Camera Magic: ToonyCam Pro - problem with HAIRS

riccopt

I am having quite a hard time with it as some of the hairs that I have on my libraty hava a SXULL CAP... and when I render it the skull cap that is transparent actually gets outlined

is that a way to fix it?

one is rendered using the normal cam and the other is rendered using the toony cam pro...

any suggestions on how to fix it?

bad4u

riccopt

bad4u said:

If I remember correct from other thread, you would set haircap to same outline-ID as face/head, so there is no 'gap' that gets an outline.

Edit: Just found it, you need to set skullcap to same outline-ID like skin, so that outline processor doesn't recognize it separately.

and how do I do it?

a tutorial on how to use it would be awesome...

bad4u

Crescent

Which camera Outline Style settings did you use? I found that if I use the "Depth On" setting, I get the outline from the scalp. Even setting the Outline ID Color of the scalp to the same as the skin, the outline still showed.

I found a different workaround, though. If I set the Outline Depth for the scalp to Off in the Surface Palette, the line goes away.

riccopt

Crescent said:

Which camera Outline Style settings did you use? I found that if I use the "Depth On" setting, I get the outline from the scalp. Even setting the Outline ID Color of the scalp to the same as the skin, the outline still showed.

I found a different workaround, though. If I set the Outline Depth for the scalp to Off in the Surface Palette, the line goes away.

there is no such "Outline ID Color" on the skull cap... on the other surfaces of the hair I found it, but not on the skull cap...

Crescent

I found out that the Depth ID shows up randomly. It depends on when you load the figure versus the camera and what kind of mood DS is in at that particular moment. I'm working on a script to have it show all the time so it can be set.

Crescent

I did a lot more experimentation on the outline issue. Here's what I've found:

If you use the Normal On version for the render style, you can set the Outline ID Color of the scalp to the same as the figure's skin and the outline should go away. (From what I understand, applying "!Render Outlines On" uses the Normals On style. You can also set it in the Outline Style folder.) It could be that my version of DS is flaky, but by default I only see the Outline ID Color on figures and items that I loaded into my scene *before* loading and setting up the ToonyCam Pro. (The same for the Outline Depth setting, which I'm not sure is supposed to be visible/accessible at all.)

If you do not see the Outline ID Color, you can trigger it using one of the presets in the OutlineID FIgure Utilities folder. Personally, I'd suggest using the "All OutlineIDs by MAT Zone" preset. This will set the scene so every material zone for every item in the scene is outlined. I'd then suggest highighting all the skin materials per figure in the Surfaces palette and setting the same Outline ID Color for them. (It doesn't matter what color you set so long as the color is different that everything else around it.) Set the skull caps that color as well. That should resolve this issue.

I've been using the Depth On style because I'm having a weird issue with the camera and some custom shaders when using the default Normal On style. Setting the Outline ID Color isn't fixing my problem with skull cap outlines so I've been playing with workarounds today.

Hope this helps.

zigraphix

Good advice, Crescent! Thanks! I only just saw this thread.

The skullcap or scalp part of hair won't always show on the Normal or Depth modes quite as much as it does here. When it does show, changing OutlineID won't fix it, as that only adjusts the OutlineID style of rendering outlines, and doesn't change the way the Normal or Depth outlines get rendered at all.

When I am rendering images with a lot of transparency, like hair, I use the OutlineID method. And yes, if you add new content to a scene, you'll need to re-run the script to set OutlineID parameters. I automatically run it for you when you turn outline rendering on, but that only creates the new parameter in content that is in your scene at that point. I can't affect how DS handles content after that. If you have been manually tweaking OutlineID values in your scene, you might want to just select the new items and use the "Selected by MAT Zone" script, instead of resetting everything in the scene.

I'll continue to monitor this thread for questions, as well as the main ToonyCam Pro thread.

riccopt

I have not had time to play with anything today, hopefully tomorrow I will be able to do some more tests, and hopefully learn more on how to use this AMAZING TOONY CAM!!!

DaremoK3

zigraphix,

I have been testing it with Ri-Curves via Look At My Hair (Player 1.06 so far), and Garibaldi Express 1.0.

I have noted what Cresent has said about loading content before vs. after activating ToonyCamPro, and wanted to point out to you a small difference between the two hair products.

LAMH will work regardless if loaded before or after, and if OutlineIDColor/DepthID show up or not. However, Garibaldi will not work if loaded before TCP, or if OutlineIDColor/DepthID are present in the shader.

I don't know why this is, or what possible parameter in the shader to adjust to get it to work. I just know it works without them loaded into the shader.

I still need to test LAMH 1.5, and 1.5 player.

Not sure you can do anything with the info. Just wanted to bring it to your attention.

zigraphix

DaremoK3 said:

However, Garibaldi will not work if loaded before TCP, or if OutlineIDColor/DepthID are present in the shader.

I don't know why this is, or what possible parameter in the shader to adjust to get it to work. I just know it works without them loaded into the shader.

I still need to test LAMH 1.5, and 1.5 player.

Not sure you can do anything with the info. Just wanted to bring it to your attention.

