Back after a *long* break. What first?
Crystal's Renders
Posts: 0
I stopped using Daz Studio way back when V4 was the new thing. I have a lots of stuff of that age, and even more for the V3 era. So I'd like to know:
1) Is there a path to use the V4 (M4, etc) clothing, skin, poses, etc. on the current generation of models?
2) As above, but V3.
3) As above, but V2 (not that important).
4) How easily will V5 stuff work with V6?
5) Where would you suggest I start in order to "get current." In other words, to be able to use most new content as it comes out.
Any help would be appreciated. I'm a bit overwhelmed at the changes since I've been gone!
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First...stop thinking in terms of V4/V5/V6...Vicky and Mike are no longer the base figures. Genesis and Genesis 2 are the bases. Vicky, Mike and everyone else are just morphs now. It does get kind of complicated in that there are characters that are for V6, but not G2F...morphs of morphs.
From 4th generation to Genesis..that's pretty easy, especially for skin textures, as Genesis 1 uses the 4th generation UVs, natively. And a fair portion of the wardrobe will autofit, reasonably well...dresses/skirts and shoes can be problematic. There are add-ons to get 3 generation items (clothing, etc) to Genesis...but skins are difficult.
From Genesis to Genesis 2...again, pretty much automatic, with somewhat better results on things like dresses, as there were no 'bone' changes made to the mesh. But it was split once again into distinct male/female shapes, so some stuff actually converts better to the guys than it does to the female shape (don't ask...it's got a lot to do with lack of polys in the right places).
So, as it stands, without a bunch of add-ons (GenX, Shape bundles, etc) a large amount of your 4th generation content will be usable, with fair to excellent results, on Genesis 1 (5th generation), but most of the new stuff coming out is 6th generation. Now, once you get something (except skin, because the 6th gen doesn't have the 4th gen UVs, by default) into the 5th gen 'fit', it should be movable to 6th...but you have to save the 4th gen converted stuff out as a new item, or it 'reverts' back to being 4th gen (not really, because the conversion doesn't actually change the original item, so if you don't save it, you'll be converting it every time you use it).
Textures and clothing will work out-of-the-box. Poses will work pretty well -- Handy Dandy mentioned above will fix the hands, the rest of the pose should work pretty well.
Genesis Starter Essentials, Genesis 2 Female Starter Essentials, Genesis 2 Male Starter Essentials, and Default Lights and Shaders for DAZ Studio all come free with DS -- most products for Genesis and Genesis 2 will work just with those. Some products use different UVsets than the ones which come free in the Starter Essentials -- the most important ones are V5 and M5 for Genesis 1 products and V6 and M6 for Genesis 2 products.
Gen 4 had 3 mesh shapes. V4, M4 and K4. All others in the Gen 4 line were morph sets for one of these three.
Genesis a true unimesh figure in that it can go from andro to male to female to child. All Gen 5 "figures" are morph sets for Genesis.
Genesis 2 returns to the gender split. You have the Genesis 2 Female(s) and the Genesis 2 Male(s). All Gen 6 females are morphs of the G2F base and all males are morphs of the G2M base.
By default, Genesis uses the V4 mapping so you can use V4 on it out of the box. Genesis lacks some of the eye surfaces that V4 had but this was corrected in G2F/M.
G2F uses V5 UV mapping by default and G2M uses M5 UV mapping by default. The Gen 5 and Gen 6 figures also have their own UV mapping and textures.
Pick up DS 4.6 Pro. It's still free. You get the Genesis base and the G2F and G2M base models as part of the content. The Genesis base model has the Genesis Evolution morphs. Head and body sold separately or as a bundle. G2F has head and body morphs and G2M has head and body morphs. Many characters you find in the V5/M5 and V6/M6 bundles require the head and/or body morphs to work properly.
There's probably a lot more but this is a start.
I definitely understand the "morphs of morphs" issue. There were add-ons to the elite morphs back when I was involved before.
Ok, so Genesis is 5th Generation and Genesis2 is 6th, correct? Deciding to change the nomenclature from Gen1, Gen2, Gen3, Gen4 was a bad idea. And changing it to a nomenclature that is *also* naturally abbreviated "Gen" was a *really* bad idea. ;)
Do the converters from G3 to Genesis have a batch mode, or do I have to do it one at a time? (I realize even if it does I'll still have to do fit and finish one by one.)
Is there a way to batch process converting from G5 to G6 and saving each item?
