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Denoise renders and save a LOT of time! (Nvidia not Reqd)

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  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Taoz said:
    kameneko said:

    This is very interesting, but I'm not understanding how to do that and if I can, is there any guide for noobs like me?

    You can use either the nVidia or the Intel denoiser:

    Intel - https://github.com/DeclanRussell/IntelOIDenoiser/releases

    Nvidia - https://github.com/DeclanRussell/NvidiaAIDenoiser/releases

    Just extract the zip(s) to your HDD.

    This DragNDrop app makes it easy to use the denoisers and should normally work for both, just unzip it into a folder and run it.

    https://taosoft.dk/software/freeware/dnd_nvd/DnD_For_NVidia_Denoiser_1.000_NET4.zip

    Select the path to one of the denoisers (the folder that contains the Denoiser.exe), then you can just drop your renders from Explorer onto the app and it will create a denoised version of them in the same folder.

     

    OMG...this is GREAT!!!!

    I've tried it out on one of my first renders, with a looot of noise (more noise than render actually xD), and it looks almost acceptable!

    Of course, it's even better with higher quality renders, thank you so much guys!

    Everyone should try this out, maybe one day we'll see it integrated in Daz itself! :D

     

     

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,169
    edited March 2019
    kameneko said:
    Taoz said:
    kameneko said:

    This is very interesting, but I'm not understanding how to do that and if I can, is there any guide for noobs like me?

    You can use either the nVidia or the Intel denoiser:

    Intel - https://github.com/DeclanRussell/IntelOIDenoiser/releases

    Nvidia - https://github.com/DeclanRussell/NvidiaAIDenoiser/releases

    Just extract the zip(s) to your HDD.

    This DragNDrop app makes it easy to use the denoisers and should normally work for both, just unzip it into a folder and run it.

    https://taosoft.dk/software/freeware/dnd_nvd/DnD_For_NVidia_Denoiser_1.000_NET4.zip

    Select the path to one of the denoisers (the folder that contains the Denoiser.exe), then you can just drop your renders from Explorer onto the app and it will create a denoised version of them in the same folder.

     

    OMG...this is GREAT!!!!

    I've tried it out on one of my first renders, with a looot of noise (more noise than render actually xD), and it looks almost acceptable!

    Of course, it's even better with higher quality renders, thank you so much guys!

    Everyone should try this out, maybe one day we'll see it integrated in Daz itself! :D

     

     

    Actually, a denoiser has been in the newest beta for quite awhile now :). But only for Nvidia users and only if the rendering was taking place on the gfx card. If it drops to cpu rendering the denoiser doesn't work, so being able to use these denoiser(s) is a bonus ;).

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,941
    edited March 2019
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    Padone said:

    Honestly I can't understand what's the fuss here. Denoising has always been available via Photoshop or GIMP or most video editors for animations. As for Iray denoising it's in the beta. So if you don't have a nVidia card you can anyway use it on the CPU.

    So you can use the nVidia denoiser without an nVidia card?

    Well, just tried, doesn't work here:


     

    Right, the nVidia denoiser needs a (supported) nVidia card.

    I imagine Padone may have meant that the DS beta supports the nVidia denoiser in question here (or a version of it), so you can apply it also in CPU only rendering. I have 4.11 installed on a PC without an nVidia card, in DS I can see a "Post Denoiser Available" under Filtering, which probably is that. However, I get this error message if I enable it:

    2019-03-23 15:52:00.782 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\pluginsource\DzIrayRender\dzneuraymgr.cpp(304): Iray WARNING - module:category(POST:RENDER):   1.0   POST   rend warn : Postprocessing is running on the CPU, but Denoiser is requested. Denoising is not available on CPU.

    The message seems unclear - I wonder if I need to install some plugin, or it just don't work with CPU only?

    ETA: does apparently not work with CPU only, you'll need a compatible nVidia card..

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,941
    xmasrose (aka tulipe) said:

    @Taoz  Works fine for me on Win7 and Intel denoiser. Thank you.

    You're welcome, and thanks for the feedback!

    BTW, do the black shell windows close by themselves after they're finished? They do with the nVidia denoiser, but I can't test the Intel version myself.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,941
    AllenArt said:
    kameneko said:
    Taoz said:
    kameneko said:

    This is very interesting, but I'm not understanding how to do that and if I can, is there any guide for noobs like me?

