Character "creation" using existing models

jrm21

I am working on some animation ideas in Carrara and was wondering about character "creation."

I would like to customize various stock human characters (i.e. Michael, Victoria, Genesis). Different body builds, different faces so they look like individuals. Ideally, I would like to craft the facial features to look close to specific ideas I have.

What is the best, or at least a recommended, way to handle this in Carrara?

Do you just mess with the "morph" settings to get what you like? Or do you actually go in and modify the underlying structure of the model?

Do you make your changes in Carrara or do it in Studio and then bring the finished model into Carrara?

Once you have a model set up how you like, do you then save it to your objects library and always load it in from there? ( I seem to recall sometimes getting corrupted files when using that method in the past).

Also, how do you handle "upgrading" to a new base figure? For example, if you have a figure looking the way you want in a generation 4 model, how do you get that same look in a genesis figure? (I think I read a post where someone did this.) Is it just a matter of loading all the same morphs and manually entering data?

Thanks in advance for any direction.

WendyLuvsCatz

morph dials is the usual way
You can go into vertex room and soft select move polys export the resulting head obj as a Daz studio or Poser morph target but in order to load it as a morph in carrara you need to use an existing morph, I myself find this rather iffy and have little success
I find it much easier to load my Carrara created morph object in Poser myself for pre genesis figures or Daz studio for Genesis
you can also use morph loader in DS on V4 & M4 but saving the cr2 a bit more complex than Poser
then open the saved Poser cr2 or Daz studio .support asset duf file in carrara
you can use Dimension 3D genX in Daz studio to transfer a V4 or M4 morph you created to genesis, I do this with faceshop 6EZ as I am too tight to buy the latest faceshop
also I use facegen exporter for Genesis
I mix the two often

jrm21

I really don't like to model (I am horrible at it for anything but the most simple things). I have Carrara, Daz Studio and I believe Poser 7.

Keeping things simple, let's just look at Genesis figures.

wendy♥catz said:

morph dials is the usual way
You can go into vertex room and soft select move ploys export the resulting head obj as a Daz studio or Poser morph target but in order to load it as a morph in carrara you need to use an existing morph, I myself find this rather iffy and have little success

Bear with me as this is mostly greek to me. I understand a "morph" is something controlled by a "parameter" slider in Carrara. So "eyes blink," for example would be a "morph." (I know what an obj and a poly is). What is a "soft" select? How exactly do you save as a "morph target?" (What exactly is a morph target?). How do you load it as a morph in carrara using an existing morph?

I find it much easier to load my Carrara created morph object in Poser myself for pre genesis figures or Daz studio for Genesis
you can also use morph loader in DS on V4 & M4 but saving the cr2 a bit more complex than Poser
then open the saved Poser cry or Daz studio .support asset duf file in carrara

Again, for simplicity sake let's keep it to Genesis for now... Your "morph object" is the "morph target" you created above in Carrara? How do you "attach" that altered item to the existing item in DS?

For a simple example, let's say I want to create a genesis character with big ears and a dent in his forehead. From what I am reading, I would:

1-open a genesis character in Carrara
2-dial a few parameter sliders to shape the ears. I then
3-Go to vertex room and move ploys to make a forehead dent.
4-export the resulting head obj as a Daz studio morph target
5-load morph target from step 4 into Daz Studio
6-Save Daz studio file from step 5
7-Open file from step 6 in carrara

How do I achieve steps 4 and 5?
For step 3/4, do I need to separate the head from the rest of the figure? (It loads in as a complete figure in the vertex room).

With the above, I am guessing the dent (alteration of the polys) would be a permanent change to the model. What about the ear changes? When back into carrara are the ear parameter sliders now "zeroed" or do the reflect the changes made in step 2?

When done with this whole process, do you save the final figure to your Carrara objects browser or is there a way to have it with the other characters in the content tab?

you can use Dimension 3D genX in Daz studio to transfer a V4 or M4 morph you created to genesis, I do this with faceshop 6EZ as I am too tight to buy the latest faceshop
also I use facegen exporter for Genesis
I mix the two often

I don't have any of those third party programs. Is faceshop or facegen exporter the "right" tool for this type of job? Or does it simply make things a little easier.

