Science Fantasy
XoechZ
Posts: 1,102
Hello!
Currently I ran a bit out of inspiration with my render projects. So I sat down and thought about some new themes I could work on. Then I had the idea to mix fantasy and sci-fi themes. Mostly because these are my two main interests when it comes to cg art. And my library is full of items belonging to these genres.
I did a quick internet search about that special genre mix and found out that this is named "Science Fantasy" (Wikipedia). It is used sometimes in literature, but even there it is not very popular. People seem to like either this or that. But mixing sci-fi and fantasy seems to be a problem.
Is it really? To me there are no rules or taboos in art, so why not? :-)
But first I would like to know what you think about it? Can you imagine successfully working on such themes? Has anyone of you tried it already? How would you start and work on such a project? What would be the fantasy part and how would you include sci-fi elements to it (or vice versa)?
Any kind of input on this is very welcome!
Thanks.
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Comments
It's not a bad idea. The various fantasy races and creatures are good analogs for alien races. You could mix magic and technology together so they are interdependent on each other, like space ships that run by spells and magic reservoirs instead of fuel. Elves could be the most technologically advanced with goblin and orcs being more primitive with their vessels.
I like mixing them in my writing sometimes, but you have to understand that for readers, if people want to read science fiction, that's what they want, Same thing for fantasy. And there probably aren't a lot of people who can do it well enough to draw in both sets of fans.
I don't see where any of that has any bearing on your artwork, however.
Do a search for Shadowrun. That was one of the first popular RPGs to mix Science and Fantasy. These days it has morphed more towards the gothic steampunk sort of genre.
You can also look at some of the pulp fictions for inspiration. A significant amount of the original Flash Gordon could be considered Science Fantasy. The same can be said for the Princess of Mars (Barsoom) series, but that was more written word than comic strip.
Shadowrun leaned more towards the fantasy side.
Flash Gordon / Barsoom leaned more towards the science side.
Hm, the first thing I thought about was Thor - The Movie. Thor himself, with his armor, the cape and Mjolnir is a typical fantasy character. However Asgard and especially the Bifrost are pure sci-fi constructions. And now I know what I did not like about this movie :-) I am a big fan of nordic mythology and I know much about it, but I was really disappointed with Marvels version of Asgard.
Currently I am playing around with different items in DAZ Studio. It is really hard to find something that makes sense and allows a good image composition. That is really a challenge. But at least, my inspiration and motivation is back :-)
Most popular SF is really Science Fantasy - perhaps debatable for Star Trek, but Star Wars and Doctor Who certainly if not ostensibly.
Burroughs' work had no fantasy elements for his day. It just has more and less plausible sci fi. At least, that's how I remember it. ;). I am wrong more often than I'm uncertain.
The Warhammer universe is basically science fantasy. Someone has mentioned Shadowrun. I kinda like the cyber magic concept there.
In other settings it's more common to have magic used instead of tech, as in D&D in Faerun, or have tech/bio explanations for fantasy things, as Star Wars does in its present incarnations. Otherwise you eventually run up against logistical problems and had better have a good explanation for how any spell equivalent can be cast as fast as a gun can be fired (for instance). The gun is to science fantasy as cell phones were to the slasher genre initially: not insurmountable, but needing to be creatively addressed.
Oh, I love the images popping up in my head right now!
It has been done in MMO's and other games, the SF and fantasy crossover.
I also feel it's more and more intergrated in todays fantasy, like in Thor 2.
I'm not a big SF fan, but you can wake me up for a good fantasy story, may it be a good book, movie or a game.
It's the pew pew pew thing I don't usually like in most SF.
But a crossover I do like, if it's done tastefully.
Indeed, Final Fantasy did a nice job there!
One of my favorite Images I ever did was Science Fantasy... I was even asked for more along that line.. Here it is, remember it's pretty old...
Title: God's of futures past
Thare are a lot of old novels that have that type of universe and I always like that type of world
I can think of many references
If you played RPG there is Warhammer 40 000
There are many anime that also fall in the category. I recall of Space Legend Ulysses 31 which was a remake of the greek mythology of Odysseus. My favorite would be space adventure cobra
On TV Star trek , Star wars are good examples and I"ll add Stargate
In video games the reference is Final Fantasy which always mixed Fantasy and Sci Fi. I'll also mention Chrono Trigger which is my favorite RPG of all time
Good inspiration for science fantasy would be Edgar Rice Burroughs" Barsoom and Caspak series, John Norman, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's The Lost World. Mark Schultz' Xenozoic Tales, Flash Gordon. Any of those would be good examples of Science Fantasy.