    You can use either the nVidia or the Intel denoiser:

    Intel - https://github.com/DeclanRussell/IntelOIDenoiser/releases

    Nvidia - https://github.com/DeclanRussell/NvidiaAIDenoiser/releases

    Just extract the zip(s) to your HDD.

    This DragNDrop app makes it easy to use the denoisers and should normally work for both, just unzip it into a folder and run it.

    https://taosoft.dk/software/freeware/dnd_nvd/DnD_For_NVidia_Denoiser_1.000_NET4.zip

    Select the path to one of the denoisers (the folder that contains the Denoiser.exe), then you can just drop your renders from Explorer onto the app and it will create a denoised version of them in the same folder.

     

    OMG...this is GREAT!!!!

    I've tried it out on one of my first renders, with a looot of noise (more noise than render actually xD), and it looks almost acceptable!

    Of course, it's even better with higher quality renders, thank you so much guys!

    Everyone should try this out, maybe one day we'll see it integrated in Daz itself! :D

     

     

    Actually, a denoiser has been in the newest beta for quite awhile now :). But only for Nvidia users and only if the rendering was taking place on the gfx card. If it drops to cpu rendering the denoiser doesn't work, so being able to use these denoiser(s) is a bonus ;).

    Laurie

    Well I guess that answers my question (didn't see your post before after posting mine). No nVidia denoise without an nVidia card.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,010
    Taoz said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    Padone said:

    Honestly I can't understand what's the fuss here. Denoising has always been available via Photoshop or GIMP or most video editors for animations. As for Iray denoising it's in the beta. So if you don't have a nVidia card you can anyway use it on the CPU.

    So you can use the nVidia denoiser without an nVidia card?

    Well, just tried, doesn't work here:


     

    Right, the nVidia denoiser needs a (supported) nVidia card.

    I imagine Padone may have meant that the DS beta supports the nVidia denoiser in question here (or a version of it), so you can apply it also in CPU only rendering. I have 4.11 installed on a PC without an nVidia card, in DS I can see a "Post Denoiser Available" under Filtering, which probably is that. However, I get this error message if I enable it:

    2019-03-23 15:52:00.782 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\pluginsource\DzIrayRender\dzneuraymgr.cpp(304): Iray WARNING - module:category(POST:RENDER):   1.0   POST   rend warn : Postprocessing is running on the CPU, but Denoiser is requested. Denoising is not available on CPU.

    The message seems unclear - I wonder if I need to install some plugin, or it just don't work with CPU only?

    ETA: does apparently not work with CPU only, you'll need a compatible nVidia card..

    Yes, I'm not sure whether that's in the release notes or if it was a message from Rob flagging a forum thread but it is true that the denoiser is a feature that absolutely needs nVidia hardware support, unlike the rest of Iray where it benefits from nVidia hardware but will run without.

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    AllenArt said:
    kameneko said:
    Taoz said:
    kameneko said:

    This is very interesting, but I'm not understanding how to do that and if I can, is there any guide for noobs like me?

    You can use either the nVidia or the Intel denoiser:

    Intel - https://github.com/DeclanRussell/IntelOIDenoiser/releases

    Nvidia - https://github.com/DeclanRussell/NvidiaAIDenoiser/releases

    Just extract the zip(s) to your HDD.

    This DragNDrop app makes it easy to use the denoisers and should normally work for both, just unzip it into a folder and run it.

    https://taosoft.dk/software/freeware/dnd_nvd/DnD_For_NVidia_Denoiser_1.000_NET4.zip

    Select the path to one of the denoisers (the folder that contains the Denoiser.exe), then you can just drop your renders from Explorer onto the app and it will create a denoised version of them in the same folder.

     

    OMG...this is GREAT!!!!

    I've tried it out on one of my first renders, with a looot of noise (more noise than render actually xD), and it looks almost acceptable!

    Of course, it's even better with higher quality renders, thank you so much guys!

    Everyone should try this out, maybe one day we'll see it integrated in Daz itself! :D

     

     

    Actually, a denoiser has been in the newest beta for quite awhile now :). But only for Nvidia users and only if the rendering was taking place on the gfx card. If it drops to cpu rendering the denoiser doesn't work, so being able to use these denoiser(s) is a bonus ;).

