too disorganized for me, so I have installed a free product called "Classic Start". The missing start button and no start menu were the worst things I found with Windows 8, and as noted above, those can be replaced by Classic Start (among other products).
I like Windows 8 and have no trouble with it. I would not hesitate to recommend it to family and friends.
Graphic Card:
I use a card made by "HIS". My card uses an AMD HD7970 GPU which is pretty powerful. Carrara doesn't need nearly that kind of power, but this card actually allows me to plug in up to 6 monitors, and that was one of my primary reasons for choosing this card. For my rendering server, I plan to buy fast graphic cards if I end up using a remote rendering engine that can take advantage of GPUs for rendering (in addition to the CPUs), so I will make sure that the server motherboard will support at least two graphic cards. I do not have an allegiance to either AMD or Nvidia, and will probably choose my GPUs for the server based mostly on my animation needs.
If you buy a newer CPU from Intel or AMD and both the CPU and motherboard support a thing called "on board graphics", then you won't need a graphic card if you don't want one.
Hard Drive:
I use a mixture of hard drives and solid-state drives on my systems. SSDs are quiet, fast, small, and they run cool. They are great choices for laptops and desktops alike. They can really speed up a system, and are coming down in price. If your project data or Poser/DS content folders are not in the terabyte range, then an SSD could work for you.
Note that I still use spinning hard drives to hold my backups. Everybody should be backing up their data. Fair warning: I mock people who don't. :coolgrin:
Whatever your decision, good luck!
With only 4 gig of ram available and using windows 7 a large portion of your memory is being used by your system. This is part of where others are saying older systems are running just fine with Carrara older operating systems use less memory. Newer operating systems like Windows 7 need and expect the system to have a lot of Ram. ( Windows 7, an Antivirus program and just a gew others could be using up to half of your available memory just to start)
Example I am on a simple windows XP system right now not much running and looking at my memory usage in the task manager. I have a several explorer pages open and am using up 3.2 gig of memory. Look at what your system is using. Start there and maybe a simple memory upgrade will help solve the problem.
If you still want to buy a new system:
As stated Processor power and number of cores = rendering power.
Grapic cards = redraw and refreash rates. ( the amount of objects you can have on the screen at one time and move around you scene. Things get jerky without enough graphic card power. ( this is my current problem) )
a good marker for what type of system to by for the money is to look at the Cinebench scores for different processors. This will tell you how much bang for the buck you will get.
There is a lot of info here in this thread and most is pretty spot on. Trying to make this simple because getting or making a new comp really is not such a simple decision.
If I was building another comp for Carrara right now I would want at least
Economy build 8 gb Ram
Standard build 16 GB ram
Luxury build 32-64 GB ram
Econ build CPU choice of AMD FX series 6 or 8 cores or Intel i5
STandard build Intel i7 series 4 or six cores
luxury build xeon or amd operterons with 16- cores (I believe we have limits now of 10 real 20 threads for each c8.5 you have without getting GRid so not so sure now what I would do )
Econ GPU gtx650 with 2gb vid ram (Im more a nvidia fan)
standard gtx760 with 2 gb vid ram
lux gtx760 with 4 gb vid ram
The keys to focus on are really:
system ram---- with Carrara and any 3d app its really difficult with 4GB to do much----
Video cards are what makes you move about when you are setting up the scenes etc ---- I cannot recommend using one with less than 2gb video ram for 3d if you are buying new.
The cpu is really more of how long your renders take not whether you can create the scene . So its really a pocketbook issue the more actually cores or threads the better. Keep in mind AMD and Intel cores are not the same power given the same speeds due to architecture (AMD are slower but offset by cheaper) .
anyhow some of my thoughts
Rich
Thank you SO VERY MUCH...FD, Holly, tbwoq, Subtropic, Paul and Rich!
I am overwhelmed with the time you all took to give help and advice.
Am struggling with sciatica today...worse some days than others which might account for my frustration in dealing with this computer mess. MRI scheduled, and in the meantime I do have some nice painkillers, but they seem to make me "stupid" as well.
Will work my way through each posting to try all of the suggestions for my current system. Will have to do that as my comfort allows.