All generalizations are false, including this one. That being said, to my way of thinking, any story/novel/movie that makes the science believable, and makes you think about deep philosophical or social issues is science fiction. "I Robot" was a classic piece of science fiction ... and then they made a movie out of it. :sick: OTOH, "2001, A Space Odyssey" is a fine piece of science fiction made into a fine movie. Anything where science takes a back seat to magic is fantasy. Stories where heroic deeds and high adventure make science and magic secondary are also fantasy, IMO. Of course the lines are very blurry. Most of the classic SciFi films of the 1950s are actually horror. In this case, the horror aspect trumps the science, no matter how believable the science part is. I'm thinking the Alien saga. I would tend to put most of Edgar Rice Burroughs in the fantasy or science fantasy realm, because he didn't use enough science. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea may be an exception. It's OK to have fantastic science, as long as it's well thought out and makes sense. Here are a few of my samplings on the subject:
Conan the Barbarian - Fantasy, pure fantasy, no science needed. Throw in Red Sonja too (please!).
2001 - Science fiction (a landmark)
Robinson Crusoe on Mars - Science fiction (a very under-rated movie)
Blade Runner - Science fiction (One of the finest ever made)
John Carter - Science Fantasy
Minority report - Science fiction (well done, IMO)
Dune - Science Fantasy (blurring the lines, here. Dune is more about a heroic saga, but the science is very well done.)
Star Wars - Fantasy (no need for science, use the force!)
Star Trek - Science fiction, but mostly adventure (Think Wagon Train to the Stars)
Anything where science enables a dramatic situation or creates a dystopia (think Soylent Green) is science fiction to me. Of course, when science goes terribly wrong, you've got horror (Frankenstein, The Fly, Godzilla, Them!). Have I muddied the waters enough? Good!
:lol:
That about sums it up for me. At the end of the day, there are no clear-cut distinctions, but when the piece of work in question seriously attempts to provide some form of scientific rationalization for various aspects of the universe it depicts, or otherwise prompts you to ask questions of that nature, then it's science fiction, whereas if it's just an adventure-type story, then it's fantasy, even if you've got all sorts of hi-tech stuff in your story. And as I see it these are the two ends of what would be a continuous spectrum.
And frankly, by the way, I sometimes wonder if we're not being oversaturated with commercial fantasy merchandise today, from blockbuster movies to DAZ/Poser items. ;-) Day in day out we're bombarded with such things. Could this be a sign of the times? I find myself almost numbed by such things nowadays; their impact is largely gone for me, because I encounter them so often.
You can actually find much that's delightful in works of art and/or literature that are neither sci-fi nor fantasy, but are based on the real world we live in. Take PEANUTS. Charlie Brown is IMO a character who's far more interesting and has far more depth and personality than Luke Skywalker or Frodo Baggins. He's not a hero who's out to save the world or galaxy or whatever; he's just a human being trying to work out his personal weaknesses and relationships with others. Yet I find his stories fully entertaining (and thought-provoking). And he's FUNNY, unlike Luke or Frodo.
Ah, well, to each his/her own...
First, you have to decide how to define 'ordinary' science-fiction, as opposed to 'hard' science-fiction. :)
A famous writer once pointed out that 'Alien', contrary to popular opinion, doesn't, in fact, qualify as 'hard' science-fiction, whereas the sequel, 'Aliens', very much does. Why? Because you could essentially transpose the setting and characters of the first movie into, say, a haunted ship or house setting and it would work exactly the same - whereas the sequel requires certain elements of fantastical science in order to work, as a story (it literally wouldn't work without being set on another planet, a nuclear reactor slowly malfunctioning and so on).
However, with that in mind, there's a great book on this very subject which I'm presently wading through and would highly recommend:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003VYC9FQ/ref=rdr_kindle_ext_tmb
It deals with precisely this very subject; what makes something belong in 'science-fiction', 'fantasy' and other categories and what happens when you combine them. Very much in layman's terms and I'm presently finding it very informative.
However... Personally, I'd say something qualifies as 'science-fiction fantasy' when it begins to mix the elements of fictional/advanced technology and stuff like magic - and, ideally, not explaining away the magical component as merely the result of technology, but as what it really seems to be. At that point, you can have vampires, zombies, necromancers, ancient gods, etcetera, duking it out (or happily co-existing) with characters using recognisable technology - or doing so, themselves.
'Warhammer' is one of the most well-known and successful examples of this. It also has two different settings: One in the ancient, mediaeval age and one set in the far future, which just goes to show that science-fiction doesn't need to be set in the future (the very first 'Back To The Future' film is also a great instance of that). The other is set much further in the future and has spaceships, lots of genocidal military hardware and all of it sitting alongside some fairly powerful Lovecraftian-inspired themes
The other would, of course, be 'Star Wars' - and the prequels demonstrate what happened when you take the philosophical principles of the warrior monk and try to explain them away ('the Force' being hand-waved away as microscopic organisms), which most of the audience disliked with good reason. The original trilogy would be a better example of what happens when you mix apparent magic with a futuristic science-fiction setting.
So, absolutely, yes! It can be highly successful! Especially in art! As with anything, you just have to do it right and learn from what the best examples of the genre have to offer.
