Is there a trick to fluid animations?
Testing6790
Posts: 1,091
I'm still very much an animation newbie, but all of my animations are always very clunky and jerky. The fluid animations I HAVE made are very short because the amount of work it takes is astounding. I know there are utilities like keymate and graphmate, but I'm hesitant to purchase them if it doesn't drastically improve the speed and quality of my animations.
There are also aniblocks, but to use them effectively requires a lot of purchases as well as pricey utilties like animate2
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Speed in animation has to do with how close or far your poses\keyframes are...timing and spacing! Keymate and graphmate won't do you any good if you don't understand about the timing of things. There are lots of videos on Youtube that can help you with this. They don't necessarily teach you about Daz Studio, but they teach about timing and the spacing of keys and poses. Once you get the idea, keymate and graphmate can help. Keymate is great for dealing specifically with keys...creating, deleting, moving, copying and pasting. Graphmate will help you with speed and smoothness using curves but you need to understand that too. am finally starting to understand the curves.
In a program like DAZ (and its related products), you're likely not going to have any smooth -major- animations without the use of motion capture files. The tools just aren't there, even in Carrara (which is way better for animation than is DAZ).
You can do some small things (as I'm sure you've found out). A head or arm move, etc. The only "trick" I could tell you is to never stop. Never allow an arm or the the head or any of it to come to a full stop. Everything should be in constant subtle motion at all times. It's the *stopping* that causes a lot of the jerkiness.
So yeah, patience and time is the name of the game with animation.
That of course is nonsense.
The default setting of the DS Timeline is TCB interpolation, this ensures everything is smoothed out.
That of course gives a problem with, let's say, animating an object around its own axis, like a caroussel; then the interpolation should be set to Lineair. That is where items like GraphMate come in handy.
Just don't expect to make animations like the ones from Pixar or Blur studios, but that has more to do with the way DAZ/Poser characters are rigged..
if you want professional looking animations, buy Maya or go for Blender (free)
You just said something was nonsense and offered no legitimate reason why it's nonsense. Look at any 3D animated feature ever made. No focal character in a shot will ever come fully to rest at any major joint point.
It's a pretty rudimentary aspect of 3D animation. I don't know what information you're basing your perspective on. Go and watch some animated films -- they'll back up what I said about constant moving at the joints. It's one of the components that helps to dispel jerkiness in professional animations.
Yes, let's show a little respect for the opinions of others. How about, "Here's how I see it ..." BC Rice's comment did not sound unreasonable to me.
As an Wanna be Animator myself and a Forum Admin I will simply point out at this time please refrain from any comment that can be perceived as a personal attack on another user. All opinions are allowed by all users, it is up to the other users to decide if the information presented is of use to them. Please keep this in mind when posting in the future.
This has been a Semi Heads up. I will be watching the thread as will other Admins.
but talking about animation, there are some tools that can give a professional look ...
http://www.ikinema.com/webanimate/#.Ux4aPoWHOw0
http://www.mixamo.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7S1QijFbO4
Poser is quite capable of creating professional looking animation once you get used to it.. like with any other tool, you have to learn it.. Here is one great example RWBY
http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?sid=rwby&v=more
And the Red vs Blue
http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?sid=rvb&v=more
If I remember correctly RWBY is indeed a Poser developed animation, but Red vs Blue is a Machinima done with Halo Game modding tools.
Hi FirstBastion
According to Smith Micro's own press releases:
"Smith Micro Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: SMSI) Productivity and Graphics Group announced today that it is presenting a behind-the-scenes panel with acclaimed Red vs. Blue animator, Monty Oum, at 1:00 p.m. Saturday, July 7th, at Rooster Teeth Expo (RTX) 2012. Oum uses Smith Micro’s Poser Pro® software for most of the rendering and 3D character animation for the wildly popular Machinima series"
found here:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS110917+06-Jul-2012+BW20120706?irpc=932
“When I’m working on Red vs. Blue, Poser is like an extension of my body,” said Monty Oum, director of animation at Rooster Teeth Productions and senior animator for Red vs. Blue. “I have no time for inefficiency or unnecessary steps, and I need a workflow that I can move around easily. Poser is user friendly enough that kids could use it to animate, but at the same time it’s powerful and flexible enough that nearly all of our rendering and character animation for the series happens using Poser.”
Paradigm... At the end of the day, just do the best you can with what you've got. You'll gain a lot of experience which will help you develop you're own style.
Some animations that have done really well, are no better than Daz.
