" to DIM or not to DIM"
zerebrush_04a75c0166
Posts: 0
Hi,
just one question: if you would go out into the rain, you certainly would take your umbrella with you (for the sake of the example, please: lets leave it at that for the moment - thank you!).
But, to use your umbrella in a sufficient way: would you use another umbrella for your first umbrella?
Right: "insane" might be a bit harsh, but it would likewise not be far off.
How does this connect to DAZ? Well, simply with the use of the DIM!
If I go purchase and after I have done the paying bit, once I could download one ore more exe files, installers of the item I just bought.
With time DAZ implemented something a few might know from renderocity: zip files!
No problem with that - even a user shortly under "Power User" could manage that.
BUT: a while later DAZ decided to publish an "Install Manager" -- and now, please: remember the umbrella routine -- the installer for the installers.
Before I go any further I think I have to say that I do not use any content management (when this came out, my Runtime had been large enough to make envoking this new "tool" more tedious then helpful). I also have no "My Library" folder because I am still sticking to >>content\Runtime...<<.</p>
OK, back to the DIM then.
What this program does is that it downloads my purchases, but not followed by installing the downloaded items.
No big deal - these downloads can be found easy enough, neatly packed in zip archives.
And, for normal items extracting them to the right paths is no problem at all.
But then - try to extract the new D|S Beta from a nested zip file! This is - with all due respect - USELESS!
So please: any user that encounters no problem with DIM should have the option to use this program,
likewise should any user that HAS problems with DIM have the option to download an installer (like so many years before), or a zip file if that is more convenient for DAZ.
It is really that simple: if items will be only reachable by using the DIM - I am off, no DAZzie anymore! And, wouldn't that be just too bad? :)
As a side note: if some of this sounds funny, I assure you >>>> IT IS NOT!!
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Comments
Took me a little time to decipher/process/translate what you were trying to express. If I got it right, it can be boiled down to:
You are annoyed that the DAZ beta is only available via DIM.
If I got that right, this came also up during the previous beta. It is only done this way for DS beta releases, the final versions will be available as standard installer. The reason is related to the fact that the beta can be installed in parallel with the release versions which requires handling via DIM. This was confirmed by DAZ in one of the previous beta threads.
Ciao
TD
Sorry for my shortcomings (being no native speaker has some limits)!
Well, your answer covers only part of the issue: I can "work" without the beta, but there are purchases that can not be reached, and even more purchases that probably never will be done.
Thank you for taking the time to answer just the same.
You don't need to use the DIM to download your purchases, you can download them manually by going to your account, up at the top right of the forum, next to the Log In Log Out button. Once you are in your account got to "Product Library, shown on the top line menu bar.
Also if I am understanding you right you are also saying that DIM doesn't install for you. It in fact does install your content if you set it up right.
DIM stands for Download and Install Manager
I understand that English is not your first language and that is my problem with trying to understand you. After a few readings I got what you are saying. Pretty much what the other critics have been saying.
On the question of "to DIM or not to DIM?", I myself was on the sidelines for a long time. And then I noticed that DIM actually does more than install my products, it also tells me when a product has been updated. Before, on a few occasions, I had not realized a product had been updated for over a year. Now DIM tells when an installed product has been updated, I then come to the forums to see if anything bad is being said about the update, and if so, wait a bit until the issues are resolved and then update, or update immediately if I find no one complaining about an update.
So, DIM also helps you maintain your Runtime.
I love the DIM. 1 click-done. I also love that it automatically shows what updates are available. I would not be happy installing dozens and dozen of packages 1 at a time without it. And having to manually merge folder content? That's ridiculous.
I love it. Especially the updates. Before you never knew there was an update to a product until someone mentioned it in the forums. I also like it cause it installs everything exactly where it needs to go. There are a few here and there that are mess up and they have to fix
DIM can download and install, or just download, or download first and let you install with DIM later.
So please: any user that encounters no problem with DIM should have the option to use this program,
likewise should any user that HAS problems with DIM have the option to download an installer (like so many years before), or a zip file if that is more convenient for DAZ.
It is really that simple: if items will be only reachable by using the DIM - I am off, no DAZzie anymore! And, wouldn't that be just too bad? :)
As a side note: if some of this sounds funny, I assure you >>>> IT IS NOT!!
This is ONLY about the DS Beta, to ensure that it can be safely installed alongside the release version. Other software which is difficult to install manually from zips will continue to be available as stand-alone installers for those who prefer not to use DIM.
I prefer DIM now because it provides a searchable list of everything I have bought and installed. This, along with "My Account" on DAZ3D.COM, helps me avoid buying something twice and then going through the hassle of trying to get a refund or credit.
That right there makes DIM a no-brainer/must-do for me.
Use it, learn it, love it.
@fixmypcmike
lots of stuff
The umbrella: I had a close look at the DIM while trying to make it work for me.
Along the way I have altered install paths, tried to configure DIM in a way that it finally would not only download but install my purchase as well.
If I had been lucky in this, I would not write this here.
I guess this is the most annoying point for me: some items only offer one option after purchase: use DIM.
No exe, no zip (no matter why zip is a better option then an exe).
ZIP files: like most people I am used to handle zip files, the problem here: if the path structure inside the zip is different from what the target software is expecting, the user is lost.
So I made it a habit to first have a short look at this before I go to "install to folder XY". But, even then there are enough cases where items will be installed to the weirdest kind of places.
That is the reason for me to like installers that much (exe files that I can download, that do not need to be processed by another installer).
Target folders: like I said before, changing the paths to use for installing did not make DIM to finally install anything.