I seem to recall that Poser 7 has a "face room." Would that also be viable tool for this work? If so, how would you export to create a new "base"character?

Thanks for your response and sorry for all the questions. This aspect has always alluded me.

WendyLuvsCatz

ok
for vertex morphs
I export ALL of genesis from Daz studio at base resolution no subdivision as an obj
you can dial in your morphs if you wish
import into carrara as one object Daz studio settings
play in vertex room
export as Daz studio morph target setting in obj export
load on genesis using morph loader Daz studio settings
under edit figure adjust rigging to shape
save as figure asset

Facegen, faceshop both use photos to create morphs and not so good textures
Poser faceroom only works on Poser figures, is based on facegen technology
i use them but tweak as well with morphs and moving vertices

evilproducer

In addition to morphs for eye blinks and the like there are also shape morphs for all body parts including the face. If you had Carrara 7 Pro or Carrara 8 Pro, you should have have had V4 and M4 included, plus Morphs++. The Morphs++ are what you need for the additional shape morphs.

To apply them, you would select your figure in the Instances tray, then in the content browser, under the runtime where your V4 and M4 are stored, you'd expand the morphs category and find V4 and M4. Look for morphs++. With your figure selected, double click the injj morphs++ icon. Carrara will be busy for a minute while it injects the morphs.

Select a body part such as Head, and look at the General tab to see the list of morphs.

SileneUK

wendy♥catz said:

ok
for vertex morphs
I export ALL of genesis from Daz studio at base resolution no subdivision as an obj
you can dial in your morphs if you wish
import into carrara as one object Daz studio settings
play in vertex room
export as Daz studio morph target setting in obj export
load on genesis using morph loader Daz studio settings
under edit figure adjust rigging to shape
save as figure asset

Facegen, faceshop both use photos to create morphs and not so good textures
Poser faceroom only works on Poser figures, is based on facegen technology
i use them but tweak as well with morphs and moving vertices

SO if you bring your Genesis in from DS, morphed or not, mess with mesh in modelling room without having to be in animation mode, you can then export as DS object with morph target settings?

Or do you just export as DS object then load morphs back in DS?

Of can you just pose and morph some and render in Carrara even after messing with mesh n model room????

Or are you not applying morphs just tweaking and working with the mesh in the Carrara modelling room?

Sorry I am not getting this....I've been trying to get by with weight painting in animation mode...not always working as well as I'd like.

You always have good tips and techniques, is there another thread on this you can point me to if you have already gone over it before?

Thanks so much.... I am interested in some over-morphing of brows, cranium shapes, etc.

:) SileneUK

WendyLuvsCatz

ha ha just because I know how to do it does not mean I am actually good at it!
I meant creating a full body morph for genesis like the zbrushers do only using carrara, exporting the base mesh tweaking it and loading it back as a morph target
it works but I honestly cannot say I have created anything of beauty
if you dial in morphs before exporting, those too can be added, none of that is allowed for redistribution though but since I do it for animation in my videos not an issue.
I have Wendy look alike full body morph made this way and some other questionable characters.
my carrara tweaking is mostly on my neck which recedes and I have not found a Daz morph quite like it
hardly an attractive feature!
I do not do terribly radical stuff, just slight tweaking as I find it can mess up the movement due to all the joint contolled morphs and stuff genesis has beyond my knowledge, as I said, I dial up what I can in Daz studio, export an obj of that and go into the vertex room for what I cannot.
never done a tute as such because trial and error and I get many fails.

SileneUK

wendy♥catz said:

ha ha just because I know how to do it does not mean I am actually good at it!
I meant creating a full body morph for genesis like the zbrushers do only using carrara, exporting the base mesh tweaking it and loading it back as a morph target
it works but I honestly cannot say I have created anything of beauty
if you dial in morphs before exporting, those too can be added, none of that is allowed for redistribution though but since I do it for animation in my videos not an issue.
I have Wendy look alike full body morph made this way and some other questionable characters.
my carrara tweaking is mostly on my neck which recedes and I have not found a Daz morph quite like it
hardly an attractive feature!
I do not do terribly radical stuff, just slight tweaking as I find it can mess up the movement due to all the joint contolled morphs and stuff genesis has beyond my knowledge, as I said, I dial up what I can in Daz studio, export an obj of that and go into the vertex room for what I cannot.
never done a tute as such because trial and error and I get many fails.

