Open as Layer - Paint Shop Pro X6 - SOLVED
McKinnan
Posts: 0
I am STUMPED and very frustrated with the Corel forums which basically don't work at all and have Googled more variations of this question than I can count and have not found an answer.
Here's the deal... I purchased Paint Shop Pro X6 for post work on my DAZ stuff. Looks like a great program and I noticed some of you more experienced folks use it. I did not want to pay the price for PS and I just don't like GIMP.
The main reason I purchased was to employ a trick I had learned from a tutorial - render out individual targets in your scene with the exact same camera settings. Go to you image editor and re-combine everything using Screen layers. Magically, this "screen layer" mode re-combines knowing what is behind and in front of what. It's a great trick that can save me a bunch of rendering time.
This trick works in GIMP, but when I try to do it in PSP, I can see through each layer to objects that should be "behind" a character and thus hidden.
In GIMP, I use the "open as layer" command. I open my image then define the layer mode as Screen. I do this on a second image and things work perfectly.
I cannot seem to find the same function in PSP so am copy/pasting original BMP files onto a New PSP file. PSP then creates a layer for that Paste and I define the layer as Screen. Am I doing something wrong?
I guess I could just do what I want in GIMP and then transfer that to PSP, but it just seems like PSP should have this function. They have Screen Mode in their layer mode options, so I'm thinking it must be something I'm doing wrong.
Hope it's OK to ask this question here. You guys are the only ones I know who actually answer in a reasonable amount of time.
Many thanks in advance!!
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Comments
The only Screen I know in PaintShop Pro is a Layer blend, It blends the colours of two layers and lightens the resulting mixed colour
Thanks for the reply adzan.
To add multiple elements to a picture with layers I would export each image using the transparent png format and then reassemble the image in PaintShop Pro.
This wouldn't use blending layers so you wouldn't see through each image item, unless that's the effect you're after
OK... I can give that a try. Thank you!
Still... it seems like if it's available in GIMP and PS, it should be available in PSP. Maybe I'm being naive.
In Photoshop, if you set the layer mode to screen it does indeed turn the layer semi transparent. So PSP is working in the same way as PS does in this case.
Screen is the opposite of Multiply - with Screen, black on the top layer leaves the underlayer unchanged and any other colour lightens it.
Lord I love this forum and how people try to help so quickly.
I realize now that I need to post some images to help me communicate. I will do that when I get home tonight. Thank you all :-)
When I'm combining renders in PSP, I've rendered the same scene two or more times, with one or more characters missing from each render, as my system is low on memory. What I do is load each one as a new layer, arrange the layer order, and then erase the parts of the top render(s) to show what's underneath. This is just using the eraser brush. I avoid overlapping shadows, and other complications that might make it impossible to layer properly. I've never tried Screen mode. You learn something new every day! I tend to have a real set in the background, so I don't think transparent PNG would work there.
The other thing that occurs to me on this subject is that in PSP, you can create a mask layer and make a masked group out of one or more layers. It might accomplish the same thing. I might want to try that. The render I just did for SciFi Aiko was done by erasing layers. If I make a mask layer, I could re-render the real layers, and just apply the mask to the layer that needs it without repeating the erasing again. If I want to change the lighting in that scene, having a PSP file with the mask layer would eliminate repeating the erasing steps. In this case, the erasing only took a few minutes. One time I did a scene where I had to erase between a characters fingers. That was tedious.
You are correct about transparent pngs and backgrounds, If i'm compositing I don't render with a background.
If I had backgrounds I would use either: masks, the background erasure tool or the object extractor tool depending on how much I needed to remove
The Smart Selection tool is quite good in PSP X6 so that's another way of quickly removing items.
Forgive me if someone else has already said this. I didn't see anyone mention it specifically.
To make a composite of layers, like when you render each light separately or perhaps the characters separate from the background props, start with a black background. I open each new image, Ctrl-C to copy then switch to the composite image and Ctrl-L to paste as layer. Each added layer is set to screen and the % opacity adjusted to taste.
...AoA's atmospheric cameras has a depth mask feature. Not sure if that would help.
Thank you all. Thought a picture might help.
This is what is happening to my composite.
I start with a new transparent layer and set it's background color to black. Let's call that the base PSP file.
I open a rendered file (BMP), select All and copy paste into my base PSP file. It creates a new layer and I set that layer to Screen.
I open a second rendered file (BMP) and do the same process. I set that layer also to screen.
See how the second render is transparent where it should be actually "hiding" what is behind it?
Again...this process works fine in GIMP and I've seen someone do it in PhotoShop.
That's how screen works, it blends. Does PSP have layer masks?
/edit
You also have 2 layers set to screen with a transparent background layer. Set that background layer to black and see what happens.