I did remove unused shaders/objects, but had not consolidated shaders. That reducded the file by 30mb. So that it's about 100mb now. I also removed all the cave structure, but that didn't make much difference in file size, maybe 8mb. It was a DAZ purchase of East and West Steppes. Sorry, am on laptop so don't have author's name, etc handy. I went back to spooling off after trying Holly's suggestion as it did affect starting up rendering.
Every character is a form of two main characters I'd morphed from Genesis V4/V5 and M4/M5 (started with 4 before I got 5 in the Pro Bundle). There are 8 in the scene (see image). The children were created by using parameter sliders. So consolidating the shaders made a difference. Am only making still scenes, no vid. Each character is saved in my browser and checked file size. Each one averages about 10-12mb. So that x 8 is giving me pretty much the 100mb. Double checked my customised textures, eg eye colour, gleam, the tundra scene, which I did in PS. Wanted to make sure I didn't have a 20mb tif or something with layers in there. None...had converted all to lower res flattened pngs.
Then I removed hair. Everyone had hair. Head, eyebrows, beards, clothes were hides with fur on all but the blonde baby. Removing all hair actually did not make any real difference in the file size, loading/saving time, or rendering which surprised me. It's time and memory consumption for loading/saving that is my biggest problem. For rendering, time isn't too bad if I don't use indirect lighting, raytrace etc. since am still building, but rendering of course devours memory.
Am going to go back to my other machine later today and look up some more info on the system and refer back to all this great info to see how things stand. I hate that system info seems to use javascript so you can't copy and paste it like with Windows XP...grrr. Will have to make screenshots or copy down.
I use Kasperky anti virus. Yes it uses a lot of memory as do most avps do now. I use Adobe Creative Suite for all my 2D, web/Flash work on this machine since I got it in 2009. My monthly magazine layout files can be 60mb and Illustrator/InDesign just whizz though them. PS performs great unless I have Carrara open at the same time.
When I can bend down again...am going to pull out my cpu and see how many slots I have to add memory. Am sure I can put another 4gb in there. Can't find my paperwork from purchase which would have that on there. It's old so hard to find the config anywhere on the internet. Adding another Hard Drive. Never done that before. I have a 500GB Freecom external hard drive where all my created Carrara scene files live along with their customised character and other textures that are not over in Programs for C8.5 Pro or DS Content in DAZ Library in Pub Docs C: drive. I tried that vs having my created .car files on the C: drive to see if it helped. Not really sure. When I right click on the C: drive it says I have. 688GB, 125 used, 563 free.
IF I get a new system, how does DAZ know to let me download another copy of C8.5Pro. Does it detect an activated serial number? I've not uninstalled and moved to another machine before. Have uninstalled and reinstalled to the same machine and the serial number just comes through on its own. I was surpised at that because as an experiment I downloaded the 32bit version and it showed up with the same serial number on the same machine. Does that mean unlimited programme downloading ? If I don't use RenderNote, should I uninstall it? Not sure if I am asking this correctly...
Thank you all again so very very much. This is a wonderful community and you should all be very proud, not just as accomplished artists, but for helping others!
:) :) :) (Those are Tramadol smiles!)
Cheers, xx SileneUK
Silene-
Looking at the model specs of the dell vostro 430 ---it appears you have 4 dimm slots for ram. Now I am guessing but i bet Dell put in 4 --- 1 gb ram modules in each one as that's the cheapest way for them to get to 4gb.
I really think a huge boost for you would be starting here. It says you can use ddr3 1066 or 1333 mhz speed ram modules up to 4GB each per slot.
I am not familiar with the UK computer parts marketplace ----here in states I would direct you to newegg.com to look.
If it was me I would look to buy additional ram ----some cautions --dell often has parts of its own design and one has to be careful adding things not sold by dell.....which is their way of making loads more money.
I see on my new egg site that kingston memory sells a dell specific ram chip. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139561. and this by crucial memory http://www.crucial.com/upgrade/Dell-memory/Vostro+Desktops/Vostro+430+Mini+Tower-upgrades.html
Theset might be ones to look at and get 8 GB as a mininum so it gets you 10GB as you will need to discard 2 modules as if in fact dell put in 4 x 1 gb as i guess. Also sometimes mixing and matching ram modules does not work well so you may have to just start new adding 2 or 4 x 4gb modules.