I made this a while ago using Daz. I tried to keep momentum throughout by cutting each scene at the right time. See what you think to the overall movement. (it's by no means the best, but it certainly isn't the worst.)
A Dancing Zombie ends up on the XFactor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB7OZUNshok&list=UU4rhXMCT8qil1QlSGKOlwag
Very good, nice flow/transitions. And convincing use of HDRI backgrounds (I think). I was enjoying it ... until I saw Simon ...
"TV Guide named him #10 in their 2013 list of The 60 Nastiest Villains of All Time."
OK, I realize a good villain is essential, but ... :shut:
I feel you pain..lol
Keyframes animation with Daz is very time consuming. But you can achieve decent results if you got the patients. It helps to know how to do film editing because you can cut out the animation that is jumping or you may not be happy with with out having to re-render the whole scene again by knowing how to do animation scene over runs.
It also takes patient to render Daz animations Rendering with 3dlight in Daz studio just take's a long time, though it's much better than it was. just remember when you start adding Fog or other types of atmosphere effects i will surely up your render times. I always go find something do or plan my animation renders during the night when i am sleeping and most times they will be finished when I get up in the morning..
I look at the animation process with Daz like a jig-saw Puzzle you start putting the pieces key frame at a time, soon before you know it, you'll learn little short cuts and tips on how to speed your render times, and your skill will prove along with your key-framing. , Ani-blocks are great for long run keyframes , But I found its best hand key-framing to start by making shorts scenes 1 or 2 or 3 seconds long 60 key-frames or less. and making them look longer by joining the scene in a film editor. which will teach you how to be a better animation director as well. :)
Good luck make sure to share what you get done :)
You can animate well using DS, but you will have learn the principles of animation. There are many resources out there to help one learn, but it does take time & practice to get it right. That's why most users just end up using motion capture or aniMate2. The DS animation tools aren't as robust as other programs like Poser, MotionBuilder, or even Carrara, but plugins such as keyMate will make your live easier. Smooth animation is a result of the animators skill as much as the program. It takes time and a lot of studying but like any thing else as you get the hang of it, there is no reason you could not make professional level animations with DS.
The problem is that most users do not take the time to learn animation principles, the timing of different types of motions, the use of lighting and camera, etc... that leads to high level animation. Even films and games use motion capture to speed up the process. If you do not have the time to put into learning animation, then aniMate2 would be the way to go. So learn a bit about the animation principles especially timing and spacing, then give it another try and I think you will be surprised at the result...
Happy animating..
Re: RvB. I believe that Red vs. Blue was originally (i.e. In the early aughts) machinema created with the game engine. I recall a presentation from them or about them at the 2005 Mackie awards in Brooklyn. I don't know what the Halo mod interface was like, but I did use the Quake3 engine to make a feature film around then and it used a multithreaded compiler, so that machinema of any complexity required programming ability. Very difficult compared to modern tools like DS.
Thank you Bryan for the information. I stand corrected and I didn't know about the Poserpro connection. It's always good to learn new things. I was basing my information on old data from the mid 2000's when I was modding games myself, and first watched the R vs B series halo machinima as described by Gj.
The mid-2000s were a very strange time. Machinima was being touted as an alternative to animation and there wasn't a lot of cross-over. Most of the machinima in those days was accomplished using Fraps screen capture of actual game play. However, there were some engines, like Quake 3, that could be programmed like a very crude animation system. I think that the original RvB, though, was screen capture, probably mixed down with a simple video editor.
I recall back around 2005-2006 getting an email from the original developer of iClone (I think) requesting machinimists to try the product. I believe he even sent me a free version to try out. I remember thinking that this is the way the world is going, and so it has.
hey no problem FirstBastion, I was surprised myself at first at that little tidbit of information.. for the longest time, Poser was always looked down upon by those who use the big software packages like Maya, Lightwave, etc. (some still do).. I started back in the days of Poser 5.. a lot has changed since then.
Gj, you are probably right.. in the beginning that was probably the case..
I also use an OptiTrack mocap system (like Rooster Teeth), since I don't have a team of people to help animate.. but even then, like many have mentioned earlier, you still need to know how to keyframe (since most mocap systems won't capture finger or facial data).. so you need to know the basics (otherwise, even when using mocap, your animations will look crappy)
My advice to many.. look at your speed and timing! take a minute to look how people move.. one of my biggest gripes is that most of the animations I see look like they are under water (sloooow), or like they always portray people walking on the moon....
cheers!