Basic renders used for the exercise..
Used PSP X6
It's not good.. needs fiddling...
I would rather save out as PNG files.. much easier and faster..
Just open the first image that meant to be bottommost, no need to mess with "new file" and "what-tha-hell-that-base-layer-gotta-look". But before that render your images in png or tiff. (These file formats keep alpha channels.) Leave the base layer as is if you do not need to add a new background or like that.
I cannot tell for shure how it works in PSP but in PS there is couple ways with similar result by the end. In common you use second image alpha channel as its mask to extract the object from the gray (in general for DS, it depends on circumstances) background. In case of PS and PSP "Screen" is a mode for blending, like hell lot of other modes (better read\watch about layer blending modes and some basics of composing). Both layers should be in "Normal" mode.
What the "Screen" means in GIMP I have no idea, this software was created for linux geeks to mantain the idea of free software, not for image processing. (Yes, I've heard of people doing some things in gimp but do not tell me that embedding of gimp into serious design\prepress studio workflow would be a good idea.)
I'd suggest you to search for "composing layers in Paint Shop Pro" on youtube.
What are you trying to do? Using Screen or other modes is typically done when you are adjusting the lighting or look of layers, usually with a second copy of the same layer or with a layer you paint to adjust the underlayer (for example, fill a new layer with black and then set it to Screen; you can now paint on it with white and shades of grey to selectively lighten the base layer without changing it directly, making it easier to adjust the results - although these days you can do the same with an adjustment layer and a mask.)
I'd love to help you but I'm using the Paint Shop Pro 7 which I bought in 2001-ish which was way before the software was bought by Corel. :lol:
What can I say. When I buy something I don't upgrade until I absolutely have to.
...PSPX5 and later can load .abr files and brushes without having to convert them. PSPX6 also has 64 bit support now.
Corel seems to have a big sale like once a month or so.
Good tips Stezza. I don't think I've ever used the layer properties like that.
McKinnon-can you save your renders as PNGs instead of BMP? Then you would get the figure on transparent background and when you paste them as new layer in PSP the top layer will hide what is underneath it. (Apologies if you stated that you couldn't render out PNGs and I missed it.)
Wow!!! Between the spread of you generous artists, I've learned how to do this!!! Thank you especially to Arkathan for Ctrl+L, Stezza for showing it IS possible and Coon Ra for explaining that I should be using TIF and not BMP/JPEG (yes!! I'm off to learn about alpha channels and composing layers... didn't even know that was the terminology!!).
You guys are the absolute bomb!! The PaintShop forums didn't have any idea what I was really talking about and the Corel support team is silent. I have never in all my days been on a forum so filled with people willing to share their time and expertise. I want to be one of you!!
Uploaded images of the render in DAZ and the composed layers in PSP X6. I'm not worried about the background at this point. Just wanted to get something up for you guys to see. THANK YOU again!
I now see positioning is a little off in PSP but hey.... this DAZ render was just a simple exercise I was doing around a whole other topic in DAZ. It's obviously not tying to represent anything "real". The fact that I can control what's in front and behind in PSP might take a little playing around but I've got the core of it now.
...well considering that PSP is primarily sold as a tool for editing, enhancing, and retouching photos, it doesn't surprise me that many who use it don't think about 3D CG post production.
Which is a real shame as PSP has always been quite a robust graphics tool.
Corel have been more active in asking for user feed back in the last few years and things were starting to improve but they change their minds and focus so often it's a wonder they get anything done, and yep it seems they are transitioning again, so i'm wondering what they'll abandon this time lol
...better not be Painter. That is the one somewhat expensive application I will get when my financial situation improves.
@Kyoto Kid - no, I'm not using Painter. Using PaintShopPro X6 - $59 on Amazon last I checked and I hear it goes on sale sometimes.
...just concerned they will do something to ruin what I consider their best app.
Yeah I've seen the upgrade for X6 go for as low as 39$ every so often. Need to have a steady income first though.
My version of Painter is even older than my version of PSP. Painter 1.
I rarely do any 2D illustration work on my PC any more. I prefer Sketchbook Pro and my Toshiba Thrive android tablet for drawing now.
....I'm looking more to go the Kurt Lundqvist route of enhancing rendered scenes so Painter is definitely on the list.
Don't have a tablet (can't afford one) though Sketchbook Pro seems reasonably priced for the perpetual licence.
Artrage is another great natural painting software program, works on windows and mac. I think it pre-dates Sketchbook pro for the artistic interface, although Sketchbook pro used to have more technical drawing features.
Are we allowed to link to software, or does it fall fowl of the new daz TOS section about non-daz artist content advertising?
Linking in response to a query is fine.