Not sure if you ever tinkered inside your computer case much or how daring you want to be--but ram installation is not so bad. You can watch a youtube video or two if you are not familiar. Just search adding ram to comp and look around. There are a few things I would highlight. Always unplug your comp from, the outlet or better powersupply in comp. If you are not going to use a anti static arm thingy ----(which I have never and never had a problem) do the installation on a non- carpeted bare surface. Do it barefoot. Do not wear anything wool. touch the powersupply and clap your hands before touching the ram chip and every new module you work with. And for your firstime if it is yes you have to apply a little force so as long as you align the chip to the cutout knotches and you apply an even force on equal sides of the top of the modules and push down you will feel it eventually "snap" in and the two sides levers you open will close completely.
Of course yuo can always go to some computer service place and they will be happy to do this for a price but no matter how you get to 8gb of ram or more I think this will help you loads.
The other thing I notice on your specs is the video graphic chipsets or cards are probelmatic as well........it looks like the best you can have from dell would be 1mb video ram which looks like what you said you had-----and that might be another bottleneck that still is there no matter if you had 16gb of system ram. And the power supply might be limiting how powerful a video card you can add to replace. The more powerful the video card the higher the watt requirements are. I think yours is 350 watts so that really is pretty small is the realm of add on video cards which many need 450 watts or more .
So what I am saying in all this ---you may have option to raise the ram to GB which would be very helpful to making thing runs better in Carrara but the video card issue is still going to be somewhat limiting as you have only 1gb video ram on a rather ok video card as far as power goes. And the only way to a better video card would be replacing the dell power supply which is very tricky as in the past I know their mobos and psu had unique conections only to dell.
Anyhow just thought I would give you some more info just to give you a clearer look at what you were dealing with. (maybe not so clear)
Rich
Exactly and the luxury build for the Xeon. With 64 gig and all trimming is 5000 and that's for a e5 2630 so you get 12 processors and 24 threads. This is what I am looking at building. Just finished my research on this. But I think you could get away with just memory upgrade. Just make sure you research what ever you decide to do
Thanks for that update. I kept spooling on base on recommendations years ago ( C6, I think ). I will turn it off now. :)
Daz does not limit the number of times you can download, AFAICT. You will just go into you acct Item List and filter for Carrara. All the downloads should show up.
I generally just copy all of Carrara (especially all the installed plugins) over to my new computer, then enter all the serial numbers one by one. Carrara doesn't spy on you. There is no penalty for having it on two different computers (or mixed platform computers either). Somewhere there is a secret text document that is all your settings, preferences, and serials - that is how your computer "remembered" Carrara's serial number.... In theory you could find that and copy it to the new computer also, but I don't bother.... I have a LOT of plugins so it becomes a bit of a ritual to re-enter all the plugin serials. LOL
Thanks everyone for the specs info and possibilities.
Found my order paperwork. I don't have the receipted copy as I bought it through the shop I used to work for full time (and still work for from home) and the owner has the receipt as I got it without paying VAT (sales tax).
From what my order sheet says I have memory installed as follows:
2 of the 4 slots have 2048 @ 1333mhz DDR3 Single Channel to make up my 4GB
I am a bit puzzled as to why I didn't get 3 for 6GB as it would have been less than £40 ($60) to do so...doh?
I can have (as suggested by you):
Fill the remaining 2 slots with 4096 @ 1333mhs DDR 3 Single Channel for an additional 8GB + my current 4GB to get 12GB
Or
Take out the original 2 slots which total 4GB and replace in each slot the 4096 as above for a total of 16GB
I have upgraded and swapped out memory before in the shop's machines which were all Dell's at the time. I found aftermarket cards online that were Dell compatible. Transcend comes to mind. Will look shortly.
Found this about 3DDR Single Channel
http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pedge/en/server-poweredge-11g-white-paper.pdf
And comments here from a 3D modeller back in 2010 which was interesting... read the few posts to the end where he made an experiment
http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/desktop/f/3514/p/19337001/19714264.aspx
OK am off to look for memory now and will post what I find.
Cheers to you all... am a bit slow functioning but very excited that a solution may be at hand that won't cost the earth! Speaking of earth (ground to you in the US). I am VERY careful when tinkering with electrics/electronics as we are on 240 vs 110!
:) :) :) (more Tramadol!)
xx SileneUK
This from that white paper from Dell link in previous post:
Memory Selection
With all of these new choices, there are some questions around how to best configure a system. While each user’s needs differ, there are some general guidelines around highest performance and high capacity.