Basically, it'd be nice to be able to automate the process because then I can have the time spent doing it occur while I am sleeping, rather than either spend lots of time converting up front ( I have thousands of $ in Gen3 and hundreds in Gen4) or spending extra time converting in the middle of my workflow (ick if converting is quick, super ick if it's slow).
Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated.
(As an aside, there's real humor value in the fact the forums describe me as a new user along with noting I've been around since 2004. :) )
That last one is the easiest to answer. The site went through a complete revamp, with new store and new forums, driven by different software. One of the quirks of the new forum software was that although we all retained our start dates we became "New members" according to the forum.and got different ranks as we posted more (well apart from mods that is, we don't change our rank}. So once you have posted more than 25 times you will gain the status of simply being a member. Everyone started with a post count of zero when the new forums went live.
There are no convertors from Generation 3 to Genesis. At one time DAZ sold the Universal Texture Convertor that allowed users to convert textures for personal use. The UTC is was replaced by Texture Convertor 2. This one will convert between Generation 3 and Generation 4 textures if you have the correct plugins. They do not have a batch mode and are only for textures.
DAZ Studio does allow for UV swapping. Not completely sure but I think if you have either Generation 3 models or the Generation 3 iconic shapes for Genesis loaded into you DS library, you could swap the UV map between Genesis and V3. Mind you I'm not completely certain as I've never had need to do this. DS also has map transfer so you should be able to transfer Gen 3 textures to Genesis if you have the Generation 3 iconic shapes for Genesis.
If you want to use any of the older products from Generation 3 or 4, I would suggest you purchase the Genertion 3 and Generation 4 shapes for Genesis. They give you the autofit clones and I believe the UV swap.
http://www.daz3d.com/v4-and-m4-shapes-for-genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/david-3-for-genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/reby-sky-for-genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/gen-4-iconic-shapes-for-genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/gen-3-iconic-shapes-for-genesis
There are 4 products to make you life easier using G2F/M. If you want to use V4 textures on G2F and M4 textures on G2M, I recommend buying the
V4 to Genesis 2 Female(s)
http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-4-for-genesis-2-female
M4 to Genesis 2 Male(s)
http://www.daz3d.com/michael-4-for-genesis-2-male
And the auto convertors
http://www.daz3d.com/v4-skins-auto-converter-for-genesis-2-female-s
http://www.daz3d.com/michael-4-skins-auto-converter-for-genesis-2-male-s
Ok, it looks like the shape packs would work well for my needs, since it removes any need for processing my clothing collection. Am I right that they will only work with Genesis, or will the morphs also work with Genesis2?
It sounds like I'd be able to use Texture Converter 2 to convert my Gen3 textures to Gen4, then the auto converters to translate *those* to Genesis 2. Am I correct? If the answer to the first question is that those morphs won't work with Genesis2, will the auto-converters conversions work with Genesis? (I'm in an unfortunate situation if I can ultimately only use Gen3 clothes on Genesis models and only use Gen3 textures on Genesis 2 models!)
The optimal path for me would be to get all the Gen3 stuff working on Genesis2 models, since it would let me skip Genesis entirely. (The cost of Genesis2 plus the converters kills my current budget already! :) )
(Edited to remove question I posted elsewhere)
So I'm clear, is the standard to use "Gen2" to refer to V2, M2, etc. and G2 to refer to Genesis 2 stuff? Or are V2 and her ilk so far gone that the community has slipped into using Gen2 for Genesis 2?
Genesis Generation X2 is for transferring morphs, it doesn't affect clothing or textures.
The "V4 for Genesis 2 Female" and "M4 for Genesis 2 Male" provide the base shape, clothing autofit, and UV sets (texture maps) for the 4th Generation figures to the Genesis 2 figures. There is no direct transfer of 3rd Generation textures to Genesis or Genesis 2 because the way the maps are split up is too different.
The confusion over what "Gen" means is awkward. I used to use "Millennium 4" for the 4th Generation figures, but that didn't catch on, so I just spell out Genesis or Generation most of the time, except for things like G2M and G2F for the Genesis 2 figures, since the extra letter makes it clear.
Ok, ignoring textures and only worrying about clothing (I'm good at photoshop and can modify a few textures into a variety, but can't model in 3d at all):
Am I right in concluding there's no available way to use Gen3 clothing on Genesis2 models while keeping Genesis2 shape and morphs?