    Laurie

    I'm using the beta!

    The post denoiser works fine, but it slows my render time, and sometimes it gives me artifacts, like with some mirror textures!

    This version, on the other hand, just takes a couple of seconds and it gives the same results I guess!

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,908

    I used the included denoiser with the beta and the one thing I disliked was that you had to tell it when to do the denoising by pixel samples.  So if you image does NOT reach that many samples, it does not denoise.

    I also find the Intel denoiser does a far better job than the nvidia one.  Imho, its no contest

  • hjakehjake Posts: 895
    edited March 2019
    3dOutlaw said:

    The new Daz Studio Beta integrates the Nvidia denoiser, that really speeds up renders times by calculating out the noise (that's my simple explanation of it)  The downside is that you need a Nvidia card, and a card/driver combination that works.  So some will be lucky, but others...no. (or you update your driver, and screw the whole things up, like I did...)

    Thank you for sharing :-)

    Post edited by hjake on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    Mattymanx said:

    I used the included denoiser with the beta and the one thing I disliked was that you had to tell it when to do the denoising by pixel samples.  So if you image does NOT reach that many samples, it does not denoise.

    I also find the Intel denoiser does a far better job than the nvidia one.  Imho, its no contest

    This encourages me to try the Intel denoiser when I get a chance. I have the 4.11 beta running and have tried the NVidia denoiser but the results look like a soft-focus filter - too much of the fine detail and specularity is lost the moment the denoiser kicks in.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,169

    The denoiser in the DS beta gives a sort of "painterly" look to a render that I still haven't decided if I like or not. LOL Some days I do, some days I don't :P

    Laurie

  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 2,585
    Padone said:

    Honestly I can't understand what's the fuss here. Denoising has always been available via Photoshop or GIMP or most video editors for animations.

    Denoising is an area in which technology always has an opportunity to improve. It's not a simple process like a Gaussian Blur or a Contrast adjust where you'll get basically the same results from new technology or old technology (as long as the programmer hasn't outright screwed up), huge leaps can be made in how one differentiates signal and noise.

    Denoisers created specifically for ray-tracing noise (of which both of these are) with the power of modern AI technologies behind them are going to absolutely massacre previous generic denoising implementations on this task. There's no contest between what these can do and what my (admittedly not the latest) version of Photoshop does when presented with the same image.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,364
    AllenArt said:

    The denoiser in the DS beta gives a sort of "painterly" look to a render that I still haven't decided if I like or not. LOL Some days I do, some days I don't :P

    Laurie

    You only get that look straight after the denoiser kicks in (assuming the number of cycles when it starts is low). If you let the render continue then the details you would have got without the denoiser will start to return, and eventually the render is very similar regardless if the denoiser kicked in or not. Naturally if the render looks the same only after running for the time you normally would run it for, then the question is what is the point of the denoiser? The answer is that it cleans up those hard to light up dark areas in the scene without having to wait for hours. Of course you can also achieve this using the software solutions mentioned in this thread.

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118

    I don't have an Intel CPU, so I'm going for the Nvidia denoiser!

    Yes, it looks "painterly" to me too! And it slows the render down quite a bit!

  • SamanthieSamanthie Posts: 308
    edited March 2019

    I could not run either version. The drag and drop file was stopped and removed by Norton. When I try to run the nvidia or intel it just blinks real quick and is gone. 

    Post edited by Samanthie on
  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 2,585
    edited March 2019
    kameneko said:

    I don't have an Intel CPU, so I'm going for the Nvidia denoiser!

    I'm surprised if it's Intel specific. While it's made by Intel, if I remember my jargon, I think the listed requirements are all stuff that's covered under the patent sharing agreement that Intel and AMD have regarding the x64 and x86 architectures and their extensions, so I would have thought it should be able to run on a sufficently modern AMD CPU.

    Post edited by Matt_Castle on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,941
    Samanthie said:

    I could not run either version. The drag and drop file was stopped and removed by Norton. When I try to run the nvidia or intel it just blinks real quick and is gone. 