After all, it wasn't too long ago when most people would have assumed that action isn't a great fit for science-fiction, either. But along came the 'Starship Troopers' novel, 'The Terminator', 'Aliens', 'Predator' and so on.
If you want to then combine 'fantasy' with 'supernatural', then there's also 'Event Horizon'. I won't spoil what happens for anyone who hasn't watched it before, but it's one of the most realistic movies I've seen which combines aspects of the demonic world with a spooky derelict spaceship setting. Plus, the 'Doom' games, of course, which represent science-fiction technology being twisted and corrupted by demonic forces for their own infernal uses.
The geek in me has to post this... 20,000 Leagues was Jules Verne, not Edgar Rice Burroughs.
Jules Verne was definitely Science Fiction for the most part. Except for when he got hung up on social commentary.
H.G. Wells falls into the same area. Lots of Science fiction except for the social commentary. But that was a different time and it was only safe to publish these types of commentaries when hidden in a fantastic (noun not adjective) story.
Pardon my confusion. :red: Incorrect attribution, but the same conclusion. Social commentary, taken to excess can ruin a story.
Alien is your basic monster-loose-on-the-ship routine. It just happens to be in space. The second movie is where the biology of the creature really comes into the story. The science becomes part of the story. When the first Alien came out, there were comments that it was the same plot as "It, the Terror From Beyond Space" if you take away the face-hugger and the breakfast scene. :gulp:
Cartoon characters live with us so long, they become part of the family. There's a Charlie Brown in all of us. Personally, I identify more with Dilbert. :lol: I'd rather not have Alien become part of the family, thank you very much...
The geek in me had to make that correction.
The original Shape of Things to Come is one of my favorite movies. Yet it is so all over the place that it can barely be called a movie. And it was almost all social commentary.
or indeed vice versa.
or indeed vice versa.
xD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpcEi_6ZMHc
Have you ever considered taking part in the "Freebie Challenge" over in the General Freepozitory forum? I think this would make an excellent monthly theme, and there are still some months available in 2014.
(Earlier this year, I did "retro sci-fi" as a theme, and it was well-received. I'd think "science fantasy" would be just as popular.)
A good example of this would be the Technomages of Babylon 5 who used "science to create the appearance of magic". Also much of the writings of Andre Norton (Alice Mary Norton) were a combination of science and fantasy – see “ Key out of time” http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/19651/pg19651.txt
There is a DnD (3.0) setting called DragonStar. It is literally Science Fantasy, where your typical fantasy worlds progressed (or were progressed) to advanced technological age without losing an actual magic or substituting it for psionics as it sometimes a case. Unlike Spelljammer, which was quite a lot like Fantasy in Space! DragonStar is better developed and you can play all kind of themes in it, from space western with elves, to dystopian hiveworlds, to planetary romance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonstar
The good old classic X-files held both SciFi and Fantasy elements. Then there's all those Twilight-esque seriers that keeps popping up all the time, they seem mostly like being Urban Fantasy, but with a bit of Cyberpunk thrown into it. (Mortal Instruments, Illuminati et cetera)
Two words: Ant Men. That was clearly when Burroughs jumped the thark.
And actually, a good bit of the modern paranormal genre smashes sci-fi, fantasy and horror all together into an uber-grenre that is frequently crossed with Romance as well.
One very successful example is Kim Harrison's series of Hollows book, which began with Dead Witch Walking, and is based on a premise in which a pandemic started by a strain of genetically altered tomatoes wipes out half the human race and, as a result, exposes the Vampires, Witches, Demons & other mythological creatures that have lived hidden among the normal humans because they're immune to the plague and who end up holding civilization together (usually for their own benefit,) until humanity recovers. To a lesser extent, Charlaine Harris's Southern Vampire series (better known to most by it's TV series name, True Blood,) also qualifies, as it runs a similar concept where the development of an artificial blood substitute allows vampires to "come out" once that they no longer have to be a predator species, and tosses a main character who's a human telepath into the mix. And, of course, most of the now uber-popular Zombie franchises like The Walking Dead and Resident Evil/Biohazard are horror films built around classic themes but using a sci-fi pretext.
Consider a setting like Marian Zimmer Bradley's "Darkover", which exists in a science-fiction universe (settled by a lost colony ship, recently first-contacted by the galactic civilization), but is a 'low-tech' environment with psionic 'magic' and the full panoply of fantasy tropes.
Two words: Ant Men. That was clearly when Burroughs jumped the thark.
OUCH! That pun HURT!
(Now I'll have to inflict it on some of my friends.)
I have nearly all the books and have often wondered why nobody has done a tv series based on them.
It lends itself to an on going type thing and she herslf has encouraged others do anthologies of stories based on her world.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
'Nuff said...
Science vs magic. Yup. :lol:
Starting working on this render before this thread started. Still working on it.