January 2019 - Daz 3D New User Challenge - Composition
DAZ_ann0314
Posts: 2,849
New User's Challenge - January 2019
Sponsored by DAZ 3D
Are you new to the 3D World? Are you at the beginning stages of learning 3D rendering? Have you been around for a little bit but feel you could benefit from some feedback or instruction? Have you been around awhile and would like to help other members start their creative journey? Well then come and join the fun as we host our newest render challenge!
"Composition"
This is a general render challenge with the focus on how you compose your image. We are providing you with lots of great links on Composition from a variety of sources. Composition is key to pulling a viewer into your image and leading their eye to where you want them to see things. It is a fundamental skill that we, as artists, not only need to learn, but will continue to hone over the years. Read about and look at the examples, in these articles, for how composition works and how artists, from the Masters to people like you and me, put these compositional guidelines to use to make our pieces more appealing and invite the viewer to look around your image as you intended.
General Composition Rules:
http://design.tutsplus.com/articles/5-fundamental-skills-every-artist-should-master--psd-28054
The Golden Ratio:
https://holycrop.wordpress.com/tag/golden-spiral/
https://designschool.canva.com/blog/what-is-the-golden-ratio/
http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/golden-ratio-in-moden-designs/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A3JnWzgXGk
Some Tools for DS and Bryce:
Golden Rules Camera Prop v1.5 by Jaderail
Golden Rules Composition Helpers for Bryce by David Brinnen and Horo
Artists, filmmakers and photographers share similar traits in how we present our work, so you will find that a study of the art of photography will help, which is why you see various links to photographic articles included.
Photography Composition:
http://digital-photography-school.com/5-elements-of-composition-in-photography/
http://digital-photography-school.com/5-more-elements-of-composition-in-photography/
Color can be used as a compositional element, especially when you have color contrast. Here are some fundamentals on color:
Color Fundamentals:
http://www.tigercolor.com/color-lab/color-theory/color-theory-intro.htm
Other Types of Contrast:
http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/composition_contrasts/composition_contrasts.htm
http://photoinf.com/General/NAVY/Contrast_and_Framing.htm
Examples of Composition:
http://www.cybercollege.com/comp_ex.htm
http://www.cybercollege.com/comp_ex2.htm
http://www.pinterest.com/dawnshiree/rules-of-composition/
This is a bit of a long read but offers excellent examples of different kinds of composition and camera angles.
The Cinematography of "The Incredibles"
Prior Composition Challenges:
January, 2018
Daz Tutorials
I will be checking in as will the rest of the Community Volunteers to try and help with anything you all may need.
For a list of the current challenge rules, please see this thread : Challenge Rules
Closing Date: January 31st 2019
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Comments
So cool, the first tip in this video Scene Set Up Tips wil save me so much time!
THX for posting it!
You aren't joking! I'm going to wear out my Alt key now, I had no idea it was that useful in Daz.
Fresh from the GPU
Pondering
A more minimalistic scene this time with few objects, clear lines and strong perspective, light and shadow. Iray is known to have issues with dark and moody renders, but this time it failed miserably I would say. It was impossible to render this picture without lots of grain and noise, so I decided to export the scene from DS, re-create all materials and render it in Vray (which, in my eyes, excels in rendering dark scenes and volumetrics).
I was looking at the image before I read your post and was wondering how the heck you did the light rays. Now it makes sense.
Normally I would say the scene could be filled out more, but the emptiness in your image speaks volumes. I like that this raises the question of who is the shotgun for, and why?
Well done.
You can create the same light rays in DS and render them with Iray. It's just that the render engine does not like such dark areas. I had to fight with this while doing my previous render, too (the house in the forest). When I was ready for the final render for this one here, I cranked up the settings after several tests and let Iray render for 12 hours, and still there was too much noticeable noise, also in the ray areas. There are several threads here in the forum (and elsewhere, of course) discussing this and giving more or less feasible tricks. But all of these tricks don't help when you want real light rays that strong.
@dtrscbrutal
Posing, posture, mood answer those questions...at least to me they do.