The scope of DIM: DIM can download stuff, right. But - no matter if on line or off - the installer did not work.
Had a look at the log file, and the only hint for something out of order I could find had been some mentioning of being not able to open a database of some kind ("Veronica-somesuch" if I remember this right).
Think it has something to do with the Content management - the part that I do not use. Never have, never will.
And, this is part of my "nagging": I believe that I, as a simple user, must not have to go and read a log file for a every day thing like an installation of an item worth maybe 20 MB.
The last part of your answer is not entirely true: there are items that only give you the option to use DIM.
Hope my lacking knowledge of your language did not make my answer entirely rubbish :).
If I look at your answer and try to boil it down to maybe one sentence, then I understand that there will be the continued option to load down installers without the use of DIM?
Right away?
Thank you, that really is all I hoped to hear!!
I was hesitant about using DIM. I had a large content folder and did not want it messed up. I decided to start clean. I hid (renamed) my old content library so DAZ would not see it and started over. It proved to be a good decision. It took time to download all the content again,but putting it in a new library, with the help of DIM made that task manageable. I simply clicked a few additional products while doing other work on my PC. I was amazed at how fast the downloads and installs happened.
Even the information in the DIM like when the item was purchased etc. has been helpful at times in managing my library of content. A click on the info button and the web page (if there is one) for the item appears in your web browser .
I set up a separate set of library folders for content from other sources. I get to play with zip files and whatever in those libraries. Believe me, I appreciate DIM a little more every time I have to manually install content.
I have come to appreciate the DIM and Content Manager and the on-line Product Library. It works for me. It saves me time so I have more time to be doing things in DAZ instead of the mundane tasks of downloading and installing content.
I think "fixmypcmike's" comments above detail the technical specific and I wanted to simply add that from a user's perspective, I have found the DIM to be a time-saver at keeping my content organized.
If you are dead-set on manually installing then I think you should continue to do so. I am not sure why some content would not be available with a DIM install. There may be technical issues. I know when the DIM was new, some of the content was not set up for DIM yet, but it has steadily been added to the DIM.
Also, as others have noted, the DIM makes handling product updates manageable. They just appear at the top of the list of content that can be downloaded for installation. I hope that DIM development continues, and makes my content management even easier.
>>>... I am not sure why some content would not be available with a DIM install...<<<</p>
That really is not what I had been trying to say: in my opinion there should/could be an option for DIM, but likewise an option to download an installer file that can be installed without using DIM.
Would make most users happy, I guess.
Installers will not come back, the Zips are downloadable from your account with out DIM in the Products Library. The Zips have a TOP folder called CONTENT all the files below content belong in the proper folders in your Content Library. If your PC has Merge as a Folder option just Multi Select all Content inside the Zip Content folder and then Merge those to your TOP Content folder just as Poser files are done to a Runtime.
Well, there is one statement that looks like
>>> Other software which is difficult to install manually from zips will continue to be available as stand-alone installers for those who prefer not to use DIM.<<<</p>
And then there is your part of the answer, pointing in the exact opposite direction.
Can you please tell me where personal opinion starts/ends and the "official" statement is to be found?
Thank you, just trying to get one answer that is dependable.
Okay, we're just giving you our opinions. Given the language difficulty, parsing our comments word for word to glean some special meaning might not get you the deeper understanding you are seeking.
Some of us like DIM because it helps make a big job simpler and helps make it easier to track our DAZ purchases. DIM makes it easier and faster for us to see what we have already purchased, and to redownload and/or reinstall a product if that should become necessary.
It's that simple!
If you don't like or don't trust DIM, well then I say you should install individually. But be prepared for this administrative responsibility to require more time from you on a going-forward basis. If you understand the need for increased personal involvement in managing your DAZ products, then you are making a valid, conscious decision, and I say more power to you!
The only item that should be available only with DIM is the DS beta. For content products, there should be an option to download the zip; for software and plugins, there should be a stand-alone installer option. If you find products which don't have a non-DIM option, please submit a support ticket so the page can be fixed.
My apologies for your troubles installing with DIM -- as the default behavior is to download after install, and as your error log clearly shows that the products are being installed, is it possible that the location they are being installed to is not mapped in DS? The valentina errors have to do with CMS, which you don't use, but the product files do install even if the database portion fails.
My comment was only addressed to Content. As stated Programs and Plugins are available in exe install format in your Products Library. Only the Beta Products, which are offered but NOT required, are in DIM install only format. That is needed so users can have both the full DAZ Studio and the Beta version installed Side by side on a PC.
I DIM for content, plugins, etc. I reinstalled DS and the beta through DIM and let them go where they wanted (DIM's settings point to E:\Program Files, and DIM created a \Daz 3D subfolder). Now all of my plugins, etc install correctly to both the release and beta. My content/runtimes are still on F: though.
I just wish GenX would be updated for DIM. I have to re-run the *exe to get it in the new beta every time (and also copy appdata files since the install doesn't put anything in the beta's appdata folder).
@ fixmypcmike
No apologies needed, really - still I am glad that this discussion can happen between grown ups (sort of)!
My only concern had been that other options beside using DIM might disappear.
Because of your question: no, nothing went to places that D|S does not know about.
In fact the DIM tells me "Install failed" after some minutes of (seemingly) busy working.
To leave out nothing:
- I entered the path for installation
- I tried installing on line/off line
- I tried it with and without working fire wall
- DIM had been started "open as administrator"
- I tried (for the beta) a different directory.
But again - as long as DIM is nothing but another option to download/install any purchase, I am more then happy with the situation.
So, thank you (and all the other users that bothered to spend their time answering) very much for making things more clear to me.
Cheers...