    The DnD app code is obfuscated, that makes some AV programs suspicious. Just add it to Norton's exclude list, it's safe. I always scan my apps at virustotal.com before releasing them, you can see the report here, even Norton (= Symantec) says it's clean there :

    https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/99170d9f5bec7f864d977d76053f6abc0ec6ca7e2e3c5c43d5b24a6f8ec6efba/detection

    You can't run the denoiser.exe files just by double clicking them, you must run them from a command line. The first post in this thread explains how.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    Havos said:
    AllenArt said:

    The denoiser in the DS beta gives a sort of "painterly" look to a render that I still haven't decided if I like or not. LOL Some days I do, some days I don't :P

    Laurie

    You only get that look straight after the denoiser kicks in (assuming the number of cycles when it starts is low). If you let the render continue then the details you would have got without the denoiser will start to return, and eventually the render is very similar regardless if the denoiser kicked in or not. Naturally if the render looks the same only after running for the time you normally would run it for, then the question is what is the point of the denoiser? The answer is that it cleans up those hard to light up dark areas in the scene without having to wait for hours. Of course you can also achieve this using the software solutions mentioned in this thread.

    Thanks for this explanation - I wasn't aware that was the case. As you say, if we have to wait for the denoised version to regain the detail then it kind of defeats the point but I'll bear it in mind when I have those dark and grainy nooks. I'm still keen to compare the Intel software though.

  • SamanthieSamanthie Posts: 308
    Taoz said:
    Samanthie said:

    I could not run either version. The drag and drop file was stopped and removed by Norton. When I try to run the nvidia or intel it just blinks real quick and is gone. 

    The DnD app code is obfuscated, that makes some AV programs suspicious. Just add it to Norton's exclude list, it's safe. I always scan my apps at virustotal.com before releasing them, you can see the report here, even Norton (= Symantec) says it's clean there :

    https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/99170d9f5bec7f864d977d76053f6abc0ec6ca7e2e3c5c43d5b24a6f8ec6efba/detection

    You can't run the denoiser.exe files just by double clicking them, you must run them from a command line. The first post in this thread explains how.

    Ok Taoz thank you! Will try again. 

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited March 2019

    I've downloaded the Intel version and am trying to integrate that Windows Registy script which gives it the Right-Click option but I notice that it only seems to support .jpg files. Can I just change "%1.denoised.jpg" to "%1.denoised.png" or is there no support for png?

     

    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

    [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shell\denoise]
    @="Denoise"

    [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shell\denoise\Command]
    @="cmd /c \"C:\\neural\\Denoiser\\DENOISER.exe -i \"%1\" -o \"%1.denoised.jpg\"\""

    --------------------------------

    EDIT: Ah, no. Seems I can't use it for .png files. I have the correct path to where I put DENOISER.EXE (C:\Intel\Denoiser\Denoiser.exe) but when I try to run the right-click option I get an error telling me that there is no app associated with this file. I never use .jpg renders (always .png) so I would welcme suggestions.

    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

    [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shell\denoise]
    @="Denoise"

    [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shell\denoise\Command]
    @="cmd /c \"C:\Intel\Denoiser\Denoiser.exe -i \"%1\" -o \"%1.denoised.png\"\""

    !!!

    SECOND EDIT ... 

    It seems the double backslashes in the cmd path are crucial - I had thought them superfluous but what do I know? PNG files work fine now.

    !!!

    Post edited by marble on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    Meh, the Intel version also has that soft-focus issue similar to the NVidia denoiser. Ah well.

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    kameneko said:

    I don't have an Intel CPU, so I'm going for the Nvidia denoiser!

    Yes, it looks "painterly" to me too! And it slows the render down quite a bit!

    The intel denoiser only needs SSE4.1 support. Which means any CPU after 2011 from AMD. If your CPU is not too old, that should work

     

    marble said:

    SECOND EDIT ... 

    It seems the double backslashes in the cmd path are crucial - I had thought them superfluous but what do I know? PNG files work fine now.

    Yup. Double backslash is important. Also, as you found out, you can use any supported output format by just changing the .jpg extension to whatever you like

  • Blind OwlBlind Owl Posts: 501

    Hmm, the DND utility hangs when I drop a .jpg file onto it (see attached screenshot). The error message would seem to suggest that Optix acceleration is needed for the denoiser to work (Y/N?), but if that's the case I don't know how to enable it outside of DS.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated, because this does look handy.