@ Fisherman_B
A suggestion would be to either have the shot gun across his lap or have it propped up on its stock leaning against his knee (either inside his knee or from the outside, both work) nd his rm resting on the arm rest holding the barrel. Holding the barrel lightly, almost absently or clutching it tightly, either can add to the story in a big way.
~Novbre
I am glad to see that the story works :)
These are exactly the right ideas! I played with different positions of the gun and found that the extreme lighting and the view from behind is somewhat problematic for placing an important object in the scene. On his lap it did no longer look like a gun (at least I expected viewers to ask themselves in the first moment "Is this a gun?" which was no option for me...), and when leaning against the chair it disappeared in the dark, but I wanted the reflections on it. I did not want him to hold the gun as he should still look hesitating, so I gave him a pose that should express this and made the gun distant but most prominent by lighting and perspective - and supported this place by his head, his upper body and the hand on his knee, perhaps willing to grab the gun - or maybe not.
All in all a difficult arrangement, from the beginning I was somewhat limited by following the strong idea to "frame" the character with darkness that surrounds him, a dark ceiling pressing down on him, dark walls and floor, there seems to be only one direction to the light, one way out...
Strong impact!
Fisherman you are you are far to good for the beginner thread, but it's fine to have again someone here, who show and explain us techniques that may improve our works.
It is not my intention to make anybody here feel uncomfortable. It is my intention to trigger imagination and by this, open doors to new thinking. I started using DS and Iray about six months ago. My first renders looked like many of the pictures you can see on the gallery start page - horrible! So I started to work, to improve.
I was sure that the introduction to this particular forum is applicable to me - at least one of the several characterizations
If the forum moderation should rate this as a misestimation from my side, I will gladly withdraw from this forum. Furthermore it is not a problem for me to be here out of competition if this should make anybody feel better - I am not after vouchers :)
Sorry if my comment has sounded, as that I wish, that you leave this contest.
Please don't go. Good pictures are always a source of inspiration and give us the chance, to ask how some things can be done to achieve an effect.
sorry, double posted - havent done anything seince read the forums for a few years, and haven't learned how the new system works quite yet.
9 years with DAZ now and I still get something great out of the new users contests every time I visit.
Fisherman_B - I did not notice the gun on the floor until I started trying to figure out what I was suposed to focus on. It has very little seperating it from it's surroundings. There is some contrast in value, but little in texture, and color. If you want this to be the focus of your image - there are a few composition things you can do to help bring it to focus. You have a lot of great ideas on composition elements that will draw attention to a focus area, but many of them are working against one another. These great bold lines are created with the lights, that run in the opposite direction as your perspective draws the eye. Your perspective vanishing point is actually right behind the glaring center window then your bold lighting runs into the room and down toward the bottom left hand side of the image - see how both of these strong elements pull the eyes in a diffreent direction? Both of these elements are fighting against the goldon ratio as well. I'm not even sure what part of the image I am suposed to focus on - is it the gun on the floor, the guy in the chair, the light from the window, I even checked the shadows for demons to see if that was what the guy was struggling with. The gun really is not belivable laying on the floor like that. It needs to be leaned up against something or placed on some kind of table, foot stool, or something. Laying on the floor makes me feel like your guy in the chair is so afraid of the gun that he can't even touch it and therefor wouldn't even contemplate using it. This will also help you create more tension in the scene - something that is lacking once tyou get past thoes excelent bold lines created with the light and shadows in the room. Turn the lights off and look at how your image apears - is the entire scene ridding on the lighting effect, or can it stand alone? Add that kind of lighting effect on top of a good stand alone composition and you just put it over the top.
I think you will have less confusion with your focal point if you were to add a table for the gun to lean against in the bottom left hand side of the scene just at the edge of your light pattern and flipped your guy and the chair to face the table with the back lighting around the guy near center. I think this would cause perspective to draw the eye to the chair, which would be boldly contrasting to the bright light in the wondows, and the rays of light would draw you to the gun - giving you both solid focal points that work with the golden ratio. To further seperate your main focus on the gun and secondary focus on the cahir - Depth of Frame (how deep into the image your camera is in focus) set on the gun can give you some great seperation.