Floating characters....
That is mostly spacing.
Even spacing (a constant speed during the entire motion); creates weightlessness and under water feeling.
Things need time to speed up and reach full speed (slow out) and then again to slow down and come
to a halt. (slowing into a pose)
Then there is overlap - in a chain of joints, one will create the lead movement, the others will follow,
drag and overlap, move a bit beyond the final position due to weight and inertia, then come to a stop.
The principle does not only apply to hair and clothes, but also to swinging arms during a walk,
where the shoulders lead, then the upper arms follow with an offset, then the lower arms, then
the hands, then the fingers, dragging and overshooting.
Mocapped data can create very bad results - if the base mocap data originated from an actor that is
significantly lighter or heavier than the CG character that you want to animate, or shorter or taller, the
movement will feel wrong, and the movements will need to be tweaked. (I know a few animators working
at Weta, on Avatar, Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes and the Hobbit trilogy - animators may tweak
the mocap for a single scene for weeks at a row to get it right)
There is balance to consider - lose the balance in your poses and the credibility of your animation
is lost.
There are the motion arcs - all natural things move over curved paths, leave this for only
a single frame, and there will be a nasty bump in your movement.
All these things need to work together for creating fluid motions that convey the character's
weight
You can play with it.
Just animate a simple primitive sphere.
If you want to make it move like a bowling ball, you need time and effort to make the
movement start, and when it moves, it will not suddenly stop unless it hits a solid object.
Any pin it encounters on its way will be swept away, because of the ball's weight
and inertia.
A balloon, though, will immediately accelerate, soon come to a sudden stop as well,
needing no more than the air resistance for it to break.
The same primitive sphere can be made to behave as a bowling ball or a balloon,
merely by changing the timing and the spacing in the animation - that is how important
these principles are.
Wrecking balls, bowling balls, tennis balls, balloons, marbles etc will all move with a different
spacing. Behave differently when they hit other objects.
Mastering these principles in key frame animation takes a lot of practice, and to be quite frank,
a better graph editor than the ones DAZ Studio or Poser have to offer (I did some professional
animation for TV and the cinema in Maya, I know the difference)
And you need patience and time - a Pixar animator may not produce more than three seconds
of animation a week, here in Europe we sometimes need to output ten seconds or more and
find it a lot of work - even with other specialists creating the sets, shaders, lighting etc for us.
(I usually have to smile every time I see people here wanting to create five minute shorts
in one or two days and then complaining about how much work that is, and on how they
then mostly blame the slowness of the render engines..)
You always need to know the lead action (a walk starts in the hip, for instance) and the weight
of your character. Study people and animals moving.
Acting requires psychological depth, you should not only move the character but also what
makes the character move - his ambitions, hopes, doubts and fears, the things he wants
to communicate and the things he wants to hide.. A lot of that is shown through body language,
you will need a basic understanding of the key principles.
It is what makes animation so interesting and rewarding, but it is also what makes it
such a slow process.
Good luck with it.
Thanks for all the replies! Sorry it took me so long to get back to the thread! I ended up purchasing both keymate and graphmate because I found the costs to be well worth experimenting. I still need a lot of work, and plan to hit the animation-fundamental books pretty hard.
Any suggestions on good keyframing or general animation reading (or preferably youtube) about making realistic-ish human movement?
For basic animation knowledge:
The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams
It was written for classical 2D animators but is widely used by 3D
animators as well, and it deals with the basic principles of animation.
These are the same for both cartoon and realistic animation, only
that in cartoon stuff everything is more exaggerated.
And these rules apply whether you do your animation with Maya,
Poser, DAZ Studio or with pencil on paper.
Link:
http://www.amazon.com/Animators-Survival-Kit-Principles-Classical/dp/086547897X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1397047377&sr=1-1&keywords=richard+williams
For reference I can recommend this site:
http://referencereference.com/index.html.
Thanks for posting this, I've never heard of if before and it looks great. I need to get a copy ASAP.
Thanks for posting this, I've never heard of if before and it looks great. I need to get a copy ASAP.
This is most certainly the conventional wisdom in 3d animation, and for the most part, I agree.
2d animations can use a freeze-hold pose and it works, but in 3d animation it somehow "feels" strange.
However, I have to say, I think it depends on the stylistic applications. I've seen the freeze-hold technique used before in 3d and the results were awesome.
Check out this cyberpunk trailer to see what I mean, the studio that produced it did an amazing job:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99qJGrPNLs&sns=em