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Hiding parts of body

Mosk the ScribeMosk the Scribe Posts: 888
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

I have a scene set up and ready to go in Carrara 8.5 pro.

In the preview window, there's no pokethrough.
Upon rendering, some areas of skin are showing through a shirt on genesis and a santa suit on m4.

I've gone into the model room on each and hid a bunch of vertices, including the affected areas, but still renders as if skin is there.

Any other simple solutions come to mind other than mucking with clothing? (And is this a known bug or any ideas what would cause hidden verts to render anyway?)

Thanks

Comments

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Not sure why hiding the vertices doesn't work. That's kind of weird. What if you selected by shading domain and one of the limbs?

    As to the poke through not being visible in the preview but showing in the render, my first thought was smoothing or displacement causing the issue.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,549
    edited December 1969

    Mosk the Scribe said:
    I have a scene set up and ready to go in Carrara 8.5 pro.

    In the preview window, there's no pokethrough.
    Upon rendering, some areas of skin are showing through a shirt on genesis and a santa suit on m4.

    I've gone into the model room on each and hid a bunch of vertices, including the affected areas, but still renders as if skin is there.

    Any other simple solutions come to mind other than mucking with clothing? (And is this a known bug or any ideas what would cause hidden verts to render anyway?)

    Thanks

    Right. It's somehow in the protection of the file... or something...
    In these cases, the thing I've been doing is:
    Make a new shader called "Invisible"
    Edit the new shader and give everything a value of zero or leave it in the off position and give Alpha Value 1-100, and leave that slider at its default of zero. Then go in and give those parts this shader. You can also make your own black and white maps if you need more precision. You'll still see a silhouette of the mesh in the working view - but nothing will render.
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,549
    edited December 1969

    Here's an option I'm going to be trying very soon, here:

    Load in which ever Genesis figure - but just the base. In other words, all morph dials at zero.

    Load on a good set of clothing that really shows off some horrible poke through - like, the worse example.
    Select Actor of that base Genesis (or Gn2) figure and click the little hand in the upper left corner to edit it's mesh.
    Go through the whole protected topology thing - turning it off.
    Now select a ploygon and turn on symmetry and soft selection. Leave the soft selection as high as it is and test for the right mount of influence and using the poke through as a guide, imagine how much bigger the figure would have to be fit to in order to eliminate the poke through. That came out awkward. Hmmm. Basically double, at least, the amount of poke through. We're not looking for uniform scaling here, nor are we worried about what poor Genesis is looking like - because you won't actually see this version.

    If you think thhat clothing, in general needs to be bigger 'in this spot', then sculpt the figure bigger in the right directions to get the results you want. What we're doing is pulling out the clothes where we pull out on Genesis. We just can't see that yet.

    When you're done, get out of edit mode and export that poor, weird-looking figure out as an OBJ. Use DAZ Studio preset (?) I'll get back to you on that one. I've always scaled down universally, in the motion tab to 1.042 and used the Poser preset. But I want to try the DS preset to see if scaling is required. Does anbody know?
    Okay. Now open DAZ Studio Pro and load in a fresh copy of the same Genesis model you edited, but before the editing. Load in the OBJ you made in Carrara as a morph onto Genesis using the Morph Loader Pro.
    With Genesis selected, go to Save As > Support Assets > Morph Assets
    The dialog that comes up is a nice worksheet where you give each yourself and your morph a name and then select what part of the figure is affected with this morph. For what we're doing in this example, we're going to open up the Genesis hierarchy, then Actor, Full Body and Stylized. This will place our morph below the dials for Victoria 5 or 6, depending, etc., on the Genesis figure. When you're done hit Accept.
    Now go to that folder on your computer. The place where you just saved that DUF. Copy the folder that it is in. Before pasting it again (in the same spot) rename the original to "Projected Morphs". Now paste the folder back. You should now have two folders in that location, with the same file in each.

    Go back into DS Pro and load in a new scene with a fresh version of the base Genesis you're using. Save As and save it in the exact place using the same name. Same as before, we're going to Save As > Support Assets > Morph Assets, open up the Genesis hierarchy, then Actor, Full Body and Stylized. "Overwrite the existing file?" "Yeah... Do it!" I mean... Yes.

    Now you'll have a clothing adjustment tool right within Genesis. This could make for a powerful tool - and allow us to more freely use all of our Genesis stuff. Oh, and this will also work on clothing that was auto-fit. It actually tells the clothes that the changes are being made to Genesis - so it follows. New feature, courtesy the wonderful Devs at DAZ 3D! ;)

    That said... whew. We can make all sorts of shape shifters!

    I don't know if PokeAway 2! for Genesis 2 Female(s) fully removes Poke through in Carrara, but it looks nice. Lots of different dials for different things. And going in changes the clothes, out changes the figure (in) so you have a choice to either enlarge the clothing or reduce the body part!
    You can do that with our example, too... but that's more than I can say right now.
    At this introductory price, I'd rather buy PokeAway!

