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The secret of the shader mixer

SylvanSylvan Posts: 2,718
edited December 1969 in Daz Studio Discussion

I was talking to my hubby how I will be celebrating my 2 years of using DAZStudio this year.
He asked if the software still has secrets for me.
Defenitely, I answered and than I gave a speech about that thing called shader mixer and the mysteries that it keeps having for me.
After a bunch of tutorials, YouTube movies and nights with wine and chocolate, I drank the wine, ate the chocolate and gave up on the shader mixer.
It's like with the Dodo, I don't really miss it.
So what purpose does it have, what am I missing?

Comments

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 7,822
    edited January 2014

    I found zigraphix's excellent tutorial on shader mixer invaluable in deciphering the basics of bricks. After that you just got to try things. There are also recipes that can prove helpful, but it's really a tinkering kind of learning. Trial and error and then some aha moments.

    http://www.daz3d.com/shader-mixer-tutorial-i

    Thread with recipes and more tutorials

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/42/

    Post edited by FirstBastion on
  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744
    edited December 1969

    Estroyer said:
    It's like with the Dodo, I don't really miss it.
    So what purpose does it have, what am I missing?

    This is the key question...

    First, just a blurb on the word "shader" to make sure everyone who reads this is clear ... a shader is a bit of code that tells the rendering engine (3Delight in DAZ Studio's case) what a surface looks like. So a shader tells the rendering engine "This should look like wood" or "This hair is blonde" (at a very basic level).

    What the Shader Mixer does is to allow the artist to play with creating those bits of code without having to know how to program it. The "bricks" in Shader Mixer represent various functions that happen within a shader. For the most part, it's all about math. :)

    What are you missing?

    Probably not a lot. As long as you have been happy with what you the images you get just by adjusting the existing surface tab parameters, there really isn't a reason to get in to Shader Mixer. Mixer is more for if/when you feel like you can't get the EXACT look you want for a particular surface using the built-in shaders and settings and you need something custom.

    P.S.

    There is another shader tool in DAZ Studio, Shader Builder which (at least in my view) is designed to be a little more low level. It isn't even as "artist friendly" as Shader Mixer and is more oriented toward those who want to learn more about building Renderman compliant shaders. Personally, I use the Builder tool much more than the Mixer tool, but that's because of my particular interests.

  • SylvanSylvan Posts: 2,718
    edited December 1969

    Thanks guys, for the insights!
    So far I am using my surface tab and tweak witihn Lux until I am *fairly* satisfied.
    So the shadermixer is an advanced surface tweaker, or am I being too simple on my approach now?

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744
    edited December 1969

    Estroyer said:

    So the shadermixer is an advanced surface tweaker, or am I being too simple on my approach now?

    That's a good basic view of it. It can do more, and I'm sure the Shader Mixer gurus might argue that it is much more than that. :) But to the average beginner, yes, it just lets you tweak the surfaces beyond the settings in the Surfaces tab.

    So far I am using my surface tab and tweak witihn Lux until I am *fairly* satisfied.


    Now, this is good info as well, because if you are using Luxrender for your rendering engine, then Shader Mixer really doesn't buy you very much at all. Since everything you do in DS gets converted to Lux materials when you export it anyway.

    I would go so far as to say that if you're rendering in Lux (or any other external rendering engine) then you're better off figuring out how to get the most out of that engine's surfaces than spending time on Shader Mixer.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    I really like Shader Mixer, do I understand it fully? No...it frequently causes my brain to melt down. But it's worth perservering with as you can get effects that you might otherwise find difficult...I've been playing with satin's and here are some renders.
    The image with the light effect on the floor is also a shadermixer shader on the floor...

    performance.jpg
    600 x 848 - 144K
    baglets_redbrocade_largeredgoldtangerineb.jpg
    600 x 848 - 235K
    baglets_redbrocade_large.jpg
    600 x 848 - 227K
  • IndigoJansonIndigoJanson Posts: 1,100
    edited December 1969

    Those are beautiful, Pendraia. Maybe I need to join Estroyer and give shader mixer another look.....

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    Jindi said:
    Those are beautiful, Pendraia. Maybe I need to join Estroyer and give shader mixer another look.....

    Thanks....if I ever get them to a point where I'm happy I will look at either selling or giving them away, but that is a way off yet.
  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,897
    edited December 1969

    Looking good Pen.

    Poser material in DS on the left, Shader Mixer equivalent on the right, this is what the Shader Mixer is all about for me. The ability to recreate Poser materials so that my content looks how it's meant to, the ability to get creative, and not to be restricted to using hardcoded one trick pony shaders.

    Shader_Mixer.jpg
    767 x 647 - 213K
  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744
    edited December 1969

    Bejaymac said:
    Looking good Pen.

    Poser material in DS on the left, Shader Mixer equivalent on the right, this is what the Shader Mixer is all about for me. The ability to recreate Poser materials so that my content looks how it's meant to, the ability to get creative, and not to be restricted to using hardcoded one trick pony shaders.

    That's a good point, Bejaymac. For people who have used Poser in the past, another way to think of Shader Mixer is that it is the DS equivalent to the Poser "Material Room" (iirc).
  • SylvanSylvan Posts: 2,718
    edited December 1969

    Impressive results, really beautiful!
    Interesting (and I should have known) that the shader mixer isn't much of an extra when using external renderers.
    Lately though, I have seen the internal renderer of Studio doing much impressive things, especially with skins and fabrics, which was lacking a bit some years ago.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Bejaymac...

    Estroyer said:
    Impressive results, really beautiful!
    Interesting (and I should have known) that the shader mixer isn't much of an extra when using external renderers.
    Lately though, I have seen the internal renderer of Studio doing much impressive things, especially with skins and fabrics, which was lacking a bit some years ago.

    The shaders used need to be designed specifically for the renderer being used...the last few years I think people have become better at working with and creating renderman based shaders and DAZ have improved what we can access in ds through Shadermixer and other shading systems.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    and DAZ have improved what we can access in ds through Shadermixer and other shading systems.

    ++1

    I've been hacking RSL shaders in DAZ for a while...and it is much easier now. Plus, I don't even have to go that route with both Mixer and Builder. Although I do wish that Mixer gave the option to compile the final result as a 'standard' shader...and that you could set the optimization level for the compile.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    Pendraia said:
    and DAZ have improved what we can access in ds through Shadermixer and other shading systems.

    ++1

    I've been hacking RSL shaders in DAZ for a while...and it is much easier now. Plus, I don't even have to go that route with both Mixer and Builder. Although I do wish that Mixer gave the option to compile the final result as a 'standard' shader...and that you could set the optimization level for the compile.That would be good and also hopefully allow for it to show without rendering...which I think is a big issue for many.

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