Weird. I don't have Garibaldi. I'd already bought LAMH when it came out, and I couldn't justify buying another similar product at the time. I'll connect with the creator and see if we can sort out what the problem is.

almahiedra

DaremoK3 said:

zigraphix,

I have been testing it with Ri-Curves via Look At My Hair (Player 1.06 so far), and Garibaldi Express 1.0.

I have noted what Cresent has said about loading content before vs. after activating ToonyCamPro, and wanted to point out to you a small difference between the two hair products.

LAMH will work regardless if loaded before or after, and if OutlineIDColor/DepthID show up or not. However, Garibaldi will not work if loaded before TCP, or if OutlineIDColor/DepthID are present in the shader.

I don't know why this is, or what possible parameter in the shader to adjust to get it to work. I just know it works without them loaded into the shader.

I still need to test LAMH 1.5, and 1.5 player.

Not sure you can do anything with the info. Just wanted to bring it to your attention.

It works for LAMH 1.5, at least the times that LAMH wants to work for me.

almahiedra

Garibaldi with TCam doesn't work for me in any condition. I can't export and reimport it as obj.

For another shaders LAMH works better than garibaldi. Garibaldi doesn't get the total "effect". But I think Garibaldi is better than LAMH in photorealism.

Garibaldi works with sketchcam. Perhaps the problem to garibaldi is render engine?

zigraphix

The free SketchCam doesn't alter surfaces. Neither does the free ToonCam-- does that work with Garibaldi?

almahiedra

Test with direct garibaldi hair

TCam Basics works

Definitive, problem is render engine.

First TCam Basic
Second TCam Pro scripted 3delight enabled => garibaldi disappears
Third Tcam Pro scripted 3delight disabled

Until now I can't obtain a garibaldi object for test. When I import the exported hair I obtain nothing. Surely I am doing something wrong but I don't know what.

DaremoK3

gilikshe:

The render engine is not the issue. Garibaldi is fine with either the default 3Delight, or the scripted 3Delight.

The problem is the "outlines" script in the ToonyCamPro product. That is why you see no issues with the two free products. They do not include the outlines script.

More specifically, Garibaldi's "shader" does not like the outlines script. If you load a Garibaldi hair last, after you have your whole scene set up and ready for render with ToonyCamPro all set up already, you should get a Garibaldi hair shader devoid of the TCP Outlines script (OutlinesColorID/DepthID).

It works for me on DS Pro 4.6.1.39 x64 at least. Maybe it's a 3Delight version issue from different DS versions. What DS version are you running?

almahiedra

DaremoK3 said:

gilikshe:

The render engine is not the issue. Garibaldi is fine with either the default 3Delight, or the scripted 3Delight.

The problem is the "outlines" script in the ToonyCamPro product. That is why you see no issues with the two free products. They do not include the outlines script.

More specifically, Garibaldi's "shader" does not like the outlines script. If you load a Garibaldi hair last, after you have your whole scene set up and ready for render with ToonyCamPro all set up already, you should get a Garibaldi hair shader devoid of the TCP Outlines script (OutlinesColorID/DepthID).

It works for me on DS Pro 4.6.1.39 x64 at least. Maybe it's a 3Delight version issue from different DS versions. What DS version are you running?

Yes, you are OK,

Maybe I didn't express it well :( . I had in mind certain ri stuff in 3dlight asociated to outlines for which probably garibaldi doesn't works not all 3Delight, and another shaders also look less "well" compared to LAMH look.

I test "before and after" yesterday in DS Pro 4.6.2.117 x64. These didn't work, "after" garibaldir hair disappear. But today I exit DS, reopen DS and "after" garibaldi hair works :s ... and yes, I am sure, yesterday I put new made hair after set TCam.

Just now import object garibaldi hair works too.

zigraphix

DaremoK3 said:

gilikshe:

The render engine is not the issue. Garibaldi is fine with either the default 3Delight, or the scripted 3Delight.

The problem is the "outlines" script in the ToonyCamPro product. That is why you see no issues with the two free products. They do not include the outlines script.

More specifically, Garibaldi's "shader" does not like the outlines script. If you load a Garibaldi hair last, after you have your whole scene set up and ready for render with ToonyCamPro all set up already, you should get a Garibaldi hair shader devoid of the TCP Outlines script (OutlinesColorID/DepthID).

It works for me on DS Pro 4.6.1.39 x64 at least. Maybe it's a 3Delight version issue from different DS versions. What DS version are you running?

Does Garibaldi allow the use of other shaders on hair? I know LAMH does. If not, I may not be able to get outlining working on Garibaldi with all features. It might be possible to make a limited version that doesn't use the "Outline Depth" check to selectively outline items in the scene, but forces an outline for all content. The "OutlineID" method wouldn't work at all.

mjc1016

zigraphix said:

DaremoK3 said:

gilikshe:

The render engine is not the issue. Garibaldi is fine with either the default 3Delight, or the scripted 3Delight.

The problem is the "outlines" script in the ToonyCamPro product. That is why you see no issues with the two free products. They do not include the outlines script.

