Medieval, Fantasy Clothes for Teens and younger
katherinepoche_e11a5b0e7e
Posts: 269
I know that some of the clothes work well for young Lords and Ladies, but we could use more selection for the young nobles and young peasants alike, after all we have the King's son!
And maybe some different, more youthful dresses for the girls in the royal court.
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they look like Haute Couture models
I do not want to bring worldviews to collapse, but as I mentioned, I often travel in poor countries .... I'm afraid the reality of medieval clothing for children, as far as "peasants" are concerned, was probably limited to some wrapped rags... in the best case....
As far as teenagers are concerned: in a society with life expectancy of about 30 years, one is either capable of reproduction and thus grown up - or a child. I'm afraid "teenagers" are the product of a privileged society.
The social class that can afford it will dress its children in the role that they will later fulfill ... which leads to the children's armor of some future kings exhibited in museums.
Clothing is luxury ... even in the Napoleonic wars, dead soldiers are buried naked, everything is collected on the battlefields, looking for uniform parts and kit which can be handed out to new recruits or ragged veterans....
Mary was 5 years old when she went to France to be betrothed apparently too
I think we argue past each other: I am here about clothes, i.E. when to dress as an adult, children's clothing and teenage clothes..... I would like to avoid discussing social or ethical standards - precisely because my personal experience is that there are often big discrepancies between subjective standards that westerners would like to see (and are often ready to defend to the last as part of a dogma) and the crude reality of a large number of the inhabitants of this planet. As an example the strange impression one gains while reading western history books - that human history between 1000 and 1400 is limited to Europe and its periphery...
The question was, how does the medieval teenager dress? My consideration was, does the medieval man know the concept of the teenager as far as clothing is concerned. I have the following statement out of "Women of History":
Quote: "So, typically, when did a young medieval girl embark on the road to “womanhood”:
Puberty is the process of change that takes place as you grow up and become physically mature and capable of having children. "
In medieval times, children wore whatever the adults wore, only smaller, and adjusted for socioeconomics. Infants were largely swaddled. To preserve fabric, clothes were often cut down from larger pieces. Clothes were also inherited (and listed in wills extant to the period). The significant difference between a woman and girl was usually how they wore their hair, in Europe. There was no social concept or construct for 'teenager'; that is a modern notion (the fifties largely created it). 'Adulthood' varied, depending on situation and experience, but very often if you were old enough to be married or apprenticed out, you were an adult. It often coincided with physically obvious pubescence.
Western history books are about European history, due to the fact that Europeans are indigenous to the West. If you want history in a different region, you will have to read a different book.
You should never regret communicating in a forum .... why else should a "product suggestions" forum exist? I'm sorry if my remarks dampened the mood, it was not my intention.
there is nothing wrong with suggestions, this a forum so people will discuss stuff, I believe the Kardashian versions of medieval dressing would actually go down well with most PA's and fantasy renderers regardless of accuracy.
I long for accurate medieval clothing... too many years in reenactment, and sewing. I get nosebleeds when I see some of the bodice constructions... but I know that digital is not real, and cloth is not mesh, so I get over it ;-)
The examples initally presented are neither medieval nor renaissance in any country, so I would classify them as fantasy. (Although the first dress on the third image has a very English Elizabethan neckline). As such, I am not sure how you would make them more 'juvenile' in appearance... higher necklines? More 'youthful' colours? Simpler fabrics, maybe, if it was to be daily wear, such as you see during the regency periods in European fashion; lighter colours were considered youthful, and a day dress would have fewer ruffles, ribbons & furbelows, and sometimes fewer petticoats or a less constraining undergarment.
In that sense, what you might be looking at is less a different style of clothing, and more a retexturing of whatever the rest of your 'cast' is wearing. One of the huge differences in class-apparel for women in the middle ages was where your bodice laced; poor women usually had front laces, so they could do them on their own, as they obviously did not have servants. Wealthy people had them in the back, where they would not disturb the frontline of their clothing, because they had people to help them dress :-) (They also did not criss-cross their lacings, but that's another topic).