    Image1.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 326K
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,941
    Havos said:
    AllenArt said:

    The denoiser in the DS beta gives a sort of "painterly" look to a render that I still haven't decided if I like or not. LOL Some days I do, some days I don't :P

    Laurie

    You only get that look straight after the denoiser kicks in (assuming the number of cycles when it starts is low). If you let the render continue then the details you would have got without the denoiser will start to return, and eventually the render is very similar regardless if the denoiser kicked in or not.

    Haven't tried the DS denoiser but if you run the nVidia denoiser on a very quick/noisy render it will also get a painterly look.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,941
    Blind Owl said:

    Hmm, the DND utility hangs when I drop a .jpg file onto it (see attached screenshot). The error message would seem to suggest that Optix acceleration is needed for the denoiser to work (Y/N?), but if that's the case I don't know how to enable it outside of DS.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated, because this does look handy.

    You get this error if you don't have a compatible nVidia card installed, but it could also have other causes.

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,700
    Taoz said:

    I imagine Padone may have meant that the DS beta supports the nVidia denoiser in question here (or a version of it), so you can apply it also in CPU only rendering.

    My bad .. I was supposing the 4.11 denoiser to be available both for gpu and cpu rendering. Didn't know it works with gpu only.

    Matt_Castle said:

    Denoisers created specifically for ray-tracing noise (of which both of these are) with the power of modern AI technologies behind them are going to absolutely massacre previous generic denoising implementations on this task. There's no contest between what these can do and what my (admittedly not the latest) version of Photoshop does when presented with the same image.

    On the denoiser page itself I found that it works best when providing all the rendering buffers. So I supposed that applying it to just jpeg images was probably as good as Photoshop or GIMP. But if you did tests and found it better of course I trust your word here. Also I agree that denoising technology may improve over time.

    https://openimagedenoise.github.io/

     

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,941
    edited March 2019
    Taoz said:
    Blind Owl said:

    Hmm, the DND utility hangs when I drop a .jpg file onto it (see attached screenshot). The error message would seem to suggest that Optix acceleration is needed for the denoiser to work (Y/N?), but if that's the case I don't know how to enable it outside of DS.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated, because this does look handy.

    You get this error if you don't have a compatible nVidia card installed, but it could also have other causes.

    You could try the Intel version instead, the DnD app seems to work for ít also, and some say that's it better.

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,908
    Taoz said:

    You could try the Intel version instead, the DnD app seems to work for ít also, and some say that's it better.

    I can confirm that the DnD does work with the Intel denoiser and that the Intel one is far better.

     

  • Blind OwlBlind Owl Posts: 501

     

     

    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    Blind Owl said:

    Hmm, the DND utility hangs when I drop a .jpg file onto it (see attached screenshot). The error message would seem to suggest that Optix acceleration is needed for the denoiser to work (Y/N?), but if that's the case I don't know how to enable it outside of DS.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated, because this does look handy.

    You get this error if you don't have a compatible nVidia card installed, but it could also have other causes.

    You could try the Intel version instead, the DnD app seems to work for ít also, and some say that's it better.

    Thanks. Both my cards are NVidia (1080 TI, 1080 GTX) and work fine with Iray in DS, so card compatibility isn't the problem. I'll try the Intel version as you suggest & see what happens.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,941
    Blind Owl said:

     

     

    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    Blind Owl said:

    Hmm, the DND utility hangs when I drop a .jpg file onto it (see attached screenshot). The error message would seem to suggest that Optix acceleration is needed for the denoiser to work (Y/N?), but if that's the case I don't know how to enable it outside of DS.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated, because this does look handy.

    You get this error if you don't have a compatible nVidia card installed, but it could also have other causes.

    You could try the Intel version instead, the DnD app seems to work for ít also, and some say that's it better.

    Thanks. Both my cards are NVidia (1080 TI, 1080 GTX) and work fine with Iray in DS, so card compatibility isn't the problem. I'll try the Intel version as you suggest & see what happens.

    Maybe your driver is too old:

    "As with the upgrade to OptiX 6.0.0 you will now require an Nvidia driver of at least 418.xx or higher and an Nvidia GPU of Maxwell architecture (Geforce 700 series) or higher."

    https://github.com/DeclanRussell/NvidiaAIDenoiser/releases

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