High Performance
For a design which maximizes bandwidth, use DDR3 1333MHz memory across all three channels per CPU. Due to the frequency limitations shown above, this speed can only support 1 DIMM per channel, and thus a maximum of 3 DIMMs/CPU. Also, no quad-rank DIMMs may be used. At time of launch, dual rank 4GB RDIMMs provide the highest capacity at 1333MHz and will provide 12GB/CPU system capacity. Be aware that RDIMMs will provide a higher throughput during heavy utilization than UDIMMs.
Balanced Performance
The system should still be populated with DIMMs across all three channels, but 1066MHz DIMMs may be used and can be populated with two DIMMs per channel. 48GB/CPU may be achieved by installing dual-rank 8GB 1066MHz RDIMMs.
High Capacity
At the time of launch 8GB RDIMMs are the highest capacity being offered. By using the dual-rank 8GB 1066MHz RDIMMs, 72GB/CPU system capacity may be achieved. Note that since each memory channel will have 3 DIMMs installed, the system will automatically down-clock itself to 800MHz. We do not expect 800MHz based RDIMMs to be readily available during or after launch.
.
OK have found: (might as well go for the two pairs of 4GB each to get the 16MB, yes? Does that agree with their comments above?
http://www.mrmemory.co.uk/memory-ram-upgrades/model/Dell~Vostro+Desktop~430
Device Specifications
Make & Model: Dell Vostro Desktop 430
Memory Type: 240-pin DDR3 PC3-10600 1333MHz
Slots / Banks: 4
Standard Memory: 1GB
Maximum Memory: 16GB
Important Information:
To purchase a 'kit of 2 or 4' modules for dual channel mode,click the 'Add to Basket' button and change the quantity to 2 or 4 respectively.
When you install 4GB or more into a machine with a 32-bit version of Windows the amount of usable memory (RAM) available will vary between 3GB and 3.5GB - More information
Mr Memory recommends buying a matched pair.
90% of our customers choose 2 or more modules.
Dell Support Link: http://support.euro.dell.com/support/index.aspx
Installation Videos: See below for generic memory installation videos.
To find a more specific memory installation video for your Dell Vostro Desktop 430 please search on YouTube.
Warranty, Brand
& Compatibility: Free Lifetime Warranty.
Single Module Price
4GB £31.20 (£37.44 inc. VAT) total of about £150
or better price and I have Amazon Prime and can get by Tuesday if they aren't faffing around about 1 left in stock
ETA just noticed the DIMM label. But it says it's compatible....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003OSYW1S/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&psc=1&s=computers
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Size chosen from drop down menu (without HS..what would that for a Vostro mean?)
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Only 1 left in stock (more on the way).
Dispatched from and sold by Amazon. Gift-wrap available.
Want it by 1pm Tuesday, 1 Oct.? Order it within 20 hrs 57 mins and choose Express Delivery at checkout. Details
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•For gaming / performance memory 9-9-9-25
•Komputerbay provides lifetime warranty
HARD DRIVE CAPACITY: Now I think I just have the 500GB Serial ATA non Raid (7200rpm) and not the normal 1TB 3.5 inch serial ATA No Raid 7200rpm one that was included in the price. Maybe I was trying to save a bit...doh.
How to augment that.... or should I bother as I have a same size external hard drive? Have not installed anything like that before.
GRAPHICS CARD will have to do some more reading of the posts here and such. That is going to be a more pricey item than upgrading memory I think. I have changed my graphics cards in the past. This Vostro originally came with a GForce220 which was rubbish and due to so many customer complaints, they replaced it with the GTS240 without charge and shipped it and I put it in myself, but it's still an average grade card, even by 2009 standards.
OK, time for medication! Again, thanks for all the help.
:) SileneUK
Silene--
you have gone to researching in a big way! Smiles. Anyhow --yes a lot of memory is put in as pairs ....Buying a 4 x 4 gb kit is the best you can do for your comps motherboard and what I would so if it was me .The HS means heatsink and its a kind of additional piece of metal attached to the modules to help disburse the heat generated by the modules. It is better to have them on the modules. The kit you referenced here-- not sure if its specially talked about compatability with your vostro. I did not read all the cust reviews but I always like to see a review by someone who has my same motherboard as its the best way to know compatibility. Ram is notorious a issue getting the ram to work well . It sometimes gets tricky and why Its always wise to buy where the vendor specically states it works in your model or you see some customer reviews from folks with your model and they have no issues.