Is there a way to use Gen3 clothing on Genesis 2 models with their shape changed to Gen3?
The shapes files will let me use clothing from Gen3 on Genesis models by changing the Genesis models shape to Gen3 shapes. Is there a way to use Gen3 clothing on Genesis models while keeping Genesis shape and morphs?
What is my advantage as a user in using Genesis (or Genesis2) models changed to Gen3 shapes instead of using the Gen3 models? (In other words, if I can't use my Gen3 clothing on Genesis or Genesis2 models using the Genesis or Genesis2 shapes, is there any reason to pay for the "shapes" files, given that I already own the Gen3 models?)
(By "xxxx shapes" I mean "the shape of the actual xxx" model, not the "xxx shapes for".)
Thanks for bearing with me, and forgive me for being dense. :)
The nice thing about the way Genesis (1&2) works is that once the clothing is converted to it, it will, within reason, fit ALL of it (don't try a string bikini on the Gorilla...it's not pretty). Of course, there are limits...mostly in the geometry of the item being transferred. The 'shapes' are to set up the initial transfer.
You don't need to apply the shapes in order to use clothing from the corresponding figure. It makes sense to package the shapes with the autofit clones, but they are independent functions. So the A3 shape for Genesis 1 lets you use A3 clothing on any Genesis shape.
There isn't a direct autofit clone from 3rd generation to Genesis 2. You would need to either convert in two steps (3rd generation to Genesis 1, then Genesis 1 to Genesis 2) or create your own autofit clone.
Ok, I think my brain is finally catching up. :)
If I'm not worried about changing my Genesis or Genesis2 models to Gen3 or Gen4 shapes, and am only worried about using Gen3 clothing on Genesis models, is the DAZ Studio 4 Auto-Fit Tool enough for me?
What do I need for the second step of the process you mentioned - converting from Genesis1 to Genesis2? Is that Genesis 2 Male Clone for Genesis and Genesis 2 Female Clone for Genesis? Are there significant quality problems with chaining the conversion like this?
Ok, I think my brain is finally catching up. :)
If I'm not worried about changing my Genesis or Genesis2 models to Gen3 or Gen4 shapes, and am only worried about using Gen3 clothing on Genesis models, is the DAZ Studio 4 Auto-Fit Tool enough for me?
What do I need for the second step of the process you mentioned - converting from Genesis1 to Genesis2? Is that Genesis 2 Male Clone for Genesis and Genesis 2 Female Clone for Genesis? Are there significant quality problems with chaining the conversion like this?
Autofit requires the clones -- M4/V4/K4 to Genesis 1 is included with Genesis 1, and Genesis 1 to Genesis 2 is included with Genesis 2. You need the 3rd generation shapes to get the autofit clones for the 3rd generation figures to Genesis 1.
You don't need anything extra to autofit from Genesis 1 to Genesis 2. So you would autofit the 3rd generation clothing to Genesis 1, save it using Save As > Support Asset > Figure/Prop Asset, then load the saved version to autofit to Genesis 2.
So in order to get my Gen3 and Gen4 to work on Genesis 2 models I have to buy:
V4 and M4 Shapes for Genesis.
Gen 4 Iconic Shapes for Genesis
Gen 3 Iconic Shapes for Genesis
David 3 for Genesis
DAZ Studio 4 Auto-Fit Tool
Michael 5
Victoria 5
That's $189. $269 if I have to buy Stephanie 5 and David 5 as well. That's including either $80 or $160 for the Genesis1 models I will literally never use!
Seriously like you guys have gone out of your way to keep me from upgrading. :(
You doesn't need all of those unless he has shapes for each and wants to use them with M5 or V5 textures You just needs the shape for the character he wants to use, and the GenX/GenX2 plugin and its add-on for that character if he wants to transfer morphs
Lying to the G2 autofit and telling it a gen3 item was originally gen4 sometimes works. But it's pretty hit or miss. Sometimes scaling and tweaking will get things into position, but I don't know how well they'll work when posed. G1 autofit will do a pretty good job of most things if you have the legacy shapes package, which adds gen3 clones to the autofit source choices. Long skirts still tend to crumple around the bottom, but shoes sometimes do better from gen3 than gen4.
I think the issue is not strictly the shape, but the polygons used to make the shape, and there is bound to be a difference between figures with practically a decade of technology advances between them, even if the end result looks mighty simialr to a casual glance--or even a fairly close examination.