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited October 2013

    If you click through all the protected mesh dialogues, can you then hide the vertices as you can in versions of Carrara prior to C8.5?

    The last solution seems so overly complicated- kind of a step backwards actually. Even if my financial situation turned around tomorrow and I had the money for a new rig and all the software I wanted to go with it, I would have a hard time justifying the move to C8.5, just because of the reduce- I mean "enhanced" functionality of Genesis in Carrara. I think I would be one of those old curmudgeons sitting on the fence waiting for C9. I love Carrara, but I don't want to step backwards in ease of use.

    Post edited by evilproducer on
  • Mosk the ScribeMosk the Scribe Posts: 888
    edited December 1969

    Now I'm running into same clothing problems with Kids 4 in default t-pose without any morphs added and K4 skateboard outfit - much of the boy's chest is showing through his shirt; If I go into model room and Hide Vertices, I still get the chest showing up on render.

    I tried creating a new shading domain and made an Invisible shader with alpha 0 and everything off - and that does hide the body - but unless that's matched exactly to the outline of the shirt (and any other piece of clothing) , I either get a clear gap where there's no shirt and no shaded body, or I get body showing through the shirt.

    Is this a bug in C8.5?

    I have things I need done in a couple of days, and these constant unexpected, very basic functionality snafus are killing me (all right, not killing, but it is incredibly frustrating)

    Thanks for any help or suggestions for workarounds.

    I'd imported this as a duf from DAZ Studio. Will try loading clothes directly from Carrara and see if that helps.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Since the easy way is not available, the next possibility is to try the 3D paint option. I know it's available in Pro, not sure about standard, and I don't know what version of Carrara you have.

  • Mosk the ScribeMosk the Scribe Posts: 888
    edited December 1969

    Loading clothes directly within carrara fixed the K4 problem - and selecting body parts and setting those to use invisible shader working for my genesis character who's wearing long pants and long shirt. Not ideal but if I factor in the clothing problem, I'll be able to get done what I need done in the next couple of days, then worry about longer term solutions.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,165
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:
    Since the easy way is not available, the next possibility is to try the 3D paint option. I know it's available in Pro, not sure about standard, and I don't know what version of Carrara you have.

    Yes, I tried to recreate the problem but I don't have the skateboard set. Using the 3D paint tool in the alpha channel seemed to work, but you do have to make sure that you are painting in the alpha of the region that is causing poke through, and that you make sure that alpha map is active when you render.

    K4_alpha.JPG
    711 x 632 - 73K
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,549
    edited December 1969

    Carrara 8.5 bug?
    I understand that, yes... there are some issues that are being worked out - what they are, I'm not sure about.

    Introducing new shading domains
    I'm fairly certain that this is not a good idea for animations on the actual character figures as it may break the rigging - but I may not have that right.

    EP, where I made it sound like a major PITA above, it is actually (in my thoughts, anyways) a very quick and simple procedure that I will add directly to Genesis - making a bit of a quick fix for nearly any clothing poke through situation. So it would become actually a dial on Genesis. Personally, I am going to make my adjustments to the mesh a bit drastic, so that I'll have more elbow room to work with.

    Of course, I also wish to buy xenic101's PokeAway too.

    Hiding parts is easier, and will often turn out a great looking shape to the clothing. This is just a bit of an experiment that I want to try anyways for adding cloth movement to conformed, following items. I think that it will end up working better (for me) than any of the previous generation models.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited October 2013

    Dart, don't get me wrong. I appreciate all the hard work DAZ put into Carrara, but this whole protected mesh business sounds like overkill. I personally think it's being presented as a way not to screw up your character, but it in reality, reeks like some kind of DRM. Not to sound paranoid but it seems like a way to "sell" fixes, such as the poke through plugin you referenced.

    Let's face it, if you load a figure from your browser, be it Object, Content or Smart Content, and then save your scene, you're not overwriting the original figure, so why "protect" it in such a draconian manner? If the figure in your scene were to get screwed up by something you did, delete the figure and reload it from the browser and start over having learned your lesson. In my mind, if a warning dialogue pops up that says you could screw up this or that part of your figure if you edit it, then DAZ has done it's part. I see no reason to make it so freakin' difficult or hamper basic functionality.

    Post edited by evilproducer on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,549
    edited December 1969

    I can totally agree, ep - but I think you might be over-thinking some of this. Bear with me for a sec:
    As far as the selected polygons not disappearing when hidden from the model room, that's something that has been there as long as I've been using Carrara - so I don't think it's Carrara, but on the figure level.
    When I was talking about the "Protected Topology", that's just a simple command to get rid of once on the figure you're working on - not a big deal.

    I always felt fortunate that I used V4 as much as I did because it was special, in that it doesn't have nearly the protection as other models do. Some V4 clothing has it, some doesn't.

    All that said, I still wish that such junk didn't exist. Not sure how that can even be considered protection. Hide should hide until unhidden, IMHO!

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