Also you have a 64 bit windows so you can access 16GB of ram with win 7 --if you had 32 bit version yes you could never see more than 3.2 gb ram. So you are ok there.
As I previous wrote on the video card --you are in a slight jam there because of the power supply wattage. I do not think you can put in much more than you have. And once you start changing PSU your cost are starting to add up.
Now if you just add the 16gb of ram that should help a lot and I think you should be able to get by with the video card you have. It would be better if you could upgrade that aspect but you might find that the ram boost alone makes things a lot more fun.
Hard drives wise your fine for a while --its only a capacity thing. Obviously a 1 TB drive has twice the storage of the 500 GB but you can always push stuff to the external as it fills up.
Rich
Another tip for preventing corrupted scenes and to make faster load times is to NOT save as a compressed scene. Also avoid saving internally. My personal preference is to save locally. Carrara references any texture maps, but leaves them in place.
Hi Rich and EP,
Ack, just wrote a nice long reply and hit the wrong key and whoosh...gone.
Rich, I went ahead and got the 4 x 4, so it should come tomorrow. Will get some help in hefting the CPU around but will fit the memory OK I think. I didn't get the HS...as I wasn't sure what it meant. All in all, I did check that the item from Mr. Memory is suitable for Dell Vostro 430 as they have a checking widget on their site.
EP,
I have saved uncompressed, but the files are HUGE. Maybe it's just my poor memory but it didn't help. I do always save locally. I do wish that when you updated a texture or something, that the linked file automatically reloaded in the Shader room. Otherwise you have to navigate there and reload. Sometimes on a big file the texture did not look updated back in the Assemble room. So I'd have to go back to the Shader room and re-link the file or in some cases save and then reopen the .car file to see the changed texture appear. Again, maybe it's the poor memory I'm struggling with.
So going from 4gb to 16gb I hope will do the trick. There are so many things I want to learn to do and it's not possible at the snail's pace I've been stuck at. Fingers crossed!!!
Thanks again for all the great advice and encouragement! And for helping me save £££ by upgrading vs getting new kit.
:) :) :) SileneUK
ETA: I know that I left off redoing the post. I downloaded the 32bit to this laptop which has 2gb memory and found I could only open files that were less than about 20mb. These files are all Genesis-heavy. But I only had one Genesis character in the file and some braided head pieces and a costume. So am wondering if it's just files with lots of Genesis figures that are so demanding of processing memory vs maybe a huge file that was mostly vertex models or non-Genesis figures?
Maybe a quicker way to refresh the shader is to close the file and reopen it so Carrara references it again. Depends on what's in the scene though.
Hopefully with more memory I can do that. At the moment it's takes 5 mins to save and almost the same just to open this 100+/-mb file. Ugh.
:) SileneUK
Sorry for coming in so late... don't get to the internet much right now.
As far as building and/or buying, I built my own very easily, but with a lot of for thought and searching the web for reports on everything I considered for my build. I'm not looking for perfection in Benchmark tests... but I am looking for glaring reports of returned as junk style reports. The same process should really be taken for a 'bought' computer, too... especially in this case where you're looking for something that can give that render engine a good spanking and get it to slice through with little effort!
I have written a couple of articles with my considerations I've used for both situations to help in this area. I did this because I used to think along the lines of getting a great power-gamer PC - if it can crank out the latest games, it'll be perfect for Carrara. But that is almost opposite... but not quite. While a nice graphics card is really nice to have - especially if you figure out how to look at what OpenGL wants from it.
Anyways, here's those articles:
► How to Build Your Own Carrara Workstation
► Buying a Workstation
More points that I didn't see above - but I am admittedly in a rush:
I seem to remember a discussion a while back on either displacement or subsurface scattering, but I can't recall if it had to do with your scene here, but just in case. Both displacement and subsurface scattering can really bog down a render as well.
This is the spec sheet of your Quad Core, 8 thread (Should render very fast!!!) CPU and your other specs look great too, but like paulg625 says above, your 4GB RAM my want an upgrade. Calling Dell with the number from the back of the computer will get you help with how you can do that. It all depends on what motherboard you're using, and Dell knows that by the Dell # on the back. In my experience, I've never yet seen my system use more that just over 7GB of my 16GB. But I try to optimize all the time. I'm kind of coo coo about that stuff. Always trying to make my renders faster.