Hello sweetluv40_2906afa5cc
thank you for your time to do an in-depth analysis. I will definitely try to remember your suggestions in a next composition, when I plan a new and different concept.
Turning off the light and checking how the image appears would result in a black image here, as the concept is totally based on the light / darkness contrast :) But - joking apart, I will definitely follow your advice in further attempts. You are right that this scene is too limited in applied methods to guide the viewers focus.
I really appreciate your time. This is the most constructive help I read so far here in our beginners threads. You have a skilled eye and a keen mind, I hope that we can read more of your good advice in the future. I am really lucky that your 5th visit in 9 years found this thread.
@Fisherman_B
If I could offer a suggestion. I would remove the window on the left and move the man's head to the top left intersection of the thirds. Either that or turn the camera to lose it and zoom in a bit more to achieve the same. I cropped your image in Photoshop to show what I mean.
Yes that looks better, even in the cropped version. I will try to realize this. Thank you for the good hint I guess when I wanted to emphasize the dark, pressing ceiling I exaggerated way too much... I will fix this!
I created a second version, following Fishtale's good advice, certainly resulting in a necessary adaption of the gun's location and the rotation of the light dome. I did not change the room's walls, but repositioned camera and character. A strong aspect of the concept disappeared, a new one has arrived. Thanks to Fishtale I also played again with the colors and now like the colors more than the first version :)
I am curious how things changed in your eyes. Looking forward to the discussion!
As a side note - I remember one of my professors at the art academy in Düsseldorf. He told us "in the first semester we will teach you even more rules for your future life. In the second semester we will teach you not to use them, and why. Mankind needs stereotypes - but art is freedom." This was more than 30 years ago and it was short time after a period when this particular academy spawned a few very promising (and very "different" and insurgent) artists. So it may not be a generally valid statement at all. But for me, a very scientific and technical person at that time, it was a revelation. Don't get confused about all those theories and guides, they are there to help you if you think that you need them for a particular work or reason. But don't use them just because they are there. Even worse, don't try to apply as many of them as possible, as one of the comments above seems to imply. If somebody tells you that it looks good, it's good. Because, in the end, it is art.
The "golden ratio" is the only guide that springs from nature, it is not artifical or technical like others. If you find other guides helpful too, that's great. There are even more things to keep in mind. For examlpe when we are after realism, we can use some facts and knowledge about physics - light, colors, shadows, and how our eyes perceives them. If you are not after realism, let your imagination abduct you, in every aspect of your work if you want it to be that way. A realistic work can more easiliy be followed by the viewer, but is very limited in how you can do things. I am not sure if I could do a fantasy style render, I would love to get inspired here. Perhaps one day somebody will do me such a favour. Or even better - make this a monthly challenge, to "force" us to somehow approach a new topic :)
Please bear with my English.
Very nice. And to very true with what your professor told you all those years ago. Now if I could capture the moodieness in mine as well as you've done in this.
Thank you @Shinji Ikari 9th. All your work that I saw in the past has a very strong personal signature, a handwriting. That's a great particularity, and it's something we all want to attain. I am looking forward to your next entry!
Here we are with my first render of the year. Yet another trip into the shadows, but this time I've decided to base my characters on those from the webshow RWBY. Guess that I've been reading quite a bit of fanfiction based on it. Characters represented in this version, Weiss and Blake from the titler team.
Shingi, you have the coolest set of backgrounds and environments, I have loved everyone you have used. I really like the dynamics and action in your scene. Have you tried overlaying a golden spiral on it to see how it lines up?
@sweetluv40_2906afa5cc
@Fishtales
That is some great insight from you both.
@Fisherman_B
Excellent implementation of the above!
I am very impressed by how vray handles the godrays. Are you doing any post work?
Thank you. I am posting a cutout of an early version that I rendered with Iray - you can see nice godrays as well, but when you zoom in you get an idea of the graininess and noise. That was after 9 hours or so. Scale 1:1, the original render size was approx. 5k x 7k.