More specifically, Garibaldi's "shader" does not like the outlines script. If you load a Garibaldi hair last, after you have your whole scene set up and ready for render with ToonyCamPro all set up already, you should get a Garibaldi hair shader devoid of the TCP Outlines script (OutlinesColorID/DepthID).

It works for me on DS Pro 4.6.1.39 x64 at least. Maybe it's a 3Delight version issue from different DS versions. What DS version are you running?

Does Garibaldi allow the use of other shaders on hair? I know LAMH does. If not, I may not be able to get outlining working on Garibaldi with all features. It might be possible to make a limited version that doesn't use the "Outline Depth" check to selectively outline items in the scene, but forces an outline for all content. The "OutlineID" method wouldn't work at all.

I believe it does, but I haven't done anything with it recently, so I'm not entirely sure...Gone would probably know, as he's done the most with Garibaldi.

DaremoK3

Yeah, zigraphix, I'm with mjc on this.

My first thought to that question went to Gone. He is the quintessential guru for Garibaldi here, and he would surely know.

I don't work with it enough to try anything but the defaults so far. I know it can use a texture for the underlying shader working in conjunction with the default hair shader though.

I should have been more clear with my description of the issue though. Garibaldi hair does work with ToonyCamPro. The shader just does not like the outlines script.

If enabled within the script, all renders of Garibaldi hair are invisable. However, if you use the load hair last workaround, Garibaldi hair respects TCP's master render instructions.

I can get five different hair renders depending on what settings are set for the entire render; Hair - no outlines, hair - OutlineID lines, hair - Normal lines, hair - Depth lines, and hair - all lines combined.

So, It definitely works. TCP and Garibaldi are just having an issue communicating.

mjc1016

DaremoK3 said:

So, It definitely works. TCP and Garibaldi are just having an issue communicating.

From what I can tell and what was discussed back in the beta days, the Garibaldi shader is a custom made affair...so if Gone doesn't know enough, then FutureBiscuit is going to be the only recourse for info on it. But if it can take another hair shader, then it may be workable another way...

Ghosty12

Finding a lot of the hair items I have don't produce an Outline ID in the surfaces tab not sure why.. But as stated in another post I think I turned all of them off and then only turned the Normal on and happily it did not render the skull cap line.. Though not have to figure out how to stop the camera from showing the skullcap on certain hair models..

almahiedra

Garibaldi hair created after TCam loaded

1.- First render pass
2.- Second render pass

Obj from same Garibaldi hair

3.- First render pass
4.- Second render pass

edit: Only IDOutline in all

scorpio

I don't know if this is any help but I use Destiny Gardens Toon hair Shaders, which use Ubersurface, on Garibaldi hair and don't have any problems.

Gone

Short answer is yes - Garibaldi will take any shader you wish to apply to it.

I've used paint, fabric, and metal shaders based on DAZ default, Ubersurface, Humansurface, AoA Subsurface, and even custom built shaders without issue.

Since they are not hair shaders, they don't make the hair look like hair - but the strands are generated normally and the shader is applied.

How fast they render is variable. Metal shaders generally render quickly. Goop shaders....... not so much.

mjc1016

So basically, it's looking like an incompatibility problem between the 'standard' Garibaldi shader and the toon cam. Applying a 'default' shader to the hair should 'fix' it...basically all that's needed would be a diffuse color in the default shader.

SimonJM

mjc1016 said:

So basically, it's looking like an incompatibility problem between the 'standard' Garibaldi shader and the toon cam. Applying a 'default' shader to the hair should 'fix' it...basically all that's needed would be a diffuse color in the default shader.

A good and useful point - thank you. Now all I have to do is remember! :)

zigraphix

mjc1016 said:

So basically, it's looking like an incompatibility problem between the 'standard' Garibaldi shader and the toon cam. Applying a 'default' shader to the hair should 'fix' it...basically all that's needed would be a diffuse color in the default shader.

I'll go through the script that adds the OutlineID and Outline Depth parameters to make sure they don't give them funny names that would conflict with another script. I'll need to see about getting a copy of Garibaldi to test. It seems like enough people may want to be able to use them together that I should test for that. (I would think it would be even more true with SketchyCam Pro.)

almahiedra

zigraphix said:

mjc1016 said:

So basically, it's looking like an incompatibility problem between the 'standard' Garibaldi shader and the toon cam. Applying a 'default' shader to the hair should 'fix' it...basically all that's needed would be a diffuse color in the default shader.

I'll go through the script that adds the OutlineID and Outline Depth parameters to make sure they don't give them funny names that would conflict with another script. I'll need to see about getting a copy of Garibaldi to test. It seems like enough people may want to be able to use them together that I should test for that. (I would think it would be even more true with SketchyCam Pro.)

Yes! even I don't like pwtoon or some metallic shaders in garibaldi vs LAMH results, for me Garibaldi hair with sketchycam looks totally WoW

zigraphix

mjc1016 said:

So basically, it's looking like an incompatibility problem between the 'standard' Garibaldi shader and the toon cam. Applying a 'default' shader to the hair should 'fix' it...basically all that's needed would be a diffuse color in the default shader.

Actually, have you confirmed that this works? It's a good workaround, if so....