None of the videos you might have seen of mine use higher settings than Anti Aliasing = Fast, Object Accuracy = 2, Shadow Accuracy = 4, and I default with refraction turned off up on the top of that tab. But I do a lot of other things too. Some plant models I've used in the past, for example, would be total dogs in the render speed. Replacing them with something else just as cool fixed the problem so I eventually learn what renders fast and what doesn't. And I almost always try to fix anything that renders slowly.
Speaking of that, "Translucency" in shaders was a big thing that I've found to slow down renders - but can really make them look eons better - so sometimes you have to trade speed for shear coolness! Many shaders for the clear parts of eyes and such can include refraction and relfection and, while it helps make stuff look better, sometimes having a bright highlight with a lower shininess (0 - 33) can make all the look you need for that. 33 would make super small sparkle, if anything at all - depending on distance from the camera and such - and 0 can wash light across the whole surface - so I like using that with lower values (darker) in the highlight for a nice, soft sheen. I'll often replace reflection entirely with this technique as long as speed is what I need, and unless a reflection is truly what I need.
High resolution settings will also drag your render time to a crawl. Try not to set it higher than you need. I've found a huge difference when going from 720p (1280 x 720) to 1080p, for example.
Oooops. Babbling again.
Thanks, Dart for the input. I know you have been away...busy drinking beer!! Sorry, I know you have had more serious issues as well and hope things are better now.
Am waiting for the postie to delivery my memory. Machine is sitting on the "operating" table, innards exposed just waiting for new brain cells. (Hmmmm...wish I could have that done) :)
I will check the file for the displacement, sub-surface scattering and transparency when all is back together. I do have transparency for sure. And will check modelling/render levels. Hopefully the 16gb vs having 4 will solve having to use more workarounds. Render "time" isn't too bad when I can get it to render and not get the horrid "Error Occurred...bollox". Worse was the saving and opening time actually. Doing work on a scene, then finding I'd sucked memory dry when I would try to save ...getting that "Error Occurred White Executing Save" which meant after any operations I done, they weren't going to be saved at all.
Fingers crossed.... I hope I can get the memory installed and have things up and running by tomorrow.
Cheers!
And to all who chimed in to help... it doesn't get any better than having this kind of help and enthusiasm.
xx :) SileneUK
Best of luck Silene......I really do think most of your issues will get removed once you install the extra Ram.
Rich
I agree with Rich here.
The rest of your specs look perfect. You have eight cores - four literal cores and four virtual cores. Intel magic!
I have eight cores and 16 GB RAM. Soon you'll have 16 GB RAM. I think you'll be much happier. I have never actually run out of memory.
There was a thing a while back on folks (like me! lol) cranking up the spooling in preferences. Don't do that! With 16 GB RAM, no spooling do you need young lady! Let that RAM do it - it's a LOT faster than having a switch send if over to a hard drive instead.
There are many things that can bog down renders, however, even on supercomputers!
WOO HOO! Doing the happy dance here!
Slotted in 4 of those lovely 4gb modules and am literally FLYING with my 16mb now!
I used to wait up to 5 mins to open or save my 100mb file. Now they open and save in under a minute!
Rendering with indirect light, raytrace, gama correction, all the goodies work as fast as when I had to do it bare bones.
When I check performance under Task Manager, I still have oodles of free memory left instead of it sucking down to 1 or 0 even. And in processes Carrara is using just the same hungry memory as before, but am not slowed down now or getting any error messages, etc.
I think as one of the helpful posters on this thread said... DAZ is listing system requirements that are not realistic to do the job. I was OK in 8.1, got slower in Beta 8.5, but when I went to Pro....it all came to a halt.
Hope a spooky or someone can get this sorted as I think it was really the root cause of the problem... I did not have enough memory.
Everything else I have is fine.... and my Creative Suite is performing much faster...even though I never really had a complaint about it before, it's amazing now.
For about £150 ($200 approx.) problem solved. Cheaper than buying a new setup, that was a life-saver.
Now, what can Liz serve you today!? :) xx SileneUK
Great news! Glad your problem got solved, and that it cost you less than expected. We all need more of that combo.