One of the points that I resent Hollywood & Co. .... the frivolous, superficial handling of realities. Or better, some social consequences that result from generalized reality distortion. But that's another topic.
I am curious. Not criss-crossing the lacings - was that a superstition thing?
Not at all; they are much easier to tighten/loosen if you simply lace back and forth with one end of your lacing. A good modern corset laces the same way - a simple pull will tighten, without having to mess with the strings section by section. :-)
What a great topic of discussion. Lots to learn from the various opinions and points of view and geoographic perspectives.
Thank you for your openness!
It is the dilemma in times when society gives more weight to dogma than reality: The artist plans a banal scene (eg in a village).... If he follows his drive for perfectionism, he will want to put a bunch of half-naked children in the background (anyone who has ever traveled to rural areas in poor countries understands what I mean).... then he realizes that some will accuse him of pedophilia. If he paints the beggar realistically, the same people will accuse him of sadism... .... which, after much thought, often leads to the artist never realizing the project. Too much trouble! This leads to thousands of illustrations giving the impression that the autentic medieval/ancient times village looks like Disneyland. This in turn leads to a distorted perception. I find this problematic because it does not just concern topics such as medieval clothing ....
No offense, just saying
How often, for example, this historical photo is NOT shown - although it is an important message from our ancestors.
Thanks to katherinepoche_e11a5b0e7e to have started the topic - even if the exchange did not go in the direction that was intended.
@katherinepoche_e11a5b0e7e you could always look at paintings done by medieval artists (online, art books, etc), because they lived in those times. And Misselthwaite has it right in their posts.
There are some general truisms; underclothes were usually off-white, simply because they were undyed (which is always cheaper!). Some dyes were ridiculously expensive and difficult to make/obtain - red and purples, famously, and true blacks. Simply wearing those colours was sufficient to denote wealth, and in some places and times, those colours were actually restricted in use to certain classes of nobility or clergy (gotta keep those pesky bourgeoise merchants in their place!). Linen and wool were the mainstay for fabric in Europe; wealthy people could also afford silks, velvets, and later, jaquards! Embroidery and lace were both time-consuming, intensely laborious; hence only appearing on obvious place on the clothing (wrists, collars) - unless you were very rich. The cut of clothing was dictated by the width of the fabric, and hence by the size of your loom. Rich people could afford wider fabric, and new, while poorer folk were more likely to recycle, and use narrower strips, and that is reflected in the seam-lines of their clothing and how they were designed.
The over-sleeves in Renaissance Italy (my favorite, and happened nearly 100 years before the English Renaissance) were often so magnificently ornamented with embroidery, pearls and gems that they were left individually to people as part of their inheritance, and their were dozens of sleeve styles and regional variations. Rural areas also changed fashion more slowly; you could easily find clothing that was nearly a century 'out of date' in remote areas... okay, I'm stopping now - it's the cold medication talking, not me ;-)
If you look at pictures, just check to make sure they are actually medieval (medievalism has been popular several times in the past, and many more modern artists paint those subjects), and be aware that the upper middle class and upper classes are heavily over-represented, because they could afford to hire artists :-)
Interesting topic. I'd love to see some fantasy childrens clothing too. And since it's our artwork it can be whatever we want right? I agree about possibly raising the neckline for creating a younger version. Maybe a looser cut on the waistlines? Slightly shorter hem to allow for running, or even split skirt for both male and female if you are going for fantasy instead of authentic. I definitly need more rag clothing and had wondered if I could create them out of some of jepes scarves.
But I have a question to add to this. Can the adult clothing items even be used on the children in daz? I've not tried it but that is in my future plans. I know there are some gen4 clothing items that will work pretty well for me, including the fantasy character ones. I've already tested them and found out they will transfer over to an adult g8 male, so I'm going to assume they will also work on a kid.
Love your samples. I would definitly add those to my daz library if they were available except I'd prefer a less modern gown bodice top.