When I can get some time...I am going to give it a go. I keep thinking about Z-Brush...but will have to wait till I am re-enrolled in another course before I can get the student discount. I had to take a break this term. Besides if I can't get things half-way decent in Carrara, I have no business messing with Z-Brush!

Will let you know how it goes.

Cheers, :) Silene

jrm21

First off, thank you for all your help.

wendy♥catz said:

ok
for vertex morphs
I export ALL of genesis from Daz studio at base resolution no subdivision as an obj
you can dial in your morphs if you wish
import into carrara as one object Daz studio settings
play in vertex room
export as Daz studio morph target setting in obj export

No problem so far.

load on genesis using morph loader Daz studio settings

Here I am stumped. The only commands I can see in Studio to bring in an item are "open" and "Import." Neither give me any option to apply to the existing figure or show any kind of "morph loader" selection. The only selectable option is for scaling (which, BTW makes the character extremely large when opening in Carrara after using the carrara export setting).

jrm21

evilproducer said:

In addition to morphs for eye blinks and the like there are also shape morphs for all body parts including the face. If you had Carrara 7 Pro or Carrara 8 Pro, you should have have had V4 and M4 included, plus Morphs++. The Morphs++ are what you need for the additional shape morphs.

To apply them, you would select your figure in the Instances tray, then in the content browser, under the runtime where your V4 and M4 are stored, you'd expand the morphs category and find V4 and M4. Look for morphs++. With your figure selected, double click the injj morphs++ icon. Carrara will be busy for a minute while it injects the morphs.

Select a body part such as Head, and look at the General tab to see the list of morphs.

I feel so lost. :)

Okay - I have C8.5 pro. I know how to access the shape morphs for V/M4 and Genesis. I guess that was my original question... how to (or can/should you) make those settings permanent? In other words, create your own "Harold" figure to use as a starting point for other changes, or just to be able to load all your favorite morph setting values quickly.

I am guessing the round trip to Studio that Wendy was outlining is only necessary if you are messing with the actual model in the vertex editor? While it would be nice to do that, I can live without it for what I have in mind.

WendyLuvsCatz

morph loader is a separate icon, depending which UI you have for DS4 you may not see it, self serve you will

evilproducer

jrm21 said:

evilproducer said:

In addition to morphs for eye blinks and the like there are also shape morphs for all body parts including the face. If you had Carrara 7 Pro or Carrara 8 Pro, you should have have had V4 and M4 included, plus Morphs++. The Morphs++ are what you need for the additional shape morphs.

To apply them, you would select your figure in the Instances tray, then in the content browser, under the runtime where your V4 and M4 are stored, you'd expand the morphs category and find V4 and M4. Look for morphs++. With your figure selected, double click the injj morphs++ icon. Carrara will be busy for a minute while it injects the morphs.

Select a body part such as Head, and look at the General tab to see the list of morphs.

I feel so lost. :)

Okay - I have C8.5 pro. I know how to access the shape morphs for V/M4 and Genesis. I guess that was my original question... how to (or can/should you) make those settings permanent? In other words, create your own "Harold" figure to use as a starting point for other changes, or just to be able to load all your favorite morph setting values quickly.

I am guessing the round trip to Studio that Wendy was outlining is only necessary if you are messing with the actual model in the vertex editor? While it would be nice to do that, I can live without it for what I have in mind.

Yeah. Wendy and laurenwbr are talking about editing the underlying mesh. I'm just talking about adjusting the morph parameters. I have not had an issue with corruption saving to the objects Browser, but if you have and are wary about doing so, you don't need to. You could save your character by just saving the scene that it is in using the Save command under the file menu. Then you could "import" that scene into another scene. This is essentially what is happening when you save to the browser. I would delete your light first as the whole scene will be opened within your existing scene.

SileneUK

jrm21 said:

evilproducer said:

In addition to morphs for eye blinks and the like there are also shape morphs for all body parts including the face. If you had Carrara 7 Pro or Carrara 8 Pro, you should have have had V4 and M4 included, plus Morphs++. The Morphs++ are what you need for the additional shape morphs.