However, you aren't limited to just the one base when you download studio. Both the starter essentials for Genesis *and* G2 (M&F) come with it, so you've got both from the get-go. Admittedly, it's a potential large investment to get all the additions needed for building and porting older content over to the new bases, but it is *much* easier to put a ported item onto any of a number of *different* Genesis bases than it ever was to get, say, an item designed for V4 onto the Girl if there wasn't a unimesh fit available.
And there are a number of tutorials out there for building clones and using the Transfer Utility for various ports as well.
Apparently I'm still completely. Sorry for lashing out in frustration.
Rather than ask the general question, let me ask a specific one: If I want to be able to use M3 clothes on M6, and use M6 morphs with it, *without* being able to use M3's morphs, shape, or textures, what do I need to buy? I think a list is the best way to solve my stupid. ;)
You'd have to do it in two steps, since there isn't (at least yet) a Gen 3 clone for G2m - but all you would need in addition to the free bases and Michael 6 is the Michael 3 shape for Genesis. AutoFit the Michael 3 clothing to Genesis, save as a figure asset, then AutoFit that to Genesis 2 Male.
You will need the M3 shape package because, unless you want to make your own, that is what has the autofit clone in it.
Richard: And the DAZ Studio 4 Auto-Fit Tool, right? (Or does that just automate something that can be done manually without it?)
Ok. I'm pretty sure I understand. I have no problem paying for some extra files to convert old stuff to use with current files. I was just seriously bothered at the notion of paying for the Genesis1 models I'd never use, just to do the conversion.
Next question: since "M4/V4/K4 to Genesis 1 is included with Genesis 1", "Genesis 1 to Genesis 2 is included with Genesis 2", and " the starter essentials for Genesis *and* G2 (M&F) come with (Daz Studio)", am I right that I don't need to buy the M4 shapes to use M4 clothes on M6 with M6's morphs (again, if I don't need M4's shape, textures, or morphs), just the Autofit?
Part of my confusion is that A) I haven't really looked at the new version of Studio yet, since I'm waiting for 1300 files to install first and B) The store page describing the Genesis and Genesis2 starter essentials says only that it is an "impressive collection of characters, clothing, scenes and props" (and they each have the same description!) which is not even remotely helpful. :)
Autofit is now part of DS. No separate purchase required
Then its description, which reads "The Auto-Fit Tool is included with the DAZ Studio 4 installer and is installed automatically, but is not activated until you enter a valid serial number for it." is wrong? Why is it available for sale, then, given that DS is free?
I'm feeling less bad about having been confused. ;)
(Edit: What kind of moron uses "it's" as a possessive. Apparently, my kind.)
The AutoFit Tool is NOW Built into DAZ Studio. It is no longer needed as a purchase or as a separate Download.
Registering DAZ Studio to PRO registers all the FREE plugins. The Reg for DS4.0 Auto fit is NOT needed at all.
DS 4.6 Pro comes with Auto fit. Auto fit will convert Generation 4 clothing (V4/M4) clothing for use with Genesis. If you wish to convert clothing created for the Generation 3 line, you will need the shape for the Generation 3 figure the clothing was originally designed for (V3 or M3 or whichever figure).
If you notice, there is only one version of DS currently available. The Pro version. When DS 4 was released, the original aim was to have 5 different versions. A web only version, a free lite version, a for pay Standard version, a for pay Advanced version, and a for pay Pro version.
Standard was released first. It was free. A short while later, DAZ released the for pay Advanced and Pro versions. Auto fit was only included in the Pro version. If you had the Standard or Advanced version, Auto fit was a separate purchase. The same holds true for CCT's which are the DS version of DS3 rigging tools.
If you pick up the free version of DS4.x Pro, the only plugins you will have to purchase a license for are Decimator, and Animate 2. They are listed in the plugin list when you check the about plugins in the help menu. If you don't have a license for Animate 2, it becomes Animate lite. Decimator is just not available without a license.
Yes, long ago I paid for DS Pro. It went pro about the time that I realized that Poser wasn't headed in any interesting direction. I remember that a small group was quite upset when what they had paid for became free. I remember arguing with them that they should be happy there was more standardization and a larger community available to them. :)
Anyhow, I've figured out what I needed to and offer a heartfelt thank you to everyone who offered their help!
If you paid for Pro, download the update which is automatically added to your Product library. Your original DS4Pro for pay serial will work. Because you bought the Pro version, you will have access to Decimator.
Glad the rest has worked out for you.