The second picture is a downsized comparison of the plain final Vray render (left) with the post worked version posted earlier (right, a bit of brightness&contrast, color balance and gradiation curves). I am sure that much better post work can be done, but I am not good at that at all, so I only do some very basic and careful editing. Any hints appreciated! :)
I really like this render butttt I do have some advice, your front character is blending into the background too much he needs a Rim light behind him to bring him to the forefront of the story. Maybe a spotlight with a setting of 25% or 30% to make it a bit suttle you could set the color of the light to a pale orange.
@Fisherman_B
The image looks more balanced to me now with the head being the contact point for my eyes when the image is first opened and, with him looking at the gun, my eyes are then drawn to it on the floor.
I tend to use the rule of thirds exclusively on images, whether renders or photographs, and seldom deviate :) Looking at your new image the man's head is in the upper left intersection and the gun is at the bottom right one, which is probably why I see the image as balanced :)
Using eye tracking techniques it has been shown that certain items in an image draw our eyes, a face, bright spot or eyes, and where they are in an image dictates where our eyes go to. It has also shown that we look first in the area where we expect to start reading, even if there is no text, which for most English speakers is the upper left side. If there is a face/head there then our eyes linger there before moving on to the rest of the image. If the head is turned into the image we then follow the gaze of the head to see what it is looking at which is usually along the second line of the thirds to keep the image balanced. If it was good enough for the Renaissance painters it is good enough for me :)
True! I did not notice the right character for a few seconds. It is well hidden in the foreground ;)
As dcbrutal said, you have a cool environment here.
After I purchased the fantastic https://www.daz3d.com/super-nova-capital-ship in the fast grab, I could not resist and try it out.
It took me a while to get the HDRI background in the right position and even longer to find a acceptable camera position.
First, I only used the HDRI to light the scene, but that gave the ship a flat silhuette. Now I have implement one distant light.
I know, that in the space there is no twilightzone, but I don't like, how parts of the cruiser get lost in the black.
I don't know if it is better, to only change the light angle, or if I should also create a rimlight?
Next big problem, how to fill the scene?
Since this is my first work without a persons. What a story will I tell?
A spacebattle would be nice, but then I should create some explosions and ship wracks who are drifting in the space, but I have no clue, how I can make that look realistic.
So, before I get lost in details, I first would know if this may work, or if I have to change something before I put other props in the scene?
@daybird I like your scene very much. Space is dark and cold, light is directional and cold, colors are cold. That is a great match. For me, despite of the fact that space stuff is always very techy (except you want flying unicorns ;) it always triggers a certain feeling - the irrational idea of being lost because the brain can't grasp infinity. The more a picure transports this, the more I like it. This is a pure personal thing of course, other viewers may not be triggered this way. So a general idea can be to not add much stuff that does not belong in space, to let space have its effect. A few very distant stars can perhaps add even more realism and allow for a very subtle second (hidden) light if you want to follow your idea with an additional light source. For the sake of realism, I would try a different approach first, by filling in lights coming from the inside of the ship in areas that you see getting lost in the black. Starting with the backside of the command tower perhaps. There are areas already where you can see these lights. Our brain complements dark or even invisible surfaces when there are objects or lights on a plane.
This is a great scene to play with, I am sure you are having a lot of fun.
@ Fisherman_B
The gun just laying on the floor (for me) is a distraction and the more I look at it, the bigger a distraction it becomes lol. Who would just lay one on the ground? Why would they? And then, why would they just leave it there?
Maybe a desk, or sideboard, or some other surface it could be legitimatel laying on? If it were a table or desk under the window, the bulk of it would be hidden by the shadows from the light coming in the windows but the surface would give the gun a believable place to be. Again, this is just me, but having it on the floor doesn't make much sense, unless of course there's a body next to it...but that would change the story...a lot!
~ Novbre
@ daybird
I love the light, the burners, the shine on the ship the glow of the planet. Great pops of colour. Maybe some stars? Anything from a full on star feild to just few sprinkled around all the black could be a subtle detail to really sell the outter space feel.
~ Novbre
Version B up. I changed the environment map to see if that would help with seeing Blake. Would have done more, but I've got to be heading out for work in a few minutes.
Edit- For those who are wondering what set I'm using this month, it's Stonemason's 'After the War'.