To apply them, you would select your figure in the Instances tray, then in the content browser, under the runtime where your V4 and M4 are stored, you'd expand the morphs category and find V4 and M4. Look for morphs++. With your figure selected, double click the injj morphs++ icon. Carrara will be busy for a minute while it injects the morphs.

Select a body part such as Head, and look at the General tab to see the list of morphs.

I feel so lost. :)

Okay - I have C8.5 pro. I know how to access the shape morphs for V/M4 and Genesis. I guess that was my original question... how to (or can/should you) make those settings permanent? In other words, create your own "Harold" figure to use as a starting point for other changes, or just to be able to load all your favorite morph setting values quickly.

I am guessing the round trip to Studio that Wendy was outlining is only necessary if you are messing with the actual model in the vertex editor? While it would be nice to do that, I can live without it for what I have in mind.

Oh, ahhaaa...maybe it's not so complicated as we are making it. Collect al the morphs you can buy or get for your creations. They all have good and bad points, but I make most work well together, even if some conflict.

If you bring in a Vicky and load up all the extra morphs ++.and then some (and for Genesis). then style her/him using whatever, there is a simpler method of saving them to have a stable of characters you style.

You can just save her/him by selecting all of the characters bits in the properties bar on the right and DRAG that finished into a folder in your browser under the Objects category. You can use New Models eg. As you drag, it will prompt you to name him/her...eg Sassy Vicky or Funny Vicky or if a male, Horrid Harold , etc. Is that what you meant? You just wanted to save Genesis models you tarted up within Carrara and retrieve them from your Browser/Objects section as you want to use them?

If that's it, there's others here who can advise on saving these within your presets/objects but on an external drive as after a while, an 80mb or more model can start slowing things down. Add Carrara or other hair, clothes, etc and the files get huge. I have a dozen of these kinds of people and had to move their location, but they STILL show in my browser where they are handy to drag into a scene. I recommend you keep them in the T pose and not posed. If you can leave them "naked", it might save file space.

Sorry if I got that wrong... but gave it a shot.

ETA I make lists of morph slider control numbers for each type of character so if I want a basic place to start and I lose my base model, I can re-create it. I once saw a list in a DS discussion where the creator applied 150+ changes!!!

:) SileneUK

jrm21

laurenwbr said:

You just wanted to save Genesis models you tarted up within Carrara and retrieve them from your Browser/Objects section as you want to use them?

I guess ultimately, that's what I want to do. At least that's all I really have the time to devote to. Didn't realize that going to the "next level" with mesh editing and morph targets would be so complex. I was hoping there was a relatively straight-forward way of creating a new "base" character from an existing one. (Set all your morph sliders, do a few steps and then have a new character where all the morph sliders start at "0" or just be able to turn the new "Harold" slider to "1" to apply the previous changes to a new figure.).

Content management, secondary drives, etc. I am fine with. No problem to import or set up folders in Carrara's browser. I already have all my content/Daz content arranged on other discs.

As far a writing down the parameter settings - i guess that is the safest way to do things. Again, I was hoping I overlooked a simpler way of doing things.

Regarding corruption of characters placed in Carrara's object tab - I had that happen a few times in C7 (maybe early versions of C8?) with M4 characters. I recall reading some forum posts that I was not alone. I am on a Mac and it may have been a Mac problem. Hopefully that problem has been fixed.

Thanks everyone for the information. I will look into the morph target thing when I have some time. Meanwhile, I will stick with the standard object browser (or simply scene) method of storing.

evilproducer

I'm on a Mac running C7.2 Pro and haven't had the issue myself. I did have the dreaded corrupt file once or twice from saving my scenes compressed.

jrm21

evilproducer said:

I'm on a Mac running C7.2 Pro and haven't had the issue myself. I did have the dreaded corrupt file once or twice from saving my scenes compressed.

I used to have numerous problems with Carrara 7 on my Mac. I know many claimed that C7 was a very stable release, but it never was for me. More accurately, it wasn't bad on its own, but was horrendous when used with complex DAZ content such as people figures. There must have been something about my machine that Carrara didn't like.

C8 was better for me. It was certainly more predictable. C8.5 is running fairly well and has been, so far, an improvement over 8.