Why daz do not keep rule which daz changed?

kitakoredaz

After daz release new genesis2, I thought DAZ plan to divide head morph and Full-body morph (under neck part) clear.
then to make the Full character, add one more controlelr (Character) to move only two morph,and scale(if need)

So that we can choose each controller as we want to mix shape (head, under-neck(Full body), character).
when I hope to make the Character , I may use one Character controller.

but basically we may use head morph and Ful-body morph individually, to mix many character shape.,
after that may choose scale as We want.

Dividing Fullbody part( link ERC with bones of under neck part only ) and, Head part (link ERC wit bones of head part)
is really important factor to customize character shape when mixing many moprhs. it is progress.

it can work well if DAZ and vendors keep the rule for all morphs of genesis2.like Victoria6, Gia,Olmpia.
I have not bought girl, but I think it work as same.

I do not expect about morph (not sold in daz shop)
but I expect it, about all morphs which sold in daz shop. I hope so.

I get "Generation 5 Legacy Shapes for Genesis 2 Female"

but all of them first turned to genesis shape.then add new shape with ERC bone translation.

(Ya I think, vendor simply use genesis clone, after that, auto adjust - rigs, set ERC for genesis morph.
then transfer morphs of genesis to gen2female, ,)

there is no morph which change only under neck part.
the product seems return to genesis1 generation regulation, not only about shape.

Zev0

The head and Body morphs are still separate if you look for them under "head" and "full body" under the parameters or shaping tab. There the separate morphs will be found. I think under "people" is the character dial that dials up both morphs. Will check again when I am at my workstation to confirm the locations. The legacy products also contain separate head and body morphs.

kitakoredaz

Zev , No I can not find any Full body morph (it means, change only under neck shape)
about generation 5 figure morph for gen2female. I think it is not product which you made.
but if so, check them please.

then I know, it is discirbed already about this product.

I know it have head morph. but gahter them as one morph to make the generation 5 shape.
there is no Full body morph separated from character.
it is as same as before, genesis1.

Then the worse, if I remove the head shape by using the head shape controller , eg Aiko5 head shape,
it never return to the rig postion as default genesis2female head rigs.

only change head shape and remove delta of rig about genesismorph to genesis2morph.

it means even though I make shape by mix only this products,
the expression easy break.

so that the descirption about this product do not corret.
only head shape can return to genesis2female. if use head morph.(change value to -1 or -100%)

I can separate correlty. or I can re-make and separate as I want.

but think about your morphs,
I buy your morphs to believe it work more than I made, and I believe all vendor have clear knowledge
about their morphs and JCMs.

I hope it can work without many tweaking. so that I hope to buy daz morphs which sold in daz shop.
if I need re-adjust rigs etc, I may not buy . or I hope vendor clearly discribe it about the product.

Slosh

kitakoredaz said:

Zev , No I can not find any Full body morph (it means, change only under neck shape)
about generation 5 figure morph for gen2female. I think it is not product which you made.
but if so, check them please.

then I know, it is discirbed already about this product.

I know it have head morph. but gahter them as one morph to make the generation 5 shape.
there is no Full body morph separated from character.
it is as same as before, genesis1.

Then the worse, if I remove the head shape by using the head shape controller , eg Aiko5 head shape,
it never return to the rig postion as default genesis2female head rigs.

only change head shape and remove delta of rig about genesismorph to genesis2morph.

it means even though I make shape by mix only this products,
the expression easy break.

so that the descirption about this product do not corret.
only head shape can return to genesis2female. if use head morph.(change value to -1 or -100%)

I can separate correlty. or I can re-make and separate as I want.

but think about your morphs,
I buy your morphs to believe it work more than I made, and I believe all vendor have clear knowledge
about their morphs and JCMs.

I hope it can work without many tweaking. so that I hope to buy daz morphs which sold in daz shop.
if I need re-adjust rigs etc, I may not buy . or I hope vendor clearly discribe it about the product.

I am sorry you are having difficulties with this. If you dial in the Aiko 5 Shape listed under Actor:People:Stylized then you will get the full Aiko 5 shape applied to Genesis 2 Female. Then, you must go to Actor:Head:People:Stylized and dial the Aiko 5 Head shape to -1 and it will return the Genesis 2 Female head on Aiko 5 body.

As you can see in my attached picture, Aiko 5 has been dialed in, her head has been dialed out, and G2F has a perfect expression on her face. Maybe if you told me specifically which expressions are not working on this, I can help better.

kitakoredaz

see my pic.
Now I apply girl 4 (it is same if you use other characterh head morph) character preset.
then I hoep to remove only head morph. so that I remove shape by the girl 4 head controlelr.

I simply ask why you do not make these head morph can return default genesis2female rig postion?

it is not problem, when I use some expression controller, it work about some character or not.
I know we often need adjust rig again. but as basic rule,

if use head morph ,it need to return rig positon as default, it is my suggesiton and
I really hope these regural rule are kept by vendor too . (if it is not your rule, I hope so)

I know some product eg (it is expected to make user original head shape)
do not adjust rigs at all. about these product, I do not expect it.

but this product are character (and old generattion morphs) for gensis2female.
then actually you adjust rigs by jcms, so that if you offer head morph, it
should be expected to return head rigs to default postion.

I hope it is not complain. but really hope, you vendors think more, these usability.

Slosh

so that the descirption about this product do not corret.
only head shape can return to genesis2female. if use head morph.(change value to -1 or -100%)

I also want to add that the product description does clearly state that there is a full body shape and a separate head shape. Directly quoting the product description, "Each character shape contains a complete body morph and a separate head morph, which can be dialed out if only the body is required." I didn't mislead anyone by not including that information. I'm sorry if you did not see that and understand that there is no separate body morph. You must remove the head morph to get only the body. I tried this with many combinations of Generation 5 heads and bodies, also combined with Generation 4 and Generation 6 and I had no problems with getting the expressions to work properly. There are even corrective "eye closed" morphs for the shapes.

Slosh

kitakoredaz said:

see my pic.
Now I apply girl 5 (it is same if you use other characterh head morph) character preset.
then I hoep to remove only head morph. so that I remove by the girl 5 head controlelr.

I simply ask why you do not make these head morph can return default genesis2female rig postion?

it is not problem, if I use some expression controller, it work about some character or not.
I know we often need adjust rig again. but as basic rule,
if use head morph ,it need to return rig positon as default, it is my suggesiton and
I really hope these regural rule. (if it is not your rull, I hope so)

I see what you are saying about the bones, but this does not affect the expressions in this case. I have loaded the Girl 4 shape, same as you, and dialed the head to -1, same as you. I checked the bones, and they show the same as you. But as you can see, expression works fine. I guess I just don't understand where you are having trouble. If the expressions work, then there isn't a problem. Are you simply bothered that the bones look like that? They are not affecting anything.

kitakoredaz

I can not believe, if bone arrange not fit to head,it work well. ]

you say expression. ah I say worng. if expression morph do not move rigs, no ERC
there is no meaning.

but if you rotate head or eye, or tongue or joe it work perfectly?
I never believe it.

kitakoredaz

if I use your product head morph, it shold cause like my pic.
how do you think ? and I know you understand what you can.

I do not say you need to up-date these, but you can check more, when
you release new product.

Slosh

kitakoredaz said:

I can not believe, if bone arrange not fit to head,it work well. ]

you say expression. ah I say worng. if expression morph do not move rigs, no ERC
there is no meaning.

but if you rotate head or eye, or tongue or joe it work perfectly?
I never believe it.

Ok. Now I see your problem. I will look into this.

kitakoredaz

Yeah,, I know you understand clear. but I do not hope to say only about this product,,
though I say about this produt,,,,:sick:

I really hope genesis2female character morphs clearly separated about head and body .
and Character morph (move other two morphs) not include rig movements.

if DAZ keep same rule about product, all character morph work as same as DAZ planed.
if it can not, at least Hope to work as same as genesis.

that means, if there is no Full body morph, and offer as character morph and head morph,
head morph can change and remove shape and rig positon as default.
(or if it used other shape, return to the shape and rig postion of the morph)

I bought many chararcter morph for genesis, they work so.
eg Victoria4 or Aiko4 shape head morph can adjust rig shape, and remove the rig positon to default.

but if generation 2 figure morphs mixed old way and new way, as each vendorl ike,
it simply confule me.

icprncss

There are no hard and fast rules. DAZ may do something one way, find there are issues or reasons to change and do so. Current point in fact: Genesis and Genesis 2. DAZ spent a great deal of time and money to produce Genesis, a true unimesh figure that can morph from a child to an adult and from a male to female. 2 years later, they come out with Genesis 2 Female and Male. Now we are back to two separate meshes. One male, one female.

If DAZ had stuck to it's original plans for DS4, there would be 5 versions of it. There would be a web only version and a limited lite version for free. Standard, Advanced, and Pro would be for pay. The cheapest for pay (standard) would have sold for $49.95.

Slosh

I am very happy to report that I sorted the problem. It basically involved starting over, and I am embarrassed that it came to that. The head and body morphs are now completely separate and do not rely on Genesis as a base. A third slider is involved that will dial in the entire character, and then you are free to adjust body and head dials as you wish. Or, you can simply dial in only the head or only the body. The eyes and tongue do not pop out of the head and all eyes open and close perfectly.

I want to thank kitakoredaz from bringing this to my attention. Unfortunately, it is really hard to test every combination of morphs and poses, so things do get missed. It's not a great excuse, but it is true. Had I noticed the eyes popping out, or the tongue, I would certainly have addressed it before releasing the Legacy Shapes. The updates are being submitted to DAZ tomorrow (I want to run some more tests just to be sure) and as soon as they pass retesting, they will be in your accounts.

kitakoredaz, you will be happy to know that the rigging is restored to default when you dial out the head morphs, just as you asked. :)

kitakoredaz

I am happy too. yes,, I actually felt,, you need not to keep linked genesis base shape in these morphs.:)

then,, I did not test with eye untill you asked me where is real problem.
just thought it is not good plan ,when return head morph, it do not reset rig arrangement.

After all, you offer best answer for one user complain. and it is more than my expectation.

I think your prodcut now become true standard genearation4,and5 th morphs for genesis2 in daz shop.
if some one bought them, they feel, all morphs are clean and work as expected;-)

Now I need not make my self each morphs again by TU and clones any more^^;
simply re